JvR

[Maverick426h]

I've been watching the Ducks play the Leafs tonight and this kid is putting on a show. He has two dandy assists to Kessel (the second clinched a hat trick) and just a couple minutes ago drove wide with speed to draw a penalty shot, then pinged the backhanded attempt off the crossbar.

He now has 5 goals, 3 assists and 8 points in 8 games. That's the same production that our top two scorers (B. Schenn and McGinn) have had in 11 games combined.

With all due respect to L. Schenn, I would've kept JvR. Those of you that had given up on him in the past and argued with me over what to do with him realize that this has been my position from day one.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Unfortunately I bet the Flyers would have still found a way to under utilize him - he's being utilized right in Toronto and he's playing with the right guys

 

[raptorlife4]

Hindsight

 

[flyersfan4706]

For as good as Luke has been, the JVR trade should be a reminder to not trade Couturier.

 

[raptorlife4]

JVR has also missed 2 games this season already. Injuries were a big problem in Philly

 

[Maverick426h]

Hindsight

Again, this is why I specifically stated that it was my position from day one to keep him. This isn't a hindsight call here. I saw this ahead of time.

 

[awaz]

Even now I'd still probably do the trade. The flyers have (had) an abundance of young forwards with skill and have (had) very few young dman with skill. JvR and L Schenn are both streaky young players and the flyers need the defensive version of that player more than the offensive version of it right now. Massive goal scoring slump aside.

 

[WOOTPOKER]

no disrespect to luke schenn but i would rather have JVR over schenn. i feel that the overall contribution over the next few years that JVR would give you versus schenn is more important.

i love schenn and i think he's going to be a big time player for us, but i think that if anything, the trade should have been JVR for schenn and a 2nd or 1st

 

[Maverick426h]

Unfortunately I bet the Flyers would have still found a way to under utilize him - he's being utilized right in Toronto and he's playing with the right guys

Speaking of not utilizing someone, isn't that exactly what we're doing with Luke Schenn? I do actually like this kid, but how on earth is he our sixth defenseman? He played about 22 minutes a game for us last season and now it's suddenly just 15 minutes or by far the lowest on our team among the defense. Wtf is going on here? It makes me wonder if Luke is hurt and we're just easing him back into play.

 

[lasgop8]

It's funny how these posts are on here everytime JVR plays well but when he disappears for 10 games i never see these on here.
If anything everyone here should be pissed at him for wasting away in philly for 6 years and then going somewhere else and being semi productive. If anyone watches his game these days he stands in front of the net and and hits the corners now and then. He never even came near the front of the net and certainly never went into a corner while he was on our team.
Schenn blocks shots is near the league leaders in hits year in and year out, clears the front of the net and drops his gloves when he needs to all things JVR never brought to the table here. Even swap.

 

[Maverick426h]

It's funny how these posts are on here everytime JVR plays well but when he disappears for 10 games i never see these on here.
If anything everyone here should be pissed at him for wasting away in philly for 6 years and then going somewhere else and being semi productive. If anyone watches his game these days he stands in front of the net and and hits the corners now and then. He never even came near the front of the net and certainly never went into a corner while he was on our team.
Schenn blocks shots is near the league leaders in hits year in and year out, clears the front of the net and drops his gloves when he needs to all things JVR never brought to the table here. Even swap.

Disappears for 10 games? His longest scoring drought with Toronto is 5 games and that happened once last season. This season, he has yet to be held without a point in consecutive games.

I don't know where you're getting 6 years in Philly from. He was drafted in '07, played 2 years at New Hampshire, then 2 and a half seasons with the Flyers in Philly. None of that adds up to 6.

I just watched his game last night and he was the ONLY reason that Kessel got a hat trick with two gorgeous assists on a couple of his goals. Then he drew a penalty shot with his speed and rang the crossbar with a backhander that had the goalie beat.

I agree with the positives on Schenn, but if he's truly that good, why the fuck is he only playing 15 minutes a game for us this season? Grossmann is averaging 3 more minutes while Streit, Gus, Timonen and Coburn are all averaging 5+ minutes more per game.

Nobody in their right mind would trade a defenseman averaging 15 minutes per game for a top line winger averaging 21 minutes a game. Well, that's what Luke and James are this season to this point...

 

[FlyerFinFan]

Even now I'd still probably do the trade. The flyers have (had) an abundance of young forwards with skill and have (had) very few young dman with skill. JvR and L Schenn are both streaky young players and the flyers need the defensive version of that player more than the offensive version of it right now. Massive goal scoring slump aside.

I completely agree with Awaz the trade was necessary and fair at the time. Luke will only get better over time and I'm sure JVR will too. Flyers needed and I mean needed dmen at the time especially crease clearers who can drop them if necessary.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Disappears for 10 games? His longest scoring drought with Toronto is 5 games and that happened once last season. This season, he has yet to be held without a point in consecutive games.

I don't know where you're getting 6 years in Philly from. He was drafted in '07, played 2 years at New Hampshire, then 2 and a half seasons with the Flyers in Philly. None of that adds up to 6.

I just watched his game last night and he was the ONLY reason that Kessel got a hat trick with two gorgeous assists on a couple of his goals. Then he drew a penalty shot with his speed and rang the crossbar with a backhander that had the goalie beat.

I agree with the positives on Schenn, but if he's truly that good, why the fuck is he only playing 15 minutes a game for us this season? Grossmann is averaging 3 more minutes while Streit, Gus, Timonen and Coburn are all averaging 5+ minutes more per game.

Nobody in their right mind would trade a defenseman averaging 15 minutes per game for a top line winger averaging 21 minutes a game. Well, that's what Luke and James are this season to this point...

