Kap by the Numbers

[rjshull]

He could be one of the most dangerous weapons in the league, and yet he is limited to a run first offense where the offensive coordinator can't put together a decent passing attack...

Makes a lot of sense... You can also say well he has Boldin, Crabtree and VD, thats great... But in reality he has an aging WR, a WR that just came off a devistating injury and a TE that did put up great numbers this season catching balls from, you guessed it... Colin Kaepernick...

Last season before Crabtree's injury he was quickly becoming one of those top tier WR (or close to it) playing with Kap...

But again, lets not put any of the blame with a coordinator who can't come up with a decent passing game, using the same part of the field over and over again while ignoring several other options to slow defenses... Instead, why not use at as an argument to why it is the number one reason why Kap should be elite... Again, makes a lot of sense...

For years the argument has been that we have not been able to open up the passing game because we did not have the QB to do so, but now that we have a new QB the blame is on the OC?

 

[TobyTyler]

Forget all this "Top Ten Quarterback" stuff. What the 49ers need to determine is can they get where they want to be with kaepernick as the QB. If the answer is "yes" then sign him to a big contract, if its "no" then let him walk.

 

[whysies]

I don't get why we have to be bound to and haunted by QBs that can't get it done. This fanbase has been so fucking Stockholmed. We are cursed. It makes me really sad.

 

[-AC-]

For years the argument has been that we have not been able to open up the passing game because we did not have the QB to do so, but now that we have a new QB the blame is on the OC?

I guess you are OK with being dead last in the league in pass attempts? You must be OK with them not knowing how to run a screen pass and use some of the speed and elusiveness that the RB's have? Or maybe a slant pass to one of the larger WR's that can easily shield off smaller CB's?

Its pretty basic stuff, but apparently Roman doesn't see it that way... A young QB can really use these type of plays to their advantage, but only if they are called during the game...

 

[NinerSickness]

If DumbDumb threw a screen pass it would travel 75 miles an hour.

 

[whysies]

I don't care for the playcalling either but Roman isn't the one who can't read a defense, locks onto receivers, has no awareness of the playclock/gameclock, or gets chased around by ghosts.

 

[rjshull]

I am just curious... A lot of people here have claimed that kaep is a top 10 QB but what I would want to know is exactly what metrics are those people using when they claim top 10 status? What quantifiable proof can they put forth showing Kaep as a top 10 QB in the league? I hope they would give more proof than win-loss record because Win-Loss record reflects a the whole teams' effort.. So what qunatifiable proff is there to back up the claim that Kaep is top 10?

And that is part of the problem, there is no way in hell that Kap is a top 10 QB. What has he done that is better than Smith? There is nothing! Just compare their stats, Kap has started 24 games in his career, over Smith's last 24 games started with the 9ers their stats are about the same.
Kap
4957 Yards
93.9 QBR
31/11 TD/INT
7.62 Y/A

Smith
4803 Yards
95.8 QBR
30/10 TD/INT
7.54 Y/A

Other than Kap's legs they are the same freaking QB, why the hell would we want to give top 10 money to a guy that is not top 10?

 

[FourBeeDen]

Quick question.. If your OC calls a play and the QB audibles out of that play and it fails, do you blame the OC?

 

[rjshull]

I guess you are OK with being dead last in the league in pass attempts? You must be OK with them not knowing how to run a screen pass and use some of the speed and elusiveness that the RB's have? Or maybe a slant pass to one of the larger WR's that can easily shield off smaller CB's?

Its pretty basic stuff, but apparently Roman doesn't see it that way... A young QB can really use these type of plays to their advantage, but only if they are called during the game...

So what is fair for Kap is not fair for Smith, got it! If you want to blame the lack of a passing attack on Roman than it had to be the same with Smith, but no, with Smith he was a shitty QB so we had to trade him.

 

[MHSL82]

He could be one of the most dangerous weapons in the league, and yet he is limited to a run first offense where the offensive coordinator can't put together a decent passing attack...

