Lebron to LA

[Used 2 B Hu]

Unless he somehow goes to the Warriors, he's basically going to need to accept that he's not going to win next year no matter what he does.

Every team he could go to has potential issues that could keep him out of the finals or at least from winning the title.

So just stay in Cleveland and don't opt-out

 

[trojanfan12]

I've said many times that the Lakers make the most sense if Lebron is focused on non-basketball related factors. No one knows if he is.

Yeah, the only thing we have as a "hint" is Lebron saying he's going to discuss it with his family and they would have a big input. But I'm pretty sure he's said some version of that in every free agency.

This becomes a chicken or egg thing. IMO, the only way this could possibly work is if Kawhi pitches Lebron himself.

You may very well be right about that. We don't even know if San Antonio is even a consideration for Lebron. I've never even heard of them as a team that Lebron is considering other than media speculation because it would be a good fit basketball wise if Kawhi returned.

I'm sure Boston is interested but I don't think they are likely going to make a big move for Lebron. IMO, I think Ainge is more likely to keep his powder dry for an AD run.

Agree. I'm sure Ainge will practice due diligence and at least take a look at what they'd have to do to get him...but a run at AD actually makes more sense for them than a run at Lebron.

This becomes a chicken or egg thing. IMO, the only way this could possibly work is if Kawhi pitches Lebron himself.

Agree.

Ben Simmons can be a banger in the paint. Lonzo can't. It's a pretty huge difference.

So can Lebron.

If Lonzo and Ingram are redundant with Lebron and PG, then Simmons and Lebron are also redundant. Plus, you are asking Simmons to pretty much change his entire game.

 

[trojanfan12]

So just stay in Cleveland and don't opt-out

That's definitely a possibility. In fact, depending on what his ultimate goal is, it may be his best option. Spend one more season with the Cavs, see how other teams develop/what moves they make and then move to another team after next season.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

That's definitely a possibility. In fact, depending on what his ultimate goal is, it may be his best option. Spend one more season with the Cavs, see how other teams develop/what moves they make and then move to another team after next season.

I think it makes the most sense from several standpoints:

1) What you mentioned earlier, that no matter where he goes it's no guarantee of a title, but he just made the Finals with Cleveland and a sack of 6th men so he could do it again next season;
2) From a PR standpoint, he isn't bailing on his hometown at the earliest convenient moment (again);
3) give those other teams a chance to clear space for him in 2019

 

[trojanfan12]

I think it makes the most sense from several standpoints:

1) What you mentioned earlier, that no matter where he goes it's no guarantee of a title, but he just made the Finals with Cleveland and a sack of 6th men so he could do it again next season;
2) From a PR standpoint, he isn't bailing on his hometown at the earliest convenient moment (again);
3) give those other teams a chance to clear space for him in 2019

It all comes down to what his goals are at this point in his career.

If it's like D-Wade said and factors outside of basketball are a going to be a big part of his decision...then it makes sense for him to move on and the Lakers are probably where he goes (unless his family really wants to stay in Cleveland).

If his goal is strictly to win another title or 2 before he retires, then staying one more season in Cleveland probably makes the most sense.

If the Lakers stick to what Magic said and don't "spend money just to spend money" they will have cap space for him after next season.

Other teams will also find ways to create room for him, maybe even some that aren't necessarily on the radar right now.

 

[flyerhawk]

If you think he needs the ball to be effective, then you haven't seen him play. He doesn't run the offense in the traditional sense. He starts the offense and keeps the ball moving. He was among the league leaders in getting rid of the ball quickly. One of his biggest strengths is making the pass that leads to the assist (the "hockey assist") as making the actual assist.

No doubt that he needs to improve his shooting. Hopefully he will put in the work. But he doesn't have to have the ball. In fact, much like the Warriors, the Lakers offense is at it's best when no one is keeping the ball in their hands for very long. Lonzo is a big part of how they do that.

The biggest problem they had last year, was they didn't have anyone who could take over the game when the offense wasn't flowing or to go to late in close games. Ingram showed some flashes of being that guy, but he's not ready for that yet. The addition of Lebron and PG eliminates that problem.

Do you think Lebron and Paul George will fit into a Warriors style offense? Lebron is about as ball dominant a player as they come. Wherever he goes, that team is going to need to adjust to his game, not the other way around.

Why are you moving the goalposts? Nothing has been said about defense in the paint. Your contention was that Lebron and PG with Ingram and Lonzo create a redundancy. I said they don't and explained why. Who will be in the paint wasn't part of the discussion. However, I would expect that the Lakers would be able to sign a veteran big to an MLE or something to help with that.