Bingo

 

[Maverick426h]

I completely agree with Awaz the trade was necessary and fair at the time. Luke will only get better over time and I'm sure JVR will too. Flyers needed and I mean needed dmen at the time especially crease clearers who can drop them if necessary.

That's true. Timing had a lot to do with this, but I'm starting to wonder what's wrong with Luke this season. We're playing him like he's our sixth defenseman and we sure as hell wouldn't have traded JvR for Schenn if Schenn was just going to be our sixth defenseman. Last season, he was a top pairing guy and played well with Timonen, but what the hell is going on this season?

 

[lasgop8]

Disappears for 10 games? His longest scoring drought with Toronto is 5 games and that happened once last season. This season, he has yet to be held without a point in consecutive games.

I don't know where you're getting 6 years in Philly from. He was drafted in '07, played 2 years at New Hampshire, then 2 and a half seasons with the Flyers in Philly. None of that adds up to 6.

I just watched his game last night and he was the ONLY reason that Kessel got a hat trick with two gorgeous assists on a couple of his goals. Then he drew a penalty shot with his speed and rang the crossbar with a backhander that had the goalie beat.

I agree with the positives on Schenn, but if he's truly that good, why the fuck is he only playing 15 minutes a game for us this season? Grossmann is averaging 3 more minutes while Streit, Gus, Timonen and Coburn are all averaging 5+ minutes more per game.

Nobody in their right mind would trade a defenseman averaging 15 minutes per game for a top line winger averaging 21 minutes a game. Well, that's what Luke and James are this season to this point...

Number 1 i get 6 years because i expect number 2 overall pick to come right into the NHL and play for the big club right away so you should be even more mad at him for going to NH instead of just playing hockey here. Going to NH stunted his growth everyone knows that so i count the time he was drafted in which he shouldve played in the NHL.
Number 2 getting a secondary assist in a game doesnt mean he has played well so the 5 games you brought up are irrelevant , he disappears in games all the time you should know that by watching him play with us and i see him do nothing for long stretches with Toronto.
I agree he played a good game last night but that just makes me mad and say why couldnt he play in front of the net for us or pass like he did last night for us.
He started off just like this last season and finished 65th in scoring so disappearing for long stretches he has done in the past and will do in the future.
Schenn is what we got for him i am not worried about losing JVR in the least bit.
And lets not forget he gets hurt quite often for a guy his size.

 

[awaz]

That's true. Timing had a lot to do with this, but I'm starting to wonder what's wrong with Luke this season. We're playing him like he's our sixth defenseman and we sure as hell wouldn't have traded JvR for Schenn if Schenn was just going to be our sixth defenseman. Last season, he was a top pairing guy and played well with Timonen, but what the hell is going on this season?

i am sure that wasn't the plan and still isn't the plan.. but players ice time will fluctuate with injuries and hot/cold streaks.. thats just how it works.. plus, as i've said enough that it's probably annoying people, the flyers defense is not that bad. individually they are talented hockey players. and if you rank them based on what they've proven in the NHL, i would have luke schenn as the flyers 5th best dman

timonen
coburn
grossmann
mesz
streit
schenn
gus

but there's been a good amount of pair juggling going on and i think the coaches are just trying to figure out the right pairs.. at the end of the day, schenn will probably play on the 2nd PK unit and with a puck mover at even strength. if he plays with a guy like streit, he probably won't get used all that extensively 5 on 5 because streit is not a good DEFENDer. even more so if he's paired with gus. if they stick with the pairings as they are, they're going to play timonen's pair and a coburn/grossmann pair more often then not because they trust those pairings. and they have frequently used the youngest dman with timonen to help him learn and help cover for glaring mistakes, and hopefully giving you a 3rd pair that isn't awful, a la, streit/schenn.

but this trade wasn't made thinking short term. when timonen retires and mesz moves on next year (or is scratched as he has been), boom, schenn is your 3rd best dman behind coburn and grossmann, the latter of which has been very injury prone.

 

[Maverick426h]

Boy, if the Leafs were to somehow win a Cup with JvR (as the Kings have with Richards, Carter and Williams in addition to the Hawks with Sharp) while we don't win one with Schenn, it's going to turn this whole discussion around in a hurry.

65th in scoring last season apparently wasn't too bad either. That tied with Seguin, Cammalleri, Richards, Lecavalier and Bergeron. Only Giroux and Voracek managed better on our squad. Only 17 players scored more goals than JvR last season and only 10 so far this season.

I'm alright with the trade if we're utilizing Schenn like we did last season, but suddenly he appears to be thought of as our worst defenseman this season and I still feel JvR is a superstar in the making.

 

[raptorlife4]

Having watched a good chunk of Leafs games this season. JVR is developing into a force. Him and Kessel are magic right now.

 

[awaz]

For as good as Luke has been, the JVR trade should be a reminder to not trade Couturier. or BSchenn

moral of the story.

 

[lasgop8]

Boy, if the Leafs were to somehow win a Cup with JvR (as the Kings have with Richards, Carter and Williams in addition to the Hawks with Sharp) while we don't win one with Schenn, it's going to turn this whole discussion around in a hurry.

65th in scoring last season apparently wasn't too bad either. That tied with Seguin, Cammalleri, Richards, Lecavalier and Bergeron. Only Giroux and Voracek managed better on our squad. Only 17 players scored more goals than JvR last season and only 10 so far this season.

I'm alright with the trade if we're utilizing Schenn like we did last season, but suddenly he appears to be thought of as our worst defenseman this season and I still feel JvR is a superstar in the making.

If the Leafs win the Stanley cup ill put the "mole" up as my Avi.
Difference with the Kings is they had Carter and Richards as their second line where as we had them as our top line.