Legit rankings without preseason ranking consideration

[dcZONAfan]

yup i'm bengcord3, i spend most of my time there but just found out about this site. i think i will enjoy talking to other fans rather than just only UA fans

 

[CatsTopPac]

yup i'm bengcord3, i spend most of my time there but just found out about this site. i think i will enjoy talking to other fans rather than just only UA fans

Yeah, PGU has a lot to offer, but this site (and especially the CBB general boards) have a lot of good stuff on the rest of CBB. Were you ever on the ESPN boards before they fucked it up? A few of us have picked up and moved here for game boards and to talk AZ BBall. It's a good spot. Wish the Pac was more represented on here though. No Oregon, CU, or other fans (except ASU) are on here. But there are enough to get some good convos going. Welcome, saw you post on the AZ/UCLA board. It's good to hash stuff out without all of the extra politics on PGU.

 

[dcZONAfan]

haha ya I have a soft spot for PGU since I was there from the beginning, but there are a LOT of tards. I enjoy it for the community as much as anything, and obviously with the PF there is nothing like it in terms of inside info. are you a private forum member?

i was never consistently on ESPN boards because there seemed like a never-ending amount of idiots and trolls so i always avoided it. glad to find a place like this where i can talk about stuff like B10 bball and ACC since I live on the east coast and watch a lot of that. too bad there aren't more pac fans, but i'm not that surprised. probably for the best, we would just end up with Oregon fans starting threads like "we are going undefeated this year!"

 

[john01992]

dcZonafan, Just to bring you up to speed on what young Johnny is referring to:

I too think that what ESPN reports on, and the nature of their coverage reflects whatever degree of ECB. But when it comes to quantitative markers, I trust them, and I'll tell you why. They amass the data without bias. And it's usually in those instances that there is no bias; they don't know who is going to come out on top when they set the criteria. For example, if we want to talk about best programs ever; AZ is not in the top ten. But when ESPN did their best 50 in the last 50, AZ was #10. I subscribe to that. In 2008, they had a top 10 since 1985, and AZ was #5. I think that was pretty accurate also. And the BPI is set without any consideration of regional loyalty. They put in the data, and the rankings come out.

Young Johnny and I were discussing the difference between the RPI and BPI. Naturally, I couldn't give a shit about either for the most part. But I do think that for anyone who does care, the BPI is probably about as accurate a system as there is. I've thought that since it came out, based on their methodology, and the scope of data included. It has picked the champions in both years of its existance, and has been more accurate on the Final Four than the RPI. That's the proof for me.

But Johnny's beef with AZ is in the fact that he desperately obsesses over the rankings and how Cuse is not #1. I wasted some time trying to tell him how little rankings matter, how AZ is going to be #1 until they lose, and how there are a handful of teams that are all in the top tier. If it wasn't "Cuse is #1", then he didn't want to hear it. Since then, he has had some irrational hard-on for AZ, and he takes every opportunity to twist his chosen facts to show how AZ is garbage and how Cuse is the best thing ever. So I'm done with him. I think Cuse is a great team, and so are OSU and Wisky. Any of them could be the top team right now, and honestly, none of it matters, and no one gives a shit, except for him. So just know all that going in.

the problem with the notion that espn doesnt have a bias in stats is completely wrong because they do have a bias here.

i mean think about it. espn makes these formula's again & again and act like they are fixing major flaws ==> and then they refuse to publish the formula's because as they put it........"we are the savior of sports knowledge and you need us." they act like QBR is the most advanced metric ever created and are determined to make it the go to stat.

these systems were never about helping the fans but espn trying to pull a total gamechanger on stats, info, & metric systems and prevent CBSsports, foxsports, & SI from having what ESPN pushes as the best ranking systems. for a billion dollar empire that has spent so much time and effort on this crap ==> for someone to say there is not a hidden agenda behind it is just absurd.

the size of espn does 2 things
1) it makes them desperate to maintain their incredible market share
2) it allows them to think that they can control the market and get away with anything

as large as ESPN is they are not perfect, and these ranking systems is one of the rare flaws that they have, but it wouldnt be so bad if they didnt try so hard to force it on sports fans with their TV/online influence.

