Just for fun: if you could see any player from past eras play in today's NBA, who would you want to see?

[The Q]

Nope.

Post play is dead because it isn’t efficient within the modern rules.

Much easier to double and take away a dominant post player.

Teams aren’t going to let Shaq catch spin and dunk 5 times a game.

They widened the lane for no reason

 

[tc1]

Post play is dead because it isn’t efficient within the modern rules.

Much easier to double and take away a dominant post player.

Teams aren’t going to let Shaq catch spin and dunk 5 times a game.

Your theory does not make sense. What are all teams constantly talking about, and seeking, on offense? Spacing.

What do you get if you have a big that requires constant doubling, even when he isn't in-possession?

Spacing.

Such a player would be the most valuable in the league, since opponents would be forced to choose between devoting 40% of their defense to him, or letting him score at an extremely high efficiency.

 

[tlance]

Your theory does not make sense. What are all teams constantly talking about, and seeking, on offense? Spacing.

What do you get if you have a big that requires constant doubling, even when he isn't in-possession?

Spacing.

Such a player would be the most valuable in the league, since opponents would be forced to choose between devoting 40% of their defense to him, or letting him score at an extremely high efficiency.

Of course.

There are easier ways to space the floor.

If that were the best way to space, more teams would constantly use a post player.

Nobody saying Shaq would be bad today.

But of all the greats in all the eras, Shaq and Wilt probably the two that would have the toughest time adjusting to today’s rules.

Shaq more than Wilt because I think Wilt would still be a plus defender.

 

[tc1]

If that were the best way to space, more teams would constantly use a post player.

Where are they going to get one? As I said, no one teaches these skills to kids anymore, and the kids don't want to learn them anyway.

So we wind up with even guys like Wembanyama chucking up almost 9 threes a game, and hurting his team with each one.

Never mind Embiid shooting 31% from the arc, and killing the Sixers with those shots.

 

[tlance]

Where are they going to get one? As I said, no one teaches these skills to kids anymore, and the kids don't want to learn them anyway.

So we wind up with even guys like Wembanyama chucking up almost 9 threes a game, and hurting his team with each one.

Never mind Embiid shooting 31% from the arc, and killing the Sixers with those shots.

There are plenty of players who can score in the post.

Most of them are European, but they are out there.

And Wemby is a wing player. Shouldn’t even be included in this conversation.

 

[tc1]

There are plenty of players who can score in the post.

There are not plenty who have a professional caliber post game. I don't think there are even 6.

Most of them are European, but they are out there.

Because some in Europe still teach it.

And Wemby is a wing player. Shouldn’t even be included in this conversation.

He's 7 damn 4, he does not belong on the wing. That he thinks he does probably explains a lot about why he had one of the worst rookie seasons that a highly-rated #1 pick has ever had.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Was just gonna post the same.

Back then, Shaq was so quick when he got the ball that it made having someone come to double him almost pointless because they couldn't get there in time.

These days he'd be doubled before they could throw it in to him...which makes it harder to get the ball to him in the first place and more difficult for him to make a move when he did get it.

Makes him equally as dominant though. An immediate double team means a wide open 3. No double means a dunk

 

[tlance]

There are not plenty who have a professional caliber post game. I don't think there are even 6.


Because some in Europe still teach it.


He's 7 damn 4, he does not belong on the wing. That he thinks he does probably explains a lot about why he had one of the worst rookie seasons that a highly-rated #1 pick has ever had.

LOL.

Worst seasons a #1 pick has ever had?

Go ahead and make up more BS

Incredibly false

Congrats, that is your worst take yet. And you have had some terrible ones.

 

[trojanfan12]

Makes him equally as dominant though. An immediate double team means a wide open 3. No double means a dunk

True as long as the opponent is hitting their 3's. No one has said Shaq wouldn't still be a load and a dominant player on offense. So, not sure why the convo seems to have stuck on it.

The main push back for him is defense. Shaq hated defending the pick and roll, even back then, when it wasn't used as much because most of the bigs weren't quite as mobile. In today's game, teams would be pick and rolling him all game long which would mean him getting beat to the basket and/or getting in foul trouble. Also, in todays game, most bigs can defend from the rim to the 3 point line...Shaq isn't doing that.

Mobile centers used to give Shaq fits defensively...to this day he refers to Hakeem Olajuwon as "Mr. Olajuwon" because of what he used to do to him when they played each other. Heck, Vlade used to hold his own vs. Shaq because he had a little range and was mobile (and could occasionally draw fouls on him with his flops lol).

