Legit rankings without preseason ranking consideration

[MI Nightmare]

It's good to see the cbb boards start to get some interest. I'm wearing out my welcome on the cfb pages.

Some of those posters get diaper rash over the simplest of things.

Pure entertainment.

 

[john01992]

Actually it very clearly stats that it factors in YAC yards. You can try and twist it any way you like, but the formula for QBR does in fact factor in YAC yards regardless of how you may try and twist it. Just like the mascot issue that you were clearly wrong about, and too damn stubborn to admit, despite Syracuse's own web site proving you wrong, this is just another instance of the same thing.

The problem here is that you don't like how the QBR factors in YAC yards, not that it doesn't include YAC yards. YAC yards are a factor, just not in the way that you'd like. As is often the case you're wrong and just too stubborn to admit it.

To get more to the point of the discussion at hand, you clearly have some bias against ESPN and are just trying to invent excuses not to like their stuff, which is fine, but you could at least admit it instead of trying to act like you have some logical reason to dislike them. It's okay to have an emotional response to something instead of a rational one, buddy. Sure it's a little girlish, but it happens sometimes. It's okay to let your feelings out.

If you want to talk stats, and what is included, it would help a lot if you understood why things are done the way the are (you clearly don't) so you're basically just adding a bunch of noise to the conversation. (but that's pretty typical of your trolling MO isn't it?)

talk about being two faced. you are as stubborn as it gets. plus you have quite a bit of stupidity attached to yourself which is a very annoying combo to deal with.

you are still wrong on the citrus thing. and it is perfectly relevant of your stupidity/stubbornness. you were too stupid to understand that the full definition of the term that syracuse uses to define what its mascot is comes to the conclusion that it is not a citrus. but just because you see "citrus" in that line you automatically assume that it is a citrus. and then you go on to show that you are too stubborn to admit your mistake and keep pushing the issue. I have even posted dictionary.com definitions of every word in that line just so you can understand the true meaning of those big words that you are not used to hearing just so you can understand the full meaning of it and yet you still wont acknowledge that you were wrong on that. and then you have the balls to call me stubborn?

nowhere in the ESPN article do they say that they use YAC. and of course in typical ESPN fashion we dont know for sure because they wont publish their formula. and fucken excuse you........

my argument still stands regardless of if they use YAC even a tiny bit. at this point you are just bringing up a technicality which is a tactic that only losers in an argument revert to.

you say i have a bias against ESPN? well for the second time in the same year they came out with a bad system that they created and tried to use it as a replacement for formula's that have existed for a long time. despite the objections to these formula's from fans ESPN kept on acting like they were perfect and refused to publish them. when the same company keeps pulling this shit ==> yeah I think its completely fair to say "I dont trust and ESPN developed system"

is hating a certain brand because they constantly put out bad products mean that I have a bias against them?

is hating the texas longhorns because they think they are the center of the universe, have a huge ego, and always think that the rest of the b12 has to adapt to what they want to do mean i have a bias against them?

the answer to both questions is yes. and I dont know about you but I think it is more than fair to have a bias against them because they do certain things. and truth be told ==> they deserve it.

for the record you are trying to defend QBR, a system that is extremely disliked and very controversial. on NFL message boards i tend to see 3 comments against it for every 1 comment that i see that supports it.

now im not sure what SportsHoopla's policy is with posting links to other message boards, but I am sure that wont have a problem with a major site like reddit. and take a look for yourself how much the fans hate it.

Why is ESPN pushing QBR so much? : nfl

or just look at SportsHoopla's take on it......
http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/...ssion/116192-just-fyi-qbr-100%-bull-shit.html

 

[kramer1]

It's time for UC to get some freakin national respect, damnit.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

talk about being two faced. you are as stubborn as it gets. plus you have quite a bit of stupidity attached to yourself which is a very annoying combo to deal with.

you are still wrong on the citrus thing. and it is perfectly relevant of your stupidity/stubbornness. you were too stupid to understand that the full definition of the term that syracuse uses to define what its mascot is comes to the conclusion that it is not a citrus. but just because you see "citrus" in that line you automatically assume that it is a citrus. and then you go on to show that you are too stubborn to admit your mistake and keep pushing the issue. I have even posted dictionary.com definitions of every word in that line just so you can understand the true meaning of those big words that you are not used to hearing just so you can understand the full meaning of it and yet you still wont acknowledge that you were wrong on that. and then you have the balls to call me stubborn?

Well yes... because you are stubborn. You asserted that the Syracuse Mascot wasn't a fruit. Syracuse's own website states that Otto the Orange is indeed an anthropomorphic citrus. That's a fruit with human qualities.

Instead of just facing reality, you point to what their Mascot used to be. As in "past tense" as in "its old news and doesn't apply anymore" and tried to tell anyone that would listen, that an orange colored citrus isn't an orange, and unsurprisingly only managed to convince yourself.

nowhere in the ESPN article do they say that they use YAC. and of course in typical ESPN fashion we dont know for sure because they wont publish their formula. and fucken excuse you........

Wrong again slapdick.