 

[john01992]

haha ya I have a soft spot for PGU since I was there from the beginning, but there are a LOT of tards. I enjoy it for the community as much as anything, and obviously with the PF there is nothing like it in terms of inside info. are you a private forum member?

i was never consistently on ESPN boards because there seemed like a never-ending amount of idiots and trolls so i always avoided it. glad to find a place like this where i can talk about stuff like B10 bball and ACC since I live on the east coast and watch a lot of that. too bad there aren't more pac fans, but i'm not that surprised. probably for the best, we would just end up with Oregon fans starting threads like "we are going undefeated this year!"

this is the most pac12 heavy board that I have seen in a long time. all the good BB boards that i come across have very little p12 presence.

 

[CatsTopPac]

haha ya I have a soft spot for PGU since I was there from the beginning, but there are a LOT of tards. I enjoy it for the community as much as anything, and obviously with the PF there is nothing like it in terms of inside info. are you a private forum member?

i was never consistently on ESPN boards because there seemed like a never-ending amount of idiots and trolls so i always avoided it. glad to find a place like this where i can talk about stuff like B10 bball and ACC since I live on the east coast and watch a lot of that. too bad there aren't more pac fans, but i'm not that surprised. probably for the best, we would just end up with Oregon fans starting threads like "we are going undefeated this year!"

I'm not a PF member. I keep hearing that it's the shit, and I believe it. I just think that it all ends up happening anyway, so I can't justify paying for it. I'm also a cheap-ass though. I've been following PGU for years, but hadn't really had time to get on much. I started an account like 5 years ago, but never posted, and lost my login info. I started another one when I got done with grad school and moved to San Antonio because I had more time on my hands, so I've been posting more, and playing pickem. Baycat was a mainstay on the ESPN boards, and so we've talked a lot of AZ Ball over the years. I like the analyses by him and the others. That's when I learn the most from the site. I don't really pay too much attention to recruiting until they sign, because it's always so unpredictable.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Lmao you still think "factored" means includes.

an article THAT YOU POSTED has its intro describing how they want to deemphasize YAC and throughout the article says the whole point of the system is taking away the value of YAC and yet you claim that it uses YAC.

Well, yes, it means exactly that. Your problem is you can't differentiate between "includes" and "includes the way I want it to be included" It isn't that YAC isn't included, as ESPN clearly states that it is. Your problem (or rather the problem of the posters on the NFL thread, who's opinions you co-opted) is that YAC yards aren't valued as much as "air" yards. Do you know what deemphasizing means? It means it is still included, but at a decreased value. The key point there is that it is included.

I suspect if you bothered to actually try to form your own opinions instead of just parroting what you read in other threads and on other boards, you might have realized by now what your mistake was. But right now your unable to make the distinction between using YAC yards and using YAC yards in a specific manner because you don't really know how they should be used or why they should be used. You just read some chowderhead on anther thread spouting off about it, you liked the way he spouted off about it and you decided you'd try to be cool like him and spout off about it too.

But if you said you didn't like the way that the QBR handles YAC yards, I wouldn't be telling you that you're wrong. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how uninformed and off base it may be. Just like you're entitled to your opinion about the BPI factoring in player injuries. If you don't like it for that reason, you're entitled to that opinion. Hell you can think it makes the BPI less accurate, even though that opinion has no basis in reality whatsoever.

But to claim that the QBR doesn't include YAC yards, is patently, definitively, demonstrably false. You are wrong by every definition of the word.

