Kyrie to Boston rumors heating up. Deal nearly complete

[The Q]

Intersting.

In 2011 and 2016, the winner was a definite upset. Dallas over Miami's "super team" in 2011, and Cleveland over the 73 win Warriors in '16. 2015 was the only Finals played since LeBron went to Miami without at least 1 legit super team. GS wasn't there yet and Cleveland, whether labeled Super or not, were playing without Kyrie and Love.

Also, James was an 8.9 in 2016, which one of the 5 best years since he went to Miami.

Dirk was only a 4.9, which would've made him 10th in the present year system, ironically slightly ahead of Jokic.

 

[tlance]

Fair enough, you have your opinion and I have mine. Let's just move on.

That is fine, but your position based on the scoring title also implies that Westbrook is a better scorer than Kevin Durant. It is simply fact that KD is a better scorer. I hope you don't think otherwise.

 

[tlance]

Also, James was an 8.9 in 2016, which one of the 5 best years since he went to Miami.

Dirk was only a 4.9, which would've made him 10th in the present year system, ironically slightly ahead of Jokic.

How far back do these numbers go?

 

[The Q]

How far back do these numbers go?

1985.

Here:

Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet.

Notice Kyrie vs. IT

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i guess you cant read.

I have been consistent about Kyrie the ENTIRE time. He is somewhere between outside the top 10 players in the league--- but no one- at least I think- could ever say he is out of the top 20. I have generally had him between about 12th and 16th. I did think by the age of 25 that his defense would have improved by now.

I think after Durant (and people have some good points- RW as well) he is prob the best offensive player in the game. I dont think there is a guy i would rather have take a last shot down 1 with 5 seconds left in the entire league.

This was all about what it does for the Cavs going forward. Without Kyrie AND Love- whenever LeBron decides to leave its going to be over and there will be an inevitable rebuild. I mean- I think Isiah is a good player (not as good as Hurricane had him in his top 10 players--- id prob have Isiah right around top 30-- prob between 28 and 32 is what i would think)--- but the window is going to close when LeBron leaves- whether thats next year, 3 years from now, or 7 years from now.

Isiah at the age of 28 lines up with LeBrons last 3 or so really great years. That was a must for a trade to happen. During those 3 years at least (lets say LeBron re-ups plays 2 more yeras with the Cavs after this one which i think is likely) he is going to give you 80% of what Kyrie gave you. After those 3 years when Kyrie is 28 in his prime and Isiah is 31-32 years old?--- Kyrie will be SO far and away better than Isiah - but at that point if Lebron is gone/retired its totally irrelevant anyway.

then you add Crowder...not only do you add him--- you take him away from Cleveland's biggest competition in the East. All of a sudden the Cavs have someone not named LeBron that can do a solid job on Hayward- and the Celtics have no one even slightly equipped to guard LeBron. Crowder is a PERFECT backup for LeBron- esp. with Jefferson getting so old.

And if LeBron leaves- you could flip Crowder and the 2 year 14M left on his contract AFTER this year for a solid first round pick in about half a second.

Then you get to the pick. Which makes the trade worth while. RIGHT NOW- there are at least 2 studs in this upcoming draft in Bagley and Porter- each of whom would have gone #1 this year. These are guys that are closer to the Anthony Davis tier than they are to the Markelle Fultz tier. There are a number of other players that fall into that Fultz/Ball/Fox tier.

Out of all the best teams in the league- the teams where a star that becomes avaliable would want to go to-- Cleveland has the best asset (unless Boston wants to trade Tatum). If Cousins, or Marc Gasol, or even Paul George, or WHO KNOWS become available- the Cavs will be in the best position to get that guy.

Not only that- but the Cavs are also- from what i have read- the favorites to add Wade. That would be a helluva bench scorer and 2nd unit leader. Hes not CLOSE to All Star DWADE anymore- but 20-25 minutes off the bench? Sign me up for that.

So- as i said? is Kyrie Irving a top 15 player? YES. Much clutch player in the game? DEFINITELY can make that argument. Am i disappointed hes gone? of course. Did the Cavs get a big time haul for him? FUCK YES. Its a trade that helps them both short term- and potentially long term. If you think 34 year old 1st year GM Koby Altman was the main architect behind this deal- you obviously havent beeen paying attention.

Also- obviously Zizic is an after thought in a deal this big- but he is a legit young big man that would have gone in the top 20 in this draft. As would have Cedi Osman. Those are 2 other decent assets the Cavs have- whether they want to keep them and have some cheap labor- or use them in a deal.



If LeBron told the Cavs- ill stay 2 more years- I think they could DEFINITELY pull off a Gasol deal.