Makes a lot of sense... You can also say well he has Boldin, Crabtree and VD, thats great... But in reality he has an aging WR, a WR that just came off a devistating injury and a TE that did put up great numbers this season catching balls from, you guessed it... Colin Kaepernick...

Last season before Crabtree's injury he was quickly becoming one of those top tier WR (or close to it) playing with Kap...

But again, lets not put any of the blame with a coordinator who can't come up with a decent passing game, using the same part of the field over and over again while ignoring several other options to slow defenses... Instead, why not use at as an argument to why it is the number one reason why Kap should be elite... Again, makes a lot of sense...

This could be applied to all of Harbaugh's QBs - Luck, Smith, and Kaepernick. Luck was a great college QB, but in terms of production, it was clear that Harbaugh/Roman liked to run the ball. You already made the case for Kaepernick. Smith is third in ranking on this list, but in a more pass happy version of this offense, his production would be higher, though efficiency would in all likelihood, drop a bit. I'm waiting until next season to see Smith in a pass happy offense for two reasons: one, Reid's offense will be in year two with likely better receivers (I know people hate this) and two, he'll face better defenses next year.

My point? Basing a QB on production without looking at the system is silly. Kaepernick could be elite in a pass happy version of this offense, Smith could be more productive in a pass happy version of this offense. Luck would perhaps be even bigger? (I don't know how good his runningback was.)

It's better to gage a QB based upon his football smarts, physical abilities, decision-making, caliber of throws, third down conversion rates, mobility, red zone conversion rates, etc. If a QB is artificially high in production, these things will show his abilities, good or bad, better.

 

[MHSL82]

I am just curious... A lot of people here have claimed that kaep is a top 10 QB but what I would want to know is exactly what metrics are those people using when they claim top 10 status? What quantifiable proof can they put forth showing Kaep as a top 10 QB in the league? I hope they would give more proof than win-loss record because Win-Loss record reflects a the whole teams' effort.. So what qunatifiable proff is there to back up the claim that Kaep is top 10?

Kaepernick was 6th last year in passer rating (98.3) and ninth this year (91.6). Then again, Smith was ninth in 2011 (90.7) and 3rd in 2012 (104.1). Smith was ninth this year until his Indy regular season game. People will explain away Smith's but not Kaepernick's. Kaepernick played with house money last year and got to 7th in rating. They went more conservative this year and he came out ninth. I blame the supporting cast and offensive philosophy. Kaepernick needs to play free like he did in 2012.

 

[-AC-]

This could be applied to all of Harbaugh's QBs - Luck, Smith, and Kaepernick. Luck was a great college QB, but in terms of production, it was clear that Harbaugh/Roman liked to run the ball. You already made the case for Kaepernick. Smith is third in ranking on this list, but in a more pass happy version of this offense, his production would be higher, though efficiency would in all likelihood, drop a bit. I'm waiting until next season to see Smith in a pass happy offense for two reasons: one, Reid's offense will be in year two with likely better receivers (I know people hate this) and two, he'll face better defenses next year.

My point? Basing a QB on production without looking at the system is silly. Kaepernick could be elite in a pass happy version of this offense, Smith could be more productive in a pass happy version of this offense. Luck would perhaps be even bigger? (I don't know how good his runningback was.)

It's better to gage a QB based upon his football smarts, physical abilities, decision-making, caliber of throws, third down conversion rates, mobility, red zone conversion rates, etc. If a QB is artificially high in production, these things will show his abilities, good or bad, better.

My beef with Roman is he isn't utilizing the efficient plays like screen's and slants... I think they are simple plays that will open up the rest of the passing game to a certain extent... It just adds another element that the defense would have to deal with and account for, its an untapped aspect in this offense... I go back to the Seattle game, and look at Wilson's start to the game. The Seattle Offensive coordinator recognized his struggles and went to a quick hitting play selection mixed in with other safe passing plays. It was completely noticeable and the results speak for them self. I don't recall any game, Roman making the same type of adjustments to help his QB out...

Greg Roman is fantastic with the running game, but is the exact opposite with the passing game...