 

[dcZONAfan]

I'm not a PF member. I keep hearing that it's the shit, and I believe it. I just think that it all ends up happening anyway, so I can't justify paying for it. I'm also a cheap-ass though. I've been following PGU for years, but hadn't really had time to get on much. I started an account like 5 years ago, but never posted, and lost my login info. I started another one when I got done with grad school and moved to San Antonio because I had more time on my hands, so I've been posting more, and playing pickem. Baycat was a mainstay on the ESPN boards, and so we've talked a lot of AZ Ball over the years. I like the analyses by him and the others. That's when I learn the most from the site. I don't really pay too much attention to recruiting until they sign, because it's always so unpredictable.

the recruiting is one of my favorite parts of college bball (because it is SO much more predictable than college football). also, it is amazing how much being in the PF means when it comes to actually knowing if somebody is coming. with stanley we knew about 2 months early, it was amazing. Same with AG and RHJ. but it's not just the recruiting that is cool about the PF, it's little things like who is excelling in practice and why that makes it like nothing else on the web.

what is your PGU name?

 

[CatsTopPac]

the problem with the notion that espn doesnt have a bias in stats is completely wrong because they do have a bias here.

i mean think about it. espn makes these formula's again & again and act like they are fixing major flaws ==> and then they refuse to publish the formula's because as they put it........"we are the savior of sports knowledge and you need us." they act like QBR is the most advanced metric ever created and are determined to make it the go to stat.

these systems were never about helping the fans but espn trying to pull a total gamechanger on stats, info, & metric systems and prevent CBSsports, foxsports, & SI from having what ESPN pushes as the best ranking systems. for a billion dollar empire that has spent so much time and effort on this crap ==> for someone to say there is not a hidden agenda behind it is just absurd.

the size of espn does 2 things
1) it makes them desperate to maintain their incredible market share
2) it allows them to think that they can control the market and get away with anything

as large as ESPN is they are not perfect, and these ranking systems is one of the rare flaws that they have, but it wouldnt be so bad if they didnt try so hard to force it on sports fans with their TV/online influence.

Don't get me wrong, I have some tangible problems with ESPN. Try living on the West Coast and get respect for your squad among the east coast teams. I've gotten over it, but it still affect recruits, etc. a little but, because they want the air time. And with polling, seeding, and the media, not getting people who stay up to watch P12 games has an affect, even if west coasters tend to blow it out of proportion.

I agree that there is an element of ESPN trying to come up with a new system, but I don't exactly see them shoving it down people's throats. It's not like they are only referring to it, like the US shunning the metric system or anything. They also have brought in a lot more of Kenpom and Sagarin. I think it has more to do with them just wanting additional ways to rate teams.

Obviously though, a lot of the ESPN traffic online (especially during the offseason) is to do the all-time rankings ,etc. So I'll give you that. But it's not tailored to a particular region. I don't think that they devise a plan to make a certain region look better in the BPI. They can do that enough as it is on their telecasts. The BPI is about as objective as the RPI. THey have their criteria, and they just imput the data. There is no conspiracy.

 

[CatsTopPac]

the recruiting is one of my favorite parts of college bball (because it is SO much more predictable than college football). also, it is amazing how much being in the PF means when it comes to actually knowing if somebody is coming. with stanley we knew about 2 months early, it was amazing. Same with AG and RHJ. but it's not just the recruiting that is cool about the PF, it's little things like who is excelling in practice and why that makes it like nothing else on the web.

what is your PGU name?

It's the same name and pic: CatsTopPac with the LA and the Block A.

Hahaha, the good news is that the PF members can never keep their traps shut. Like they need to spill their guts. So I find out about the locked-in recruits anyway.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

i mean think about it. espn makes these formula's again & again and act like they are fixing major flaws ==> and then they refuse to publish the formula's because as they put it........
"we are the savior of sports knowledge and you need us." [citation needed]

I'd like a source on that. I'd also like to point out that most of the other major rating systems for college basketball outside of the RPI don't publish their formulas, and try to promote their formula as the next big thing. See KenPom, Sagarin, et al.

 

[dcZONAfan]

It's the same name and pic: CatsTopPac with the LA and the Block A.