Maybe if they are lucky Cousins will self destruct, and the Cavs can work out a deal with the Pelicans for Anthony Davis (this is a pipe dream I know- but hey - ya never know)- the Cavs could offer the Brooklyn pick, flip Crowder for another solid first rounder, and add Zizic, Osman). Who is trumping that?

No fucking chance I'm reading that.
Just one question.
Are the Cavs winning it all this year with this roster, plus Wade, assuming all healthy?

 

[The Q]

I can't imagine that's enough. At least get the Cavs first round pick this year too.

 

[The Q]

i guess you cant read.

I have been consistent about Kyrie the ENTIRE time. He is somewhere between outside the top 10 players in the league--- but no one- at least I think- could ever say he is out of the top 20. I have generally had him between about 12th and 16th. I did think by the age of 25 that his defense would have improved by now.

I think after Durant (and people have some good points- RW as well) he is prob the best offensive player in the game. I dont think there is a guy i would rather have take a last shot down 1 with 5 seconds left in the entire league.

This was all about what it does for the Cavs going forward. Without Kyrie AND Love- whenever LeBron decides to leave its going to be over and there will be an inevitable rebuild. I mean- I think Isiah is a good player (not as good as Hurricane had him in his top 10 players--- id prob have Isiah right around top 30-- prob between 28 and 32 is what i would think)--- but the window is going to close when LeBron leaves- whether thats next year, 3 years from now, or 7 years from now.

Isiah at the age of 28 lines up with LeBrons last 3 or so really great years. That was a must for a trade to happen. During those 3 years at least (lets say LeBron re-ups plays 2 more yeras with the Cavs after this one which i think is likely) he is going to give you 80% of what Kyrie gave you. After those 3 years when Kyrie is 28 in his prime and Isiah is 31-32 years old?--- Kyrie will be SO far and away better than Isiah - but at that point if Lebron is gone/retired its totally irrelevant anyway.

then you add Crowder...not only do you add him--- you take him away from Cleveland's biggest competition in the East. All of a sudden the Cavs have someone not named LeBron that can do a solid job on Hayward- and the Celtics have no one even slightly equipped to guard LeBron. Crowder is a PERFECT backup for LeBron- esp. with Jefferson getting so old.

And if LeBron leaves- you could flip Crowder and the 2 year 14M left on his contract AFTER this year for a solid first round pick in about half a second.

Then you get to the pick. Which makes the trade worth while. RIGHT NOW- there are at least 2 studs in this upcoming draft in Bagley and Porter- each of whom would have gone #1 this year. These are guys that are closer to the Anthony Davis tier than they are to the Markelle Fultz tier. There are a number of other players that fall into that Fultz/Ball/Fox tier.

Out of all the best teams in the league- the teams where a star that becomes avaliable would want to go to-- Cleveland has the best asset (unless Boston wants to trade Tatum). If Cousins, or Marc Gasol, or even Paul George, or WHO KNOWS become available- the Cavs will be in the best position to get that guy.

Not only that- but the Cavs are also- from what i have read- the favorites to add Wade. That would be a helluva bench scorer and 2nd unit leader. Hes not CLOSE to All Star DWADE anymore- but 20-25 minutes off the bench? Sign me up for that.

So- as i said? is Kyrie Irving a top 15 player? YES. Much clutch player in the game? DEFINITELY can make that argument. Am i disappointed hes gone? of course. Did the Cavs get a big time haul for him? FUCK YES. Its a trade that helps them both short term- and potentially long term. If you think 34 year old 1st year GM Koby Altman was the main architect behind this deal- you obviously havent beeen paying attention.

Also- obviously Zizic is an after thought in a deal this big- but he is a legit young big man that would have gone in the top 20 in this draft. As would have Cedi Osman. Those are 2 other decent assets the Cavs have- whether they want to keep them and have some cheap labor- or use them in a deal.



If LeBron told the Cavs- ill stay 2 more years- I think they could DEFINITELY pull off a Gasol deal.

Maybe if they are lucky Cousins will self destruct, and the Cavs can work out a deal with the Pelicans for Anthony Davis (this is a pipe dream I know- but hey - ya never know)- the Cavs could offer the Brooklyn pick, flip Crowder for another solid first rounder, and add Zizic, Osman). Who is trumping that?

He's close to 25 to 30.

 

[The Q]

Also interesting thought:

The Celtics gave up WAY more Bledsoe and Jackson.

Which Phoenix wasn't willing to part with.

So Danny not only overpaid, he bid against himself basically.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Who are the best big men in the East?

1. Embiid
2. Love
3. Porzingis
4. Drummond
5. Turner

???