You tend to use the "positionless" argument a lot and I think it is wildly overstated. The Warriors are more or less positionless because they have 3 of the 10 best shooters of all time, maybe 5, so they focus on ball movement to get to the open shooter. I'm not sure any other team will ever be able to replicate that.

So when you argue that the Lakers are positionless, I'm just not sure what you are trying to say. Yes they want to have a lot of ball movement. But they don't have teh shooters to play Warriors basketball even with PG and Lebron and that style of play takes away from Lebron's game.

I disagree. PG is a more versatile player than Love and can create his own shot where Love really can't.

We are arguing degrees. Perhaps he won't be logging the MOST minutes in the league again next year but it will be up there.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, the only thing we have as a "hint" is Lebron saying he's going to discuss it with his family and they would have a big input. But I'm pretty sure he's said some version of that in every free agency.

Yup. It's kinda boilerplate for just about every FA to say something like this. Maybe it is for real. Maybe not.

You may very well be right about that. We don't even know if San Antonio is even a consideration for Lebron. I've never even heard of them as a team that Lebron is considering other than media speculation because it would be a good fit basketball wise if Kawhi returned.

Agreed. Pure spitballing.

So can Lebron.

Of course. But you asked me why I thought that Ben could work better with Lebron than Ball. That's the reason. Simmons size gives him versatility when he is off the ball.

If Lonzo and Ingram are redundant with Lebron and PG, then Simmons and Lebron are also redundant. Plus, you are asking Simmons to pretty much change his entire game.

A. You are assuming that Lebron will adopt the Lakers style of play rather than the other way around. I think that is unlikely. If the Lakers need to adjust to Lebron's game it will make it hard to have Ball on the court because he doesn't have an inside presence and his jump shot is not there yet.
B. Ben Simmons already plays this EXACT WAY. When Ben is off the ball he generally moves down to the post. He may swing back out to receive the ball as well or move to the top of the key. The difference would be that when he's off the ball it was guys like Reddick or Saric or McConnell with the ball.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that Ball CAN'T work with Lebron or that Lebron definitely CAN work with Simmons. But based on what we have seen so far, that is how I see the two situations.

IMO, for the Sixers, the guy who could really suffer is Fultz unless he gets his jump shot working.

 

[trojanfan12]

Do you think Lebron and Paul George will fit into a Warriors style offense? Lebron is about as ball dominant a player as they come. Wherever he goes, that team is going to need to adjust to his game, not the other way around.

I definitely see PG fitting into it without an issue. Lebron will take a little convincing. He's used to essentially being the system.

The reason I think he may be willing to do it (at least the approach I'd take with him) is that word for the past few years has been that Lebron wants to lighten his load, yet it keeps getting heavier.

In a Warriors style offense, he could have his load lightened, but still have the freedom to take over late in close games.

You tend to use the "positionless" argument a lot and I think it is wildly overstated. The Warriors are more or less positionless because they have 3 of the 10 best shooters of all time, maybe 5, so they focus on ball movement to get to the open shooter. I'm not sure any other team will ever be able to replicate that.

How is it "wildly overstated" when that is what many teams are moving to and what we are seeing be successful.

Focusing on ball movement to get open shots is what every team that doesn't run a lot of iso is trying to do.

So when you argue that the Lakers are positionless, I'm just not sure what you are trying to say. Yes they want to have a lot of ball movement. But they don't have teh shooters to play Warriors basketball even with PG and Lebron and that style of play takes away from Lebron's game.

Playing positionless basketball isn't just about getting open looks from the perimeter. It's also about getting open shots at the rim and about being able to switch on defense.

PG is a shooter, Kuzma is a shooter and I'm sure the Lakers will look to get a veteran shooter or 2 looking for a chance at a ring.

 

[flyerhawk]

I definitely see PG fitting into it without an issue. Lebron will take a little convincing. He's used to essentially being the system.

The reason I think he may be willing to do it (at least the approach I'd take with him) is that word for the past few years has been that Lebron wants to lighten his load, yet it keeps getting heavier.

In a Warriors style offense, he could have his load lightened, but still have the freedom to take over late in close games.

I'm sure that Lebron would like to see his offensive load lightened. Not sure he would embrace a Warriors style offense. Heck, KD bristles at it at times and his game fits it far better.

How is it "wildly overstated" when that is what many teams are moving to and what we are seeing be successful.

Focusing on ball movement to get open shots is what every team that doesn't run a lot of iso is trying to do.