Hahaha, the good news is that the PF members can never keep their traps shut. Like they need to spill their guts. So I find out about the locked-in recruits anyway.

haha yea i have heard that happens, i never say anything but I am not surprised that others can't keep it to themselves. i guess I have seen CatsTopPac at PGU

 

[john01992]

Don't get me wrong, I have some tangible problems with ESPN. Try living on the West Coast and get respect for your squad among the east coast teams. I've gotten over it, but it still affect recruits, etc. a little but, because they want the air time. And with polling, seeding, and the media, not getting people who stay up to watch P12 games has an affect, even if west coasters tend to blow it out of proportion.

I agree that there is an element of ESPN trying to come up with a new system, but I don't exactly see them shoving it down people's throats. It's not like they are only referring to it, like the US shunning the metric system or anything. They also have brought in a lot more of Kenpom and Sagarin. I think it has more to do with them just wanting additional ways to rate teams.

Obviously though, a lot of the ESPN traffic online (especially during the offseason) is to do the all-time rankings ,etc. So I'll give you that. But it's not tailored to a particular region. I don't think that they devise a plan to make a certain region look better in the BPI. They can do that enough as it is on their telecasts. The BPI is about as objective as the RPI. THey have their criteria, and they just imput the data. There is no conspiracy.

im not saying that the BPI is designed to prop up certain teams, ESPN is only going to put their name on something if its as good as possible. espn will never put a bad quality product out there. however just because its good doesnt mean its perfect. however espn doesnt publish their formula and their anchors/writers use BPI/QBR when no one outside of espn does. and thats where the major problem occurs.

a system IMO should become popular because all the fans accept it and writers/anchors use it because they think it works. with QBR/BPI is being pushed exclusively by espn with very little fan support to it.

and yeah i get it for zona fans with the ESPN/west coast bias. syracuse fans have similar complaints that ESPN is screwing us because we are one of the top journalism schools and feel that there is some kind of bias against us. I am 50/50 on that being true/false but the crap we get about our OOC is completely unwarranted ==> so there might be some truth to that.

 

[CatsTopPac]

You on a pickem team?

 

[dcZONAfan]

yup, card sharks. first time doing it in like 5 years

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

im not saying that the BPI is designed to prop up certain teams, ESPN is only going to put their name on something if its as good as possible. espn will never put a bad quality product out there. however just because its good doesnt mean its perfect. however espn doesnt publish their formula and their anchors/writers use BPI/QBR when no one outside of espn does. and thats where the major problem occurs.

1) It's not going to be perfect. No statistical model is going to be perfect. Expecting perfection is lunacy.
2) Do you know what "proprietary" means? That means the BPI belongs to ESPN. It could accurately pick and seed every single team in the next 10 tournaments, and accurately pick the winners of every single game and CBS, FOX and SI, would still never use it. If you don't understand that, there is simply no helping you.

a system IMO should become popular because all the fans accept it and writers/anchors use it because they think it works. with QBR/BPI is being pushed exclusively by espn with very little fan support to it.

Fans? Oh, you mean like people in this thread? Are we fans? I seem to recall some earlier acceptance of the BPI in this thread. Maybe you missed that part.

and yeah i get it for zona fans with the ESPN/west coast bias. syracuse fans have similar complaints that ESPN is screwing us because we are one of the top journalism schools and feel that there is some kind of bias against us. I am 50/50 on that being true/false but the crap we get about our OOC is completely unwarranted ==> so there might be some truth to that.

Cuse's OOC schedule has been garbage for ages. It's significantly better this year, and it was still pretty poor. They'll get tested plenty in ACC conference play (as they always did in the BE) but the complaints about Cuse's OOC schedule are still valid. They won't mean anything by the end of the season, but that doesn't make them any less true.

 

[john01992]

1) It's not going to be perfect. No statistical model is going to be perfect. Expecting perfection is lunacy.
2) Do you know what "proprietary" means? That means the BPI belongs to ESPN. It could accurately pick and seed every single team in the next 10 tournaments, and accurately pick the winners of every single game and CBS, FOX and SI, would still never use it. If you don't understand that, there is simply no helping you.



