Mayhew is about to do something real crazy.

[TrustMeIamRight]

How is it that Stafford hasn't made any of his guys better? I think he has but not to the extent of a Manning or Brees.

If Stafford made the players on the Lions better (specifically the WR position) -- we wouldn't have to trade up to get another elite talent at WR, we could fill holes elsewhere and draft a 3rd WR in a later round and Stafford could make that work.

If Detroit drafts Watkins at #2 -- they will have not one, but two #2 overall picks at WR, a #20 overall pick at TE, a #2 pick overall at RB and the lowest pick would be Golden Tate in the 2nd round. If your QB is making the players around him better -- you don't need to invest those type of picks and money in FA to surround your QB.

Brady is surrounded with a mish mash of WRs every year and he makes them better than they are -- His #1 WR last year was 7th round pick Julian Edelman. He was given an elite WR once and it was 30 year old Randy Moss, coming off a season where he had 550 yards and 3 tds. Over the next 3 years with NE, Moss had 47 touchdowns and topped 1000+ yards every season.

The top two WR for Drew Brees are Colston (7th round pick) and Kenny Stills (5th round pick). Jimmy Graham was a 3rd round pick.

Aaron Rodgers turned Greg Jennings, from a 2nd round pick from the MAC, into a legit #1 -- GB lets him walk, he goes to Minnesota and has his worst season since his rookie year (other than the year he was out injured most of the time). He turned James Jones a 3rd round pick from San Jose State into a guy who, I believe, led the NFL in touchdowns in 2012 with 14. GB let him walk this year. Jordy Nelson went from a guy who played sparingly for GB his 1st couple years, into a legit #1 WR and one of the better WRs in football after GB took him in the 2nd round. Randall Cobb is a guy, who, if he stays healthy, will turn into the next Wes Welker type, which is why GB lets WRs like James Jones and Greg Jennings walk away.

One thing I can admit -- Stafford makes the offensive line look better, as he gets rid of the ball quickly and doesn't take a lot of sacks.

Out of a curiosity -- what WR on the Lions do you think Stafford has made into a better player?

 

[black_magic]

If Stafford made the players on the Lions better (specifically the WR position) -- we wouldn't have to trade up to get another elite talent at WR, we could fill holes elsewhere and draft a 3rd WR in a later round and Stafford could make that work.

If Detroit drafts Watkins at #2 -- they will have not one, but two #2 overall picks at WR, a #20 overall pick at TE, a #2 pick overall at RB and the lowest pick would be Golden Tate in the 2nd round. If your QB is making the players around him better -- you don't need to invest those type of picks and money in FA to surround your QB.

Brady is surrounded with a mish mash of WRs every year and he makes them better than they are -- His #1 WR last year was 7th round pick Julian Edelman. He was given an elite WR once and it was 30 year old Randy Moss, coming off a season where he had 550 yards and 3 tds. Over the next 3 years with NE, Moss had 47 touchdowns and topped 1000+ yards every season.

The top two WR for Drew Brees are Colston (7th round pick) and Kenny Stills (5th round pick). Jimmy Graham was a 3rd round pick.

Aaron Rodgers turned Greg Jennings, from a 2nd round pick from the MAC, into a legit #1 -- GB lets him walk, he goes to Minnesota and has his worst season since his rookie year (other than the year he was out injured most of the time). He turned James Jones a 3rd round pick from San Jose State into a guy who, I believe, led the NFL in touchdowns in 2012 with 14. GB let him walk this year. Jordy Nelson went from a guy who played sparingly for GB his 1st couple years, into a legit #1 WR and one of the better WRs in football after GB took him in the 2nd round. Randall Cobb is a guy, who, if he stays healthy, will turn into the next Wes Welker type, which is why GB lets WRs like James Jones and Greg Jennings walk away.

One thing I can admit -- Stafford makes the offensive line look better, as he gets rid of the ball quickly and doesn't take a lot of sacks.

Out of a curiosity -- what WR on the Lions do you think Stafford has made into a better player?

I agree with you 100%

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Im not sure why anyone wouldn't like the idea of adding an elite talent to an offense that already has CJ.

Because we have to play defense at some point and when you get to the playoffs, you aren't going to be facing mediocre QBs or mediocre offenses.

That is why I said -- if Detroit's 'win now' mode consists of getting to the playoffs. By all means, draft Watkins and we can just try to outscore everyone. If Detroit is trying to get to the next level and become a team who can compete for the division on a yearly basis and possibly the Super Bowl -- we HAVE to get better on defense and to get better on defense, it doesn't mean trading away top picks to draft another weapon for the offense. Then trying to fill holes with mid-round picks, because what you will get is mid-round talent.

