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[scotsman1948]

With the youth of Holland, Harrison, Feliz, Perez, Ramirez etc. do you really think either of those guys would've been mainstays in the Texas rotation going forward? Those guys were always going to be trade pieces IMO.

and if you include Darvish with Holland, Harrison, Feliz, Perez and Ramirez and then look at the depth of our minor league behind Martin Perez & Neil Ramirez, you have Robert Ross, Cody Buckel, Roman Mendez, Tanner Scheppers, Justin Grimm, Will Lamb, Kevin Matthews and Luke Jackson all graded as possible mid-rotation starters. granted, some of them will probably end up in bullpen but we have a lot of pitching depth

 

[Windingmywatch]

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Careful there Watch, that thought process could get trumped in the near future by the Mike Adams deal.

Wieland and Erlin were probably never going to make it into the big league rotation. They got one of the premier set up men in baseball for them and much needed bullpen depth. Still a good deal in my book.

My comment was relative to CLE signing Cristian Guzman (His Spareness). TEX acquired Guzman from WAS in Jul 2010 for Ryan Tatusko and Tanner Roark.

Had nothing to do with Wieland and Erlin for Adams.

 

[Windingmywatch]

that assumption is just absurd, both guys were some of our better starting pitching prospects

Am I against the trade? not really but the price was a little on the high side, but to say neither guy was going to make it is just ridiculous

I think they both are going to show up in #4 or #5 spots in the NL ... and Adams acquistion for them I think was a pretty good deal. I think TEX was thinking of Adams a potential closer if Feliz stumbled down to the finish of 2011.

Actually I wonder who is a sounder closer ... Nathan or Adams? Bet its going to be tested just so TEX knows.

 

[romeo212000]

My comment was relative to CLE signing Cristian Guzman (His Spareness). TEX acquired Guzman from WAS in Jul 2010 for Ryan Tatusko and Tanner Roark.

Had nothing to do with Wieland and Erlin for Adams.

My comment was in response to Al.

 

[Al Falfa]

I think they both are going to show up in #4 or #5 spots in the NL ... and Adams acquistion for them I think was a pretty good deal. I think TEX was thinking of Adams a potential closer if Feliz stumbled down to the finish of 2011.

Actually I wonder who is a sounder closer ... Nathan or Adams? Bet its going to be tested just so TEX knows.

I'll bet they think it's the one they gave the 14 million dollar contract to?

 

[scotsman1948]

and if you include Darvish with Holland, Harrison, Feliz, Perez and Ramirez and then look at the depth of our minor league behind Martin Perez & Neil Ramirez, you have Robert Ross, Cody Buckel, Roman Mendez, Tanner Scheppers, Justin Grimm, Will Lamb, Kevin Matthews and Luke Jackson all graded as possible mid-rotation starters. granted, some of them will probably end up in bullpen but we have a lot of pitching depth

and Harrison is the oldest of the bunch at 26

 

[jta4437]

With the youth of Holland, Harrison, Feliz, Perez, Ramirez etc. do you really think either of those guys would've been mainstays in the Texas rotation going forward? Those guys were always going to be trade pieces IMO.

Going into last season, Holland had shown nothing, Harrison had been a headcase, Feliz was a closer, Perez had just gotten bombed in AA, and Ramirez had had injury problems, so to say they were always going to be trade pieces is just foolish

As it is, Ramirez has to prove he can handle AAA for a full season, Perez has to prove he won't get bombed in AAA, Feliz has to prove he can handle the transition back to starter, and Holland and Harrison need to show something again this year before I start calling them sure thing as nice as last year was and all

Injuries are always a possibility so it ALWAYS nice to have plenty of depth and to not overpay when it comes to starting pitching, it often comes back to bite you in the ass

 

[romeo212000]

Going into last season, Holland had shown nothing, Harrison had been a headcase, Feliz was a closer, Perez had just gotten bombed in AA, and Ramirez had had injury problems, so to say they were always going to be trade pieces is just foolish

As it is, Ramirez has to prove he can handle AAA for a full season, Perez has to prove he won't get bombed in AAA, Feliz has to prove he can handle the transition back to starter, and Holland and Harrison need to show something again this year before I start calling them sure thing as nice as last year was and all

Injuries are always a possibility so it ALWAYS nice to have plenty of depth and to not overpay when it comes to starting pitching, it often comes back to bite you in the ass

As Scotsman pointed out we are always adding to our pitching depth.

 

[jta4437]

As Scotsman pointed out we are always adding to our pitching depth.