Fans? Oh, you mean like people in this thread? Are we fans? I seem to recall some earlier acceptance of the BPI in this thread. Maybe you missed that part.



Cuse's OOC schedule has been garbage for ages. It's significantly better this year, and it was still pretty poor. They'll get tested plenty in ACC conference play (as they always did in the BE) but the complaints about Cuse's OOC schedule are still valid. They won't mean anything by the end of the season, but that doesn't make them any less true.

cuse doesnt leave the state of new york,
MSG is a de facto home game
Cuse doesnt play any true road games
^^^^
all that BS.

we have played florida in tampa, kansas in kansas city, SDSU in san diego and had all those games count as neutral court by ESPN because they are technically neutral court. but when we play at MSG all of the sudden technicality goes out the window and MSG counts as a home game for us. hell we have played an away game at NC state once and people still gave us crap about it not being a true road game because syracuse fans showed up in large numbers to that game.

3x in the last 4 years SU played out of state in november and yet we still get crap about not leaving the state of new york.

and your "we have a weak ooc schedule" just shows how much misinformation there is about syracuse out there thanks to espn.

did you know that......
syracuse has played a team OOC that was ranked in the top 10 at game time 5x in the last 5 years? and no those matchups were not all compacted into a single year. syracuse consistently plays a top 10 team ooc each year. and guess what else? syracuse has played a team ooc that was in the top 25 at gametime a total of 11 times in the last 6 years. i doubt you knew that ==> and it just goes to show how big of a misconception our OOC is.

and who the hell cares about our OOC and why is it an issue? we have always been towards the top of sos come seasons end anyways. we played louisville & gtown 3x each last year. wanna know what their rankings were at gametime? 1, 11, 10, 5, 5, 4. <== does duke, kentucky, unc, or IU come close to playing a slate like that in-conference? nope.....but you dont see cuse fans calling out others conference schedules

and at the end of the day syracuse has major historic geographic & financial implications that severely restrict us with our scheduling. these are issue's that arise because we are located in the northeast, play in a football stadium, and the regional powerhouse historically. these are issue's that other BB programs dont have to deal with.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

cuse doesnt leave the state of new york,
MSG is a de facto home game
Cuse doesnt play any true road games
^^^^
all that BS.

Hyperbole is more like it.

we have played florida in tampa, kansas in kansas city, SDSU in san diego and had all those games count as neutral court by ESPN because they are technically neutral court. but when we play at MSG all of the sudden technicality goes out the window and MSG counts as a home game for us. hell we have played an away game at NC state once and people still gave us crap about it not being a true road game because syracuse fans showed up in large numbers to that game.

Some people are idiots. You have to look past that. Just because some idiots like to exaggerate about how bad your OOC schedule is, doesn't mean that it compares favorably to other programs.

3x in the last 4 years SU played out of state in november and yet we still get crap about not leaving the state of new york.

and your "we have a weak ooc schedule" just shows how much misinformation there is about syracuse out there thanks to espn.

did you know that......
syracuse has played a team OOC that was ranked in the top 10 at game time 5x in the last 5 years? and no those matchups were not all compacted into a single year. syracuse consistently plays a top 10 team ooc each year. and guess what else? syracuse has played a team ooc that was in the top 25 at gametime a total of 11 times in the last 6 years. i doubt you knew that ==> and it just goes to show how big of a misconception our OOC is.

and who the hell cares about our OOC and why is it an issue? we have always been towards the top of sos come seasons end anyways. we played louisville & gtown 3x each last year. wanna know what their rankings were at gametime? 1, 11, 10, 5, 5, 4. <== does duke, kentucky, unc, or IU come close to playing a slate like that in-conference? nope.....but you dont see cuse fans calling out others conference schedules

Actually, yes, I do see Cuse fans calling out other teams for their conference schedules. Not all of them, but I've certainly witnessed it before.

and at the end of the day syracuse has major historic geographic & financial implications that severely restrict us with our scheduling. these are issue's that arise because we are located in the northeast, play in a football stadium, and the regional powerhouse historically. these are issue's that other BB programs dont have to deal with.