I was referring to the positionless stuff. Other than the Warriors what teams really play a positionless style? The Celtics? Certainly not the Rockets or Spurs or Blazers or Jazz or Sixers.

Playing positionless basketball isn't just about getting open looks from the perimeter. It's also about getting open shots at the rim and about being able to switch on defense.

PG is a shooter, Kuzma is a shooter and I'm sure the Lakers will look to get a veteran shooter or 2 looking for a chance at a ring.

Sure. Again, it is possible that it would work. But there are a lot of question marks and the team, as potentionally constructed isn't a natural fit for the style.

 

[trojanfan12]

A. You are assuming that Lebron will adopt the Lakers style of play rather than the other way around. I think that is unlikely. If the Lakers need to adjust to Lebron's game it will make it hard to have Ball on the court because he doesn't have an inside presence and his jump shot is not there yet.

I think it can be the best of both worlds. They can play a ball movement based system and Lebron can still have the option of "taking over" when necessary.

If Lonzo's outside shot doesn't improve, then maybe he's out of the game when Lebron needs to take over.

Or you can keep him on the floor because he has played better than expected defensively, but he'd have to understand he's not going to see the ball a lot during those times.

B. Ben Simmons already plays this EXACT WAY. When Ben is off the ball he generally moves down to the post. He may swing back out to receive the ball as well or move to the top of the key. The difference would be that when he's off the ball it was guys like Reddick or Saric or McConnell with the ball.

The problem is that Simmons is rarely off the ball and the Sixers didn't draft him to play off the ball. They drafted him in hopes that he can become the next Lebron.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that Ball CAN'T work with Lebron or that Lebron definitely CAN work with Simmons. But based on what we have seen so far, that is how I see the two situations.

Bottom line is that some level of change will be required by both Lebron and Simmons/Ball. I just think that the bigger change will be required by Simmons because of how similar his and Lebron's style of play are.

Both Simmons and Lonzo will have to develop an outside shot. In Lonzo, you have a guy who will will shoot it, but isn't very good at it. In Simmons, you have a guy who seems to be allergic to shooting outside.

Not sure which problem is better/easier to deal with. lol

IMO, for the Sixers, the guy who could really suffer is Fultz unless he gets his jump shot working.

Yeah, seems like it would be hard for him to get on the court unless you're putting him in for shooting purposes. Which you can't do if he's not hitting it.

 

[flyerhawk]

The problem is that Simmons is rarely off the ball and the Sixers didn't draft him to play off the ball. They drafted him in hopes that he can become the next Lebron.

I don't have much issue with the rest of what you said so I'll just respond to this.

I honestly can't decide if I want Lebron on the Sixers or not. Of course he is an all time great and would instantly make them finals contenders.

But I honestly don't know how it would impact the development of Ben, Fultz, Embiid and Saric. This team, even without Lebron, could be really good for a long time. Especially if Fultz or their lottery pick this year develop into competent players. It could be argued that Lebron would put their development on hold a bit.

I'm sure that Ben and Lebron and Brett Brown could devise a working system and I actually think that Ben would still be the primary ball handler even with Lebron. But I also feel like this goes from Ben's team to Lebron's team and I want to see Ben take ownership of the team.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't have much issue with the rest of what you said so I'll just respond to this.

I honestly can't decide if I want Lebron on the Sixers or not. Of course he is an all time great and would instantly make them finals contenders.

But I honestly don't know how it would impact the development of Ben, Fultz, Embiid and Saric. This team, even without Lebron, could be really good for a long time. Especially if Fultz or their lottery pick this year develop into competent players. It could be argued that Lebron would put their development on hold a bit.

I'm sure that Ben and Lebron and Brett Brown could devise a working system and I actually think that Ben would still be the primary ball handler even with Lebron. But I also feel like this goes from Ben's team to Lebron's team and I want to see Ben take ownership of the team.

Yeah, I've wondered if, similar to the Celtics, the Sixers would be that interested in Lebron because of what they already have.

They seem to have put together a team of young guys that all fit together really, really well and look like they will develop into a contender just standing pat or making minor moves.

Obviously, they have to at least take a good long look at it, but ultimately it may not be in their best interest long term.

The Lakers aren't as far along as the Sixers in their development, so Lebron likely has less impact, at least negatively, on their development.

 

[Shanemansj13]

So LA because it is LA. San Antonio because he can team up with a guy that may not even want to be there. Odd that you think that San Antonio could do it, even though they would need to pull off a big trade, but Boston or Houston can't because they would need to pull off a big trade.