 

[MHSL82]

My beef with Roman is he isn't utilizing the efficient plays like screen's and slants... I think they are simple plays that will open up the rest of the passing game to a certain extent... It just adds another element that the defense would have to deal with and account for, its an untapped aspect in this offense... I go back to the Seattle game, and look at Wilson's start to the game. The Seattle Offensive coordinator recognized his struggles and went to a quick hitting play selection mixed in with other safe passing plays. It was completely noticeable and the results speak for them self. I don't recall any game, Roman making the same type of adjustments to help his QB out...

Greg Roman is fantastic with the running game, but is the exact opposite with the passing game...

Time for some .

Maybe Kaepernick isn't his QB? Maybe he wants a QB to lean on his running "genius" schemes? Maybe Harbaugh wants to call plays and wants to ax Roman, making it clear that it was Roman calling the plays?

Ok, taking off the hat, now.

 

[FourBeeDen]

It's interesting that a lot of blanket statements on what Roman is not calling yet I have to wonder if these claims are based on events witnessed with blinders or actual film study? To blanketly say that Roman does not utilize slants based on personal opinion is meaningless.. Show me proof that Niners do not call slants... Or if you can, review the plays and not concentrate on 1 receiver running one route, but all the receivers... Once you've done that and can still claim that there are no slant patterns, then I will gladly agree with you

 

[sjballer03]

Time for some .

Maybe Kaepernick isn't his QB? Maybe he wants a QB to lean on his running "genius" schemes? Maybe Harbaugh wants to call plays and wants to ax Roman, making it clear that it was Roman calling the plays?

Ok, taking off the hat, now.

Haha I didn't know they had the emoticon.

It's clear to me that Harbaugh needs to take over more of the play-calling duties. NFL defenses have figured out Roman for the most part. There's a reason why he was only running game coordinator at Stanford.

 

[MHSL82]

Haha I didn't know they had the emoticon.

It's clear to me that Harbaugh needs to take over more of the play-calling duties. NFL defenses have figured out Roman for the most part. There's a reason why he was only running game coordinator at Stanford.

There are a lot and you could request another if you have any in mind. http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/site-announcements-help-suggestions/127662-smiley-requests.html

 

[-AC-]

Why Greg Roman's Play-Calling Is Holding Back the San Francisco 49ers | Bleacher Report

For anyone that cares to read, its an interesting article that you can take away what you want from it... I know its the dreaded BR, but it cites many SF writers for the information that makes up a lot of the article...

I get that people have their minds made up on Kap, and thats understandable. But atleast look at the other problems within the offense (starting from the top) before you completely pin it all on the QB...

 

[whysies]

Why Greg Roman's Play-Calling Is Holding Back the San Francisco 49ers | Bleacher Report

For anyone that cares to read, its an interesting article that you can take away what you want from it... I know its the dreaded BR, but it cites many SF writers for the information that makes up a lot of the article...

I get that people have their minds made up on Kap, and thats understandable. But atleast look at the other problems within the offense (starting from the top) before you completely pin it all on the QB...

I don't think anyone completely pins it on the QB (except for maybe Sick).

Who else pinned it all on the QB?

I think you might be straw manning here my man.

 

[-AC-]

I don't think anyone completely pins it on the QB (except for maybe Sick).

Who else pinned it all on the QB?

I think you might be straw manning here my man.

For years the argument has been that we have not been able to open up the passing game because we did not have the QB to do so, but now that we have a new QB the blame is on the OC?

Its not just Sick...

But like I said, you can read the article if you want...

 

[whysies]

For years the argument has been that we have not been able to open up the passing game because we did not have the QB to do so, but now that we have a new QB the blame is on the OC?

Its not just Sick...

But like I said, you can read the article if you want...

I'm not a fan of the play calling either. I'm not going to read it because I assume its just saying the same crap I have been thinking about Roman.

Anyway, I don't really read that quote to say "it's all the QBs fault." To me it just more speaks to the strange blame shifting we as fans have been doing for the past decade or so.

It has been a traumatic time. The ghost of Alex Smith looms very large.