Ahhh... cop outs.

Let's actually look at Cuse's OOC from the last few years.

2012
#20 SDSU in San Diego.
@ Arkansas
Temple in MSG

So in 13 games you left the state of NY twice, and once was forced because of conference affiliation (BE/SEC challenge) and played 1 ranked team.

2011
Virginia Tech at MSG
Stanford at MSG
#10 Florida at home

So in 13 games you left the state of NY zero times, and played one ranked opponent that was forced because of conference affiliation (BE/SEC challenge)

2010
Michigan in Atlantic City
GT in Atlantic City
#7 Michigan State in MSG.

So in 13 games you left the state of NY twice (one trip really... all the way to NJ) and played one ranked opponent in MSG.

Gee, I can't imagine why Syracuse gets the reputation of scheduling soft OOC, and not leaving NY.

Let's compare that to Duke, MSU and UK over the same period.

Same period, MSU played NINE ranked teams and left the state of Michigan THIRTEEN times.
Same period, Duke played EIGHT ranked teams and left the state of North Carolina FOURTEEN times.
Same period, UK played EIGHT ranked teams and left the Commonwealth of Kentucky FIFTEEN times.
Same period, KU played SIX ranked teams and left the state of Kansas FIFTEEN times.

Even if you want to say that UK has a week conference schedule and say they have to schedule big in the OOC, Duke, MSU and KU certainly don't have that trouble, yet they manage to get out of their respective states and play ranked teams. Hell, Kansas got completely screwed over in 2010 when every good team they scheduled fell apart before they played.

Even if you take away Kansas games played in Missouri, and "forced" games from conference challenges, the other top tier programs blow Syracuse out of the water.

So, like I said, it doesn't matter that Syracuse doesn't schedule big in their OOC, but the criticisms are absolutely valid. Want me to dig up stats for Ohio State, or Florida, or UNC to see how they stack up against Syracuse? I think you'll find it's more of the same.

 

[john01992]

Hyperbole is more like it.



Some people are idiots. You have to look past that. Just because some idiots like to exaggerate about how bad your OOC schedule is, doesn't mean that it compares favorably to other programs.



Actually, yes, I do see Cuse fans calling out other teams for their conference schedules. Not all of them, but I've certainly witnessed it before.



Ahhh... cop outs.

Let's actually look at Cuse's OOC from the last few years.

2012
#20 SDSU in San Diego.
@ Arkansas
Temple in MSG

So in 13 games you left the state of NY twice, and once was forced because of conference affiliation (BE/SEC challenge) and played 1 ranked team.

2011
Virginia Tech at MSG
Stanford at MSG
#10 Florida at home

So in 13 games you left the state of NY zero times, and played one ranked opponent that was forced because of conference affiliation (BE/SEC challenge)

2010
Michigan in Atlantic City
GT in Atlantic City
#7 Michigan State in MSG.

So in 13 games you left the state of NY twice (one trip really... all the way to NJ) and played one ranked opponent in MSG.

Gee, I can't imagine why Syracuse gets the reputation of scheduling soft OOC, and not leaving NY.

Let's compare that to Duke, MSU and UK over the same period.

Same period, MSU played NINE ranked teams and left the state of Michigan THIRTEEN times.
Same period, Duke played EIGHT ranked teams and left the state of North Carolina FOURTEEN times.
Same period, UK played EIGHT ranked teams and left the Commonwealth of Kentucky FIFTEEN times.
Same period, KU played SIX ranked teams and left the state of Kansas FIFTEEN times.