 

[lionstop1]

Valion,

The screen game is more about what Clemson runs as an offense rather than the talent of Watkins. Watkins can do it all, including the quick screens. Not all WRs can even perform well in the quick screen game. Watkins threatens the entire field and is a game breaker. Teams will have to game plan for him and be prepared for everything he brings to the table. Good route runner, fast, elusive, great hands, ect.

 

[Microwahevo]

Because we have to play defense at some point and when you get to the playoffs, you aren't going to be facing mediocre QBs or mediocre offenses.

Denver's D was worse than ours last year and they made a run to the SB. So it can happen. Now granted, their offense was better, but ours can get there too. Theirs was led by a future first ballot HOFer IMO. Ours is led by a QB that still has things to work on, but one that will be very good IMO.

And I agree our defense has holes, but not taking a talent like Watkins or Evans simply to take any old defensive player is asinine. If we stay put at 10, you take the BPA. It will fill a need and get us a bonafide young star-to-be. Whether that BPA is offense or defense I don't care. That's the difference between some of the posters here.

I have my favorites I'd like to see selected, but won't be upset if it goes a different direction.

 

[lionstop1]

What makes those other QBs good at this is their ability to diagnose plays and get the ball where it needs to go. There is such thing as making players better but I wont discredit guys going out there and performing well above expectations either. Using your logic, Teams can just draft any WR if they have a good QB and they will suddenly become elite players.

I think Nate, Pettigrew and Young did/does benefit from Stafford. The RBs too. All the other Wrs suck so there is no way they magically become great players. Ross came from GB and he's nothing. Young left. Broyles is always injured. Durham is very very average (Maybe Manning could turn him into Decker). Edwards couldnt catch shit but I'm sure Brady would have him at pro bowl level. Williams sucked ass.

So why are we even acting as if Stafford has had all the opportunity in the world to make these guys good players? He gives Pettigrew plenty of looks and he has put up decent numbers but also struggled with thw drops. Nate had a good year previous to this one and started the season strong before getting hurt. Fauria played well. Stafford has been decent.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

You just described my dream draft. Donald, Van Noy, Lattimer

 

[lionstop1]

TrustmeImright,

I just posted an article a little over a week ago that pretty much told you that the defense was better than given credit for. A major implosion on offense caused the team its short-comings the second half of the season. Go look at all the problems they had on offense. Our defense didnt get the turn-overs the team needed, but we should see an improvement there. I see a defense that needs a few players and a tweak here and there.

 

[lionstop1]

If you would like, I'll start giving reason why the Lions should take Gilbert if he's available too. My line of thinking though is that you take the best player you can get.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Denver's D was worse than ours last year and they made a run to the SB. So it can happen. Now granted, their offense was better, but ours can get there too. Theirs was led by a future first ballot HOFer IMO. Ours is led by a QB that still has things to work on, but one that will be very good IMO.

And I agree our defense has holes, but not taking a talent like Watkins or Evans simply to take any old defensive player is asinine. If we stay put at 10, you take the BPA. It will fill a need and get us a bonafide young star-to-be. Whether that BPA is offense or defense I don't care. That's the difference between some of the posters here.

I have my favorites I'd like to see selected, but won't be upset if it goes a different direction.

Take the best prospect in the top ten- don't try to use that pick to fill the biggest perceived need. Talent trumps need in the top ten, because that's the only time a team gets a shot at the top few elite prospects in the draft.

I'm not crazy about the idea of trading up, but Mayhew got burned a few years ago when he wasn't successful in trading up for Peterson and we instead landed Nick Fairley. Peterson is now a mega-star, and Fairley is headed into his fourth and final season in Detroit. I gotta wonder if that scenario is in his mind as he ponders the value of moving up for Watkins?

 

[tpaulus_2]

What makes those other QBs good at this is their ability to diagnose plays and get the ball where it needs to go. There is such thing as making players better but I wont discredit guys going out there and performing well above expectations either. Using your logic, Teams can just draft any WR if they have a good QB and they will suddenly become elite players.

I think Nate, Pettigrew and Young did/does benefit from Stafford. The RBs too. All the other Wrs suck so there is no way they magically become great players. Ross came from GB and he's nothing. Young left. Broyles is always injured. Durham is very very average (Maybe Manning could turn him into Decker). Edwards couldnt catch shit but I'm sure Brady would have him at pro bowl level. Williams sucked ass.

So why are we even acting as if Stafford has had all the opportunity in the world to make these guys good players? He gives Pettigrew plenty of looks and he has put up decent numbers but also struggled with thw drops. Nate had a good year previous to this one and started the season strong before getting hurt. Fauria played well. Stafford has been decent.

Idk about Ross being nothing. He tore it up out of the slot against GB and showed that he can be very dangerous in the open field with the ball in his hands. I think he'll settle in nicely as our #4 WR this year and our primary PR/KR. We need to add some more talent in the draft to fill that 3rd spot, but when we go 4-wide I see Ross coming in to be that 2nd slot WR. As it stands right now he is our primary slot guy, imo, unless I'm missing someone else? Broyles if he's healthy, but I don't expect him back anywhere near full speed this year...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I'm not a fan of Donald at all. If Mack is gone and they go defense, I'll take Gilbert. My top four choices are Watkins, Evans, Mack and Gilbert in that order.