That wasn't the point, to say Wieland and Erlin were non-factors as potential rotation pieces is just asinine

Wieland long-term bothers me a little bit more than Erlin though, and to give up both for a reliever is nto usually considered a good move, not terrible but a forced move nonetheless

 

[scotsman1948]

Going into last season, Holland had shown nothing, Harrison had been a headcase, Feliz was a closer, Perez had just gotten bombed in AA, and Ramirez had had injury problems, so to say they were always going to be trade pieces is just foolish

As it is, Ramirez has to prove he can handle AAA for a full season, Perez has to prove he won't get bombed in AAA, Feliz has to prove he can handle the transition back to starter, and Holland and Harrison need to show something again this year before I start calling them sure thing as nice as last year was and all

Injuries are always a possibility so it ALWAYS nice to have plenty of depth and to not overpay when it comes to starting pitching, it often comes back to bite you in the ass

when you have the depth of present-day & future starters like we have with Lewis, Feldman, Holland, Harrison, Darvish, Feliz, Ogando and the 10+ pitchers at the different levels of our minor league system and the good job of drafting pitchers that we've done the team can afford to trade POTENTIAL for proven talent without adversely affecting the team

 

[jta4437]

when you have the depth of present-day & future starters like we have with Lewis, Feldman, Holland, Harrison, Darvish, Feliz, Ogando and the 10+ pitchers at the different levels of our minor league system and the good job of drafting pitchers that we've done the team can afford to trade POTENTIAL for proven talent without adversely affecting the team

When those guys were traded we didn't have Darvish and Feliz was the closer, and a lot of those other arms were at AA and lower

But, once again, missing the point, trading 2 potential rotation arms for a bullpen arm is almost always a bad idea

 

[scotsman1948]

When those guys were traded we didn't have Darvish and Feliz was the closer, and a lot of those other arms were at AA and lower

But, once again, missing the point, trading 2 potential rotation arms for a bullpen arm is almost always a bad idea

and the optimum word in your statement is "almost" so we're both right

 

[Windingmywatch]

I'll bet they think it's the one they gave the 14 million dollar contract to?

You're probably right ... but at least unlike last ST there isn't the debate going on as to whether Feliz is better back in the closer role versus starting.

Nathan, Adams, Ogando ... and the guy Guy who seems totally out of the picture now ... Mark Lowe. Have no idea where he fits in now at all.

Guess that's what ST is about.

 

[Windingmywatch]

When those guys were traded we didn't have Darvish and Feliz was the closer, and a lot of those other arms were at AA and lower

But, once again, missing the point, trading 2 potential rotation arms for a bullpen arm is almost always a bad idea

Given what the conversation that was going on back then between TEX and SDP ... would have taken prospects like those two guys to have gotten the other guy everyone thought TEX was after off the SDP staff (Bell) ... and TEX got Adams for two years.

Think this was a good move at the end of the day. Nothing is perfect or guaranteed.

 

[Al Falfa]

and if you include Darvish with Holland, Harrison, Feliz, Perez and Ramirez and then look at the depth of our minor league behind Martin Perez & Neil Ramirez, you have Robert Ross, Cody Buckel, Roman Mendez, Tanner Scheppers, Justin Grimm, Will Lamb, Kevin Matthews and Luke Jackson all graded as possible mid-rotation starters. granted, some of them will probably end up in bullpen but we have a lot of pitching depth

Maybe that's why Cliff Lee didn't take the $120 million offer. To much competition.

 

[jta4437]

and the optimum word in your statement is "almost" so we're both right

It remains to be seen, if either or both turns into a stud and all we get is a season and a half of Adams, I'd call it a loss

If Adams latches on for a few more quality seasons and neither becomes anything, a win

And whatever the middle ground is, up for debate

Hindsight is 20/20, we have no idea of knowing til its all said and done

 

[Xx srs bsns xX]

Maybe that's why Cliff Lee didn't take the $120 million offer. To much competition.

For some reason....this made me chuckle....

It remains to be seen, if either or both turns into a stud and all we get is a season and a half of Adams, I'd call it a loss

If Adams latches on for a few more quality seasons and neither becomes anything, a win

So based on that logic...was trading Smoak, Beavan & others for Cliff Lee & Lowe a loss? Eventhough it allowed the Rangers to advance to the World Series for the first time in franchise history?

 

[jta4437]

For some reason....this made me chuckle....




So based on that logic...was trading Smoak, Beavan & others for Cliff Lee & Lowe a loss? Eventhough it allowed the Rangers to advance to the World Series for the first time in franchise history?

Not the same thing, as Lee is a starter, I'm talking about trading starters for a reliever

 

[scotsman1948]

It remains to be seen, if either or both turns into a stud and all we get is a season and a half of Adams, I'd call it a loss

If Adams latches on for a few more quality seasons and neither becomes anything, a win

And whatever the middle ground is, up for debate

Hindsight is 20/20, we have no idea of knowing til its all said and done

maybe Texas looked at Erlin and thought he would have issues at the BPiA.

Now a member of the San Diego Padres organization, Robbie Erlin takes his 123/12 strikeout-to-walk ratio and heads west to potentially the most pitcher friendly park in the big leagues. Erlin's only weakness, a propensity for fly balls, would have been a difficult fit in Texas. Now, Erlin will spend half his starts attacking opposing hitters without fear of the long ball a 40% ground ball rate would normally cause.

and maybe they thought the same about Wieland:

A 6-3, 175 pound 21-year-old right-hander, Wieland works comfortably at 89-92 MPH and has been clocked as high as 94 MPH this year. He already has a very good, plus curveball, and his changeup has above-average moments. His command and control are exceptional, and his statistical performance this year is outstanding: a combined 1.80 ERA with a 132/15 K/BB in 130 innings, with 113 hits allowed. He tends to be a fly ball type, but would fit well in the San Diego environment.

 

[scotsman1948]

Roy Oswalt has told MLB teams that he may sign midseason, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick reports. The free agent right-hander has told clubs he intends to stay ready in case an appealing opportunity emerges before midseason.