I love how people are arguing that Lebron and Simmons are a horrible fit. That has become such gospel. I guess there is just no way they could figure out how to get 6'10" 250 Lb Ben Simmons to play on the court along with Lebron James. There really is no position for him on the court. LOL.

He is a horrible shooter and it is hard for him to create his own other than driving. He is a work in progress but he isnt there yet. Not really what Lebron is looking for at this point in his career. Embiid only plays limited minutes and is injury prone. Sounds like a disaster in the making. There are better fits for him than Philly

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I think Ainge is willing to swap LeBron for Kyrie but would LeBron really want that drama? We got KD responding to everyone on twitter so public perception could be a factor for players. How funny would it be to see Westbrook jilted again by a teammate running off to form a superteam?

I heard Chris Bosh bring up something interesting recently, he mentioned no one really wanting to take the throne in LA after Kobe due to the pressure. There would be way more pressure on LeBron playing for a franchise like the Lakers than somewhere like Philly.

 

[flyerhawk]

He is a horrible shooter and it is hard for him to create his own other than driving. He is a work in progress but he isnt there yet. Not really what Lebron is looking for at this point in his career. Embiid only plays limited minutes and is injury prone. Sounds like a disaster in the making. There are better fits for him than Philly

So it is hard for him to create his own shot except when he creates his own shot driving to the hoop? Gotcha.

Embiid averaged 30 minutes a game this year.

 

[Mecca]

Time to take Houston off the list, boys and girls.

Report: LeBron James says he doesn’t like Houston as city

 

[Shanemansj13]

Huh? Ball needs the ball in his hands to be effective. His shooting isn't good enough to be an effective off the ball player. His entire game is being a facilitator. Maybe if his shooting dramatically improves in the offseason that changes but that is the situation right now.





I don't care what position you call someone, you still need to match up with the other team defensively. Someone has to play in the paint on defense. Who is that going to be Lebron?



You think that PG is going to shoulder a significantly higher amount of the load than Kevin Love? Sure, on defense he will. But on offense I don't see a whole heck of a lot of difference.

Simmons is almost a replica, man you are not realizing it. Simmons needs the ball in his hands to be effective, yes he can play off the ball but he has no shot. At least from Lonzo we know he has one bc we saw it in college. What if Simmons never can deveiop an even decent shot?

And yes PG can carry a higher load than Love can LOL. You must not watch much bball. PG carried that Pacers team, he is a two way wing player and he can create his own shot, Love cant do that and he cant defend. Huge difference on offense from Love to PG. PG can carry on offense for spurts. Love needs others to feed him the ball in the post or by getting an open 3.

 

[Shanemansj13]

So it is hard for him to create his own shot except when he creates his own shot driving to the hoop? Gotcha.

Embiid averaged 30 minutes a game this year.

As the 2nd best player on the team when Lebron’s best ability is to drive the paint and kick to shooters. How does this help Simmons? Wade didn’t have a 3 ball but he could shoot it and he had an amazing mid range. Simmons has nothing. It isnt a good fit for Lebron.

Embiid is INJURY PRONE. He gets gassed easily, low stamina.

This is far from the best fit for Lebron, even for a homer like you to see

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Simmons is almost a replica, man you are not realizing it. Simmons needs the ball in his hands to be effective, yes he can play off the ball but he has no shot. At least from Lonzo we know he has one bc we saw it in college. What if Simmons never can deveiop an even decent shot?

And yes PG can carry a higher load than Love can LOL. You must not watch much bball. PG carried that Pacers team, he is a two way wing player and he can create his own shot, Love cant do that and he cant defend. Huge difference on offense from Love to PG. PG can carry on offense for spurts. Love needs others to feed him the ball in the post or by getting an open 3.

LeBron was heavily criticized for his shooting early on in his career, but he was still leagues ahead of where Simmons is.

 

[flyerhawk]

Simmons is almost a replica, man you are not realizing it. Simmons needs the ball in his hands to be effective, yes he can play off the ball but he has no shot. At least from Lonzo we know he has one bc we saw it in college. What if Simmons never can deveiop an even decent shot?

And yes PG can carry a higher load than Love can LOL. You must not watch much bball. PG carried that Pacers team, he is a two way wing player and he can create his own shot, Love cant do that and he cant defend. Huge difference on offense from Love to PG. PG can carry on offense for spurts. Love needs others to feed him the ball in the post or by getting an open 3.

It's weird. Because Ben Simmons stat line last year was 16 points per game on over 50% shooting.

As for PG, Lebron and George plus a bunch of randoms isn't a massive upgrade over Lebron and Love and a bunch of randoms. If Ingram and Kuzma step up their game maybe things change.