Total QBR factors in such things as overthrows, underthrows, yards after the catch and more to accurately determine how much a QB contributes to each play.

That's pretty definitively saying they use YAC yards. If you don't understand that, I must once again refer to your tenuous grasp of the English language.

my argument still stands regardless of if they use YAC even a tiny bit. at this point you are just bringing up a technicality which is a tactic that only losers in an argument revert to.

Actually your argument is terrible to begin with.

You attack their alleged non-use of YAC yards, then when confronted with the fact that you're simply wrong about it, you change your argument to "they don't use it right" without providing a single valid reason as to why that is. (the answer of course is you don't know, and you're just regurgitating a bunch of points that other smarter people have made on a different thread)

You also complain because you're too stupid to know when stats should be used and when they should be ignored. The Tebow Rogers thing is a perfect example. Any idiot that's ever watched a sporting even knows it isn't fair to compare stats from uneven sample sizes. That's why pretty much every stat you see has a "minimum games played" or other qualifier to go with it. In the case you brought up, you were trying to compare Aaron Rogers who played an entire game with Tim Tebow, who came in late in the game for a few series. It isn't a question of whether the numbers are accurate, its a simple case of knowing when they don't apply.

nonsensical rant redacted

Look, I don't really care if you like QBR or not. I certainly don't care about it. The overall results (what actually matters) seem to be reasonable enough. If you say they're trying to cram it down everyone's throat, that's fine. But I've managed to go all this time without feeling even a little violated by it. Perhaps as I mentioned before, you pay too much attention to talking heads on ESPN.

As far as your links go, the first is to a reddit page that has 2 dozen comments, not all of which are even negative, many of which are by a small handful of posters, making multiple comments. In all, I'd say you might pick 10 people out of that page that had something negative to say. Hardly a groundswell of support for your side.

The SportsHoopla link? It's 7 pages of "QBR is teh suck!" "Nuh uh!" "Yah huh!" (with a dash of tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy loon)

 

[john01992]

Lmao you still think "factored" means includes.

an article THAT YOU POSTED has its intro describing how they want to deemphasize YAC and throughout the article says the whole point of the system is taking away the value of YAC and yet you claim that it uses YAC.

you are as dumb as it gets and not even worth the time. and its kinda funny that all the arizona fans rally around you looking for the right answer ==> guess that reaffirms why they are one of the dumbest fanbases

 

[dcZONAfan]

Lmao you still think "factored" means includes.

an article THAT YOU POSTED has its intro describing how they want to deemphasize YAC and throughout the article says the whole point of the system is taking away the value of YAC and yet you claim that it uses YAC.

you are as dumb as it gets and not even worth the time. and its kinda funny that all the arizona fans rally around you looking for the right answer ==> guess that reaffirms why they are one of the dumbest fanbases

what exactly makes us "one of the dumbest fan bases"? is it the fact that we keep telling syracuse fans that until you go on the road (and no, MSG against St. Johns is not the road) you have no claim to the top spot until we lose? is that why you have so much sand in your vagina?

we both sucked today, both played down to our opponents at home and showed exactly why nobody really knows who the best team is and won't know for a few months. but at least we wouldn't be bitching about a #2 ranking like every 'Cuse fan because we understand that it means nothing in December.

 

[dcZONAfan]

also, you and trolly arguing about qbr and rpi and bpi and whatever else the fuck you are arguing about...man that has to be one of the dumbest arguments i have ever seen on a board like this.

HOW ABOUT WE JUDGE PLAYERS USING OUR EYES...oh wait, you probably don't know enough about sports to do that so you use these stupid ratings to do it for you. cool, continue doing that, it'll be fun for you I'm sure.

 

[jonvi]

what exactly makes us "one of the dumbest fan bases"? is it the fact that we keep telling syracuse fans that until you go on the road (and no, MSG against St. Johns is not the road) you have no claim to the top spot until we lose? is that why you have so much sand in your vagina?

we both sucked today, both played down to our opponents at home and showed exactly why nobody really knows who the best team is and won't know for a few months. but at least we wouldn't be bitching about a #2 ranking like some 'Cuse fans because we understand that it means nothing in December.

fify

 

[john01992]

what exactly makes us "one of the dumbest fan bases"? is it the fact that we keep telling syracuse fans that until you go on the road (and no, MSG against St. Johns is not the road) you have no claim to the top spot until we lose? is that why you have so much sand in your vagina?

we both sucked today, both played down to our opponents at home and showed exactly why nobody really knows who the best team is and won't know for a few months. but at least we wouldn't be bitching about a #2 ranking like every 'Cuse fan because we understand that it means nothing in December.

yall have trolly as a closet zona fan ==> guilty by association

even if 50% of your fanbase was rocket scientists having him with you guys and 1-2 zona fans who follow him lowers the average IQ by wildcats fans so far that yall become one of the dumbest fanbases.

call me dumb for even touching this BPI/QBR argument fine......but at least I am coming down on the correct side as easily 2/3 of all message board chatter about QBR is negative.