Talk about mad and butt hurt.
Just admit what we all know and move on.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Also interesting thought:

The Celtics gave up WAY more Bledsoe and Jackson.

Which Phoenix wasn't willing to part with.

So Danny not only overpaid, he bid against himself basically.

Difference is he needed I.T. gone before next summer.
He's also betting James leaves.
The pick has high upside, but no guarantees.
If James leaves, it doesn't matter who the pick ends up being.

 

[The Q]

Difference is he needed I.T. gone before next summer.
He's also betting James leaves.
The pick has high upside, but no guarantees.
If James leaves, it doesn't matter who the pick ends up being.

Of course it does.

The goal isn't (or shouldn't be) to get swept in the finals.

The goal should be to win it.

This team has NO CHANCE of winning it.

I'd rather have rolled the dice with the pick and lose IT than make this move.

But if Danny was hell bent on making a move, Cousins was the guy.

 

[msgkings322]

538 talks about the trade. Bottom line, anyone who thinks this trade is lopsided either way are being dumb. There are good reasons each team did the deal, and there are variables still to be determined to see who "won":

How high is the Brooklyn pick, IT's health, Kyrie's effectiveness on another team, etc. A lot is still TBD.

The Celtics Didn’t Mortgage Their Future — They Insured It

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Of course it does.

The goal isn't (or shouldn't be) to get swept in the finals.

The goal should be to win it.

This team has NO CHANCE of winning it.

I'd rather have rolled the dice with the pick and lose IT than make this move.

But if Danny was hell bent on making a move, Cousins was the guy.

I wasn't aware the Cousins was on the trade market.
Celts doesn't didn't want I.T. long term.
IMO, Cavs won't either.
Why would you assume Pelicans would want to give hm a max?

 

[tlance]

538 talks about the trade. Bottom line, anyone who thinks this trade is lopsided either way are being dumb. There are good reasons each team did the deal, and there are variables still to be determined to see who "won":

How high is the Brooklyn pick, IT's health, Kyrie's effectiveness on another team, etc. A lot is still TBD.

The Celtics Didn’t Mortgage Their Future — They Insured It

How can you say that?

Not one person is saying the deal is lopsided in Boston's favor. Not 1.

Some think it helps Boston. Nobody thinks it is lopsided in their favor.

It really doesn't matter what happens in the future. Nobody else was willing to pay anywhere near the price that Ainge did. He overpaid, plain and simple. Cleveland HAD to trade Kyrie and they returned more than face value. The deals involving George and Butler returned 60 or 70 cents on the dollar. Cleveland got $1.30.

There is a reason why Cleveland fans are all thrilled with this deal and many Boston fans are not.

 

[msgkings322]

How can you say that?

Not one person is saying the deal is lopsided in Boston's favor. Not 1.

Some think it helps Boston. Nobody thinks it is lopsided in their favor.

It really doesn't matter what happens in the future. Nobody else was willing to pay anywhere near the price that Ainge did. He overpaid, plain and simple. Cleveland HAD to trade Kyrie and they returned more than face value. The deals involving George and Butler returned 60 or 70 cents on the dollar. Cleveland got $1.30.

There is a reason why Cleveland fans are all thrilled with this deal and many Boston fans are not.

And yet, if IT's injury is a problem and the Brooklyn pick is #9 and Kyrie crushes it in Boston...

 

[tlance]

And yet, if IT's injury is a problem and the Brooklyn pick is #9 and Kyrie crushes it in Boston...

Then what?

Boston is the 5th best team in the NBA?

 

[The Q]

538 talks about the trade. Bottom line, anyone who thinks this trade is lopsided either way are being dumb. There are good reasons each team did the deal, and there are variables still to be determined to see who "won":

How high is the Brooklyn pick, IT's health, Kyrie's effectiveness on another team, etc. A lot is still TBD.

The Celtics Didn’t Mortgage Their Future — They Insured It

He should've said Limited their future.

All it did was basically guarantee no title run with 31 year old Al and 27 year old Hayward.

God damn it where's that annoying Celtics fan who called me a troll. This guy said what I did.

This deal doesn't help them in the short term, and it hurts them in the long term....he just somehow tried to put a positive spin on that.

 

[The Q]

And yet, if IT's injury is a problem and the Brooklyn pick is #9 and Kyrie crushes it in Boston...

Kyrie would have to do things he hasn't done in 6 years in the league already.

and boston only gets him for ONE more year than they had IT.

It's a steep price for one extra year of the same caliber of player.

 

[The Q]

Then what?

Boston is the 5th best team in the NBA?

Exactly.

It only insures that they never win a title.

He admits that the GS super team route was not making this move, then tries to justify this baffling level of Ainge stupidity anyway.