I'm really not sure what to do with the DT position, but if they took Donald, that basically means Fairley is gone for sure. I would hold off on DT unless he was absolutely the BPA.

My ideal situation:

Go up and take Watkins and give up the 1st, 2nd and another future pick or the original 4th. The offense is set for years and the Lions could be fielding the best offense in the league. Come back in the 3rd and find that defender who slid- perferably a pass-rushing OLB, CB or DT. In the 4th, get the back-up QB, C and CB.

From this, Im looking at aquiring one of the elite prospects on offense, a situational pass-rusher (upgrade to Palmer) and my depth at spots that need it.

Gilbert "MAY become" special in a year or more than likely 2-3 years. Donald is instant production even as a 3rd DT. This kid is an elite DT prospect and has proven that already. Do you know who is second behind Mack in TFL's. Donald ! Why keep a player like Fairley long term when he hasn't been motivated previously and if he does become motivated this, why did it takes this long ? What, he plays hard this year to earn that 2nd contract then goes back to being what he has been since drafting him.

Detroit Lions Mock Draft: Instant Contributors Detroit Can Find in Every Round | Bleacher Report

 

[tpaulus_2]

Gilbert "MAY become" special in a year or more than likely 2-3 years. Donald is instant production even as a 3rd DT. This kid is an elite DT prospect and has proven that already. Do you know who is second behind Mack in TFL's. Donald ! Why keep a player like Fairley long term when he hasn't been motivated previously and if he does become motivated this, why did it takes this long ? What, he plays hard this year to earn that 2nd contract then goes back to being what he has been since drafting him.

Detroit Lions Mock Draft: Instant Contributors Detroit Can Find in Every Round | Bleacher Report

I'm with you there. Donald = the next Geno Atkins, imo. And having that next to Suh would be the unstoppable combo he and Fairley were supposed to be...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Take the best prospect in the top ten- don't try to use that pick to fill the biggest perceived need. Talent trumps need in the top ten, because that's the only time a team gets a shot at the top few elite prospects in the draft.

I'm not crazy about the idea of trading up, but Mayhew got burned a few years ago when he wasn't successful in trading up for Peterson and we instead landed Nick Fairley. Peterson is now a mega-star, and Fairley is headed into his fourth and final season in Detroit. I gotta wonder if that scenario is in his mind as he ponders the value of moving up for Watkins?

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I'm with you there. Donald = the next Geno Atkins, imo. And having that next to Suh would be the unstoppable combo he and Fairley were supposed to be...

Exactly.....

I don't believe there is another DT in this class that is like him given what he has showed as a college DT to date

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Idk about Ross being nothing. He tore it up out of the slot against GB and showed that he can be very dangerous in the open field with the ball in his hands. I think he'll settle in nicely as our #4 WR this year and our primary PR/KR. We need to add some more talent in the draft to fill that 3rd spot, but when we go 4-wide I see Ross coming in to be that 2nd slot WR. As it stands right now he is our primary slot guy, imo, unless I'm missing someone else? Broyles if he's healthy, but I don't expect him back anywhere near full speed this year...

Yep.

Broyles. Anyone counting on him coming back at all this year, yet alone at some point in time and expecting him to be healthy and as good as he was, is living in a dream. LeShoure wasn't the same as cutting, quickness, explosiveness after having out for more than a year, not to mention this is Broyles 3rd major injury in 3 years. It takes a toll.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

excerpt from article I had posted on another thread; 2014 NFL Draft: Best Fits for This Year's Top Defensive Playmakers | Bleacher Report

In 51 games, Aaron Donald racked up 66.5 tackles for a loss as an interior lineman. Only Khalil Mack had more tackles for loss than Donald in this draft class over the course of a career.
At 6'1", 285 pounds, he is undersized as a defensive tackle, but he uses his frame to be quicker than the slow, lumbering guards and centers who are often assigned to block him. He also has tremendous functional strength, which allows him to drive blockers back and keep them off guard.
Today’s NFL has proved that undersized interior linemen can be successful.

 

[lionstop1]

I like Ross as the 4th but I'm not super high on him to the point where I dont think you can upgrade over him. He had plenty of opportunity to show what he had and didn't do much besides special teams.

 

[lionstop1]

I dont like Donald's measurables. He might get chewed up in the run game. I do know that he's a good player though and one of the top linemen but I think 10 is a little high.

 

[Rollingthndr]

I'm with you there. Donald = the next Geno Atkins, imo. And having that next to Suh would be the unstoppable combo he and Fairley were supposed to be...

I would rather have Clinton-Dix or Pryor than Donald.