 

[john01992]

fify

I only do it cuz zona fans dont have enough self esteem to just shake it off

 

[dcZONAfan]

yall have trolly as a closet zona fan ==> guilty by association

even if 50% of your fanbase was rocket scientists having him with you guys and 1-2 zona fans who follow him lowers the average IQ by wildcats fans so far that yall become one of the dumbest fanbases.

call me dumb for even touching this BPI/QBR argument fine......but at least I am coming down on the correct side as easily 2/3 of all message board chatter about QBR is negative.

fair enough. however when it comes to basketball (which is all i care about), arizona fans know their shit, i promise you that. it probably comes from having nothing else to cheer about for, well, forever.

 

[dcZONAfan]

I only do it cuz zona fans dont have enough self esteem to just shake it off

self esteem? who are we, bama fans?

 

[john01992]

fair enough. however when it comes to basketball (which is all i care about), arizona fans know their shit, i promise you that. it probably comes from having nothing else to cheer about for, well, forever.

I am not saying arizona fans dont know their shit. but the BPI/QBR thing is a tad annoying. IMO both suck and just because I said that "i dont trust any ESPN developed system" all the zona fans jumped on me. (guess it has to do with zona being #1 in the BPI).

other then that my only other complaint about arizona fans is that they push them being a top 10 program. its close but I dont think they have made that cut yet. difference of opinion........

 

[john01992]

self esteem? who are we, bama fans?

no.........not even close

bama fans will go as far as to kill & destroy their rivals 100 year old tradition

nobody outside of alabama wants to be associated with anything that has to do with alabama

-except maybe mississippi.

 

[dcZONAfan]

I am not saying arizona fans dont know their shit. but the BPI/QBR thing is a tad annoying. IMO both suck and just because I said that "i dont trust any ESPN developed system" all the zona fans jumped on me. (guess it has to do with zona being #1 in the BPI).

other then that my only other complaint about arizona fans is that they push them being a top 10 program. its close but I dont think they have made that cut yet. difference of opinion........

i understand. and the fact that arizona fans are defending anything about ESPN is very hypocritical since all of them bitch about ESPN being the engine that drives the East Coast Bias (which i will have to agree with them on, even though I am on and from the east coast).

but when i comes to top 10 programs, i think all that we worry about is "relevance" and that means that, when considering top programs, it's less about the old days and more "what have you done for me lately". because I am 29, and in my time as a sports fan arizona has most certainly been a top 10 program in the country, and anyone who disagrees is, simply, wrong. when you start talking historically....well i wasn't alive so i don't care so much about that

 

[dcZONAfan]

It's time for UC to get some freakin national respect, damnit.

agreed man, that was a good win today. @ memphis is no joke, but i can't say i'm surprised a tough, physical team like Cincy owned memphis.

 

[john01992]

i understand. and the fact that arizona fans are defending anything about ESPN is very hypocritical since all of them bitch about ESPN being the engine that drives the East Coast Bias (which i will have to agree with them on, even though I am on and from the east coast).

but when i comes to top 10 programs, i think all that we worry about is "relevance" and that means that, when considering top programs, it's less about the old days and more "what have you done for me lately". because I am 29, and in my time as a sports fan arizona has most certainly been a top 10 program in the country, and anyone who disagrees is, simply, wrong. when you start talking historically....well i wasn't alive so i don't care so much about that

well said on both points

 

[CatsTopPac]

dcZonafan, Just to bring you up to speed on what young Johnny is referring to:

I too think that what ESPN reports on, and the nature of their coverage reflects whatever degree of ECB. But when it comes to quantitative markers, I trust them, and I'll tell you why. They amass the data without bias. And it's usually in those instances that there is no bias; they don't know who is going to come out on top when they set the criteria. For example, if we want to talk about best programs ever; AZ is not in the top ten. But when ESPN did their best 50 in the last 50, AZ was #10. I subscribe to that. In 2008, they had a top 10 since 1985, and AZ was #5. I think that was pretty accurate also. And the BPI is set without any consideration of regional loyalty. They put in the data, and the rankings come out.

Young Johnny and I were discussing the difference between the RPI and BPI. Naturally, I couldn't give a shit about either for the most part. But I do think that for anyone who does care, the BPI is probably about as accurate a system as there is. I've thought that since it came out, based on their methodology, and the scope of data included. It has picked the champions in both years of its existance, and has been more accurate on the Final Four than the RPI. That's the proof for me.

But Johnny's beef with AZ is in the fact that he desperately obsesses over the rankings and how Cuse is not #1. I wasted some time trying to tell him how little rankings matter, how AZ is going to be #1 until they lose, and how there are a handful of teams that are all in the top tier. If it wasn't "Cuse is #1", then he didn't want to hear it. Since then, he has had some irrational hard-on for AZ, and he takes every opportunity to twist his chosen facts to show how AZ is garbage and how Cuse is the best thing ever. So I'm done with him. I think Cuse is a great team, and so are OSU and Wisky. Any of them could be the top team right now, and honestly, none of it matters, and no one gives a shit, except for him. So just know all that going in.

 

[dcZONAfan]

hey CTP, are you on PGU as well?

 

[CatsTopPac]

hey CTP, are you on PGU as well?

Sho nuff, you?