Even if you want to say that UK has a week conference schedule and say they have to schedule big in the OOC, Duke, MSU and KU certainly don't have that trouble, yet they manage to get out of their respective states and play ranked teams. Hell, Kansas got completely screwed over in 2010 when every good team they scheduled fell apart before they played.

Even if you take away Kansas games played in Missouri, and "forced" games from conference challenges, the other top tier programs blow Syracuse out of the water.

So, like I said, it doesn't matter that Syracuse doesn't schedule big in their OOC, but the criticisms are absolutely valid. Want me to dig up stats for Ohio State, or Florida, or UNC to see how they stack up against Syracuse? I think you'll find it's more of the same.

and heres where that "dont play outside the state of new york Bullcrap comes in.

syracuse to NYC is easily 4.5 hrs usually 5 in the winter. kentucky "leaves the state of kentucky" but you wanna know where they go? chicago (5.5 hrs), south bend (5 hrs) and bloomington (3 hrs.) thats why this "not leaving the state of New York is bull crap. does crossing a border magically change travel times that much? duke, unc, kentucky etc. are always taking trips to MSG for the recruiting so why the fuck shouldnt the orange cash in on that too?

and then theres the aspects that syracuse deals with that UNC, duke etc. dont have to deal with.

Syracuse makes more money per a single home BB game than any other school. they have to schedule BB games with a football mindset. They have a lot more to lose for each home game they give up than your typical program.

The northeast never developed a true football conference. that means for syracuse we have always had to cycle rivals. syracuse's biggest rival before the big east was St. Bonaventure. then Gtown, then uconn, and towards the end ville was starting to replace uconn as our go to rival. wanna know who our football rivals were in the past? colgate & cornell. because those two schools fell off the map in FB syracuse basketball now has to deal with the burden of maintaining those rivalries/historical connections. and thats not all......

there are 22 division 1 schools in the state of NY, only 3 of them are FBS. unlike duke unc & UK who have been playing with the same schools set of power schools since the 20s & 30s. syracuse was stuck playing medium level schools. why these schools never developed is because the NE is loaded with privates who used their political power to block land grants from forming.

22 d1 schools and SU who was the regional athletic power for decades was stuck right in the middle of it all and built rivalries/connections with all these schools. thats how college athletics work, you have the small schools get propped up by the big schools otherwise fans get pissed, politicians get angry and the system starts to fall apart. 22 d1 schools in the state of NY all of which look to SU. theres no other major athletic power in NY to take the burden off us. kentucky has 6 d1 schools total, Indiana has 8 d1 schools total 3 of which are power schools. (arizona has 3, 2 of which are in the p12) <== do you see a problem starting to emerge here?

thats why we continue to play schools like fordham canisus hofstra siena etc. on such a frequent basis. look at duke/unc this year they each played 2 NC teams ooc. why? because they each take the burden of propping up the little schools off each other. personally i think its stupid that syracuse played 6 New York teams this year. but thats the result of 80 years of building bonds with regional schools.

oh and its funny how you failed to mention 2009. didnt wanna mention that we played #13 #6 & #10 OOC that year plus a top 10 big east team near the start of conference play plus 4 top big east teams while they were in the top 10 <== just admit that you are two faced and use selective stats to make a point.

or 2008 where we played 3 ranked teams OOC and had a big east slate that consisted of #5, #3, #13, #12, #1, #9, #4, #12, #13. yeah ==> syracuse played 16 matchups against teams ranked 13th or higher in a 2 yr period in BE play. to look back on the total number of ranked opponents at 13 or higher that duke/unc has played you have to go from last year all the way back to 2008 to get to 16. for kentucky all the way to 2007.

and you have the balls to even criticize syracuse's schedule

 

[john01992]

this years ooc for SU

5 games ==> NY schools
3 games ==> maui
1 game ==> b10/acc challenge
2 games ==> former BE rivals
2 games==> random teams

SU is truly stretching its ooc to the limits as it stands now and it only gets more chaotic next year with gtown joining the rotation as a permanent ooc rival