 

[UK Cowboy]

True as long as the opponent is hitting their 3's. No one has said Shaq wouldn't still be a load and a dominant player on offense. So, not sure why the convo seems to have stuck on it.

The main push back for him is defense. Shaq hated defending the pick and roll, even back then, when it wasn't used as much because most of the bigs weren't quite as mobile. In today's game, teams would be pick and rolling him all game long which would mean him getting beat to the basket and/or getting in foul trouble. Also, in todays game, most bigs can defend from the rim to the 3 point line...Shaq isn't doing that.

Mobile centers used to give Shaq fits defensively...to this day he refers to Hakeem Olajuwon as "Mr. Olajuwon" because of what he used to do to him when they played each other. Heck, Vlade used to hold his own vs. Shaq because he had a little range and was mobile (and could occasionally draw fouls on him with his flops lol).

Yeah man but I rank this right up there with Luka's conditioning and defensive "problems" for a guy that's 25 and has 5 first team all NBA's and a Finals appearance at 25. And...lol. you bring up Hakeem, and rightfully so. There are zero Hakeems today. No David Robinsons. No Patrick Ewings. There are so many scrub centers in todays game. Let's take the very best one. You really think Joel Embiid's soft ass is hanging with Diesel? That bitch would miss half the season after a game against Shaq. No worries, he would just "Load Manage" the next 20 times they saw each other on the schedule

 

[tlance]

Yeah man but I rank this right up there with Luka's conditioning and defensive "problems" for a guy that's 25 and has 5 first team all NBA's and a Finals appearance at 25. And...lol. you bring up Hakeem, and rightfully so. There are zero Hakeems today. No David Robinsons. No Patrick Ewings. There are so many scrub centers in todays game. Let's take the very best one. You really think Joel Embiid's soft ass is hanging with Diesel? That bitch would miss half the season after a game against Shaq. No worries, he would just "Load Manage" the next 20 times they saw each other on the schedule

Could Embiid stop Shaq?

Or course not.

But Shaq would have a much harder time guarding Embiid than Embiid would guarding Shaq.

You can say Embiid hasn’t had to guard anyone like Shaq, which is true.

But Shaq never had to guard anyone like Embiid either.

And easier to help on a player like Shaq than it is to help on a player like Embiid.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah man but I rank this right up there with Luka's conditioning and defensive "problems" for a guy that's 25 and has 5 first team all NBA's and a Finals appearance at 25. And...lol. you bring up Hakeem, and rightfully so. There are zero Hakeems today. No David Robinsons. No Patrick Ewings. There are so many scrub centers in todays game. Let's take the very best one. You really think Joel Embiid's soft ass is hanging with Diesel? That bitch would miss half the season after a game against Shaq. No worries, he would just "Load Manage" the next 20 times they saw each other on the schedule

Healthy Embiid would give Shaq trouble and so would AD because they could lure him out of the paint and beat him off the dribble. Joker would give him trouble because he can actually run Denver's offense himself from the 3 point line. Giannis would give him trouble for the same reasons AD and Embiid would, I could go on.

None of those players are stopping him offensively, which is the point...Shaq's biggest struggles in todays game would be on defense.

And no Robinsons or Ewings?...part of the reason those players gave Shaq trouble was because of their range which forced him to either let them shoot 15-20 footers uncontested so he could defend the paint...or go out on them and leave the paint open. Most of todays bigs have range, some to the 3-point line.

The big who played most like todays bigs back then was Vlade. As I pointed out, he used to hold his own against Shaq and most of todays bigs have as much or more range than Vlade and have better ballhandling skills.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Could Embiid stop Shaq?

Or course not.

But Shaq would have a much harder time guarding Embiid than Embiid would guarding Shaq.

You can say Embiid hasn’t had to guard anyone like Shaq, which is true.

But Shaq never had to guard anyone like Embiid either.

And easier to help on a player like Shaq than it is to help on a player like Embiid.

Plus/minus. Embiid is shooting 31.6% from 3 this season. Shaq would shoot 75% today and mostly dunks

 

[UK Cowboy]

Healthy Embiid would give Shaq trouble and so would AD because they could lure him out of the paint and beat him off the dribble. Joker would give him trouble because he can actually run Denver's offense himself from the 3 point line. Giannis would give him trouble for the same reasons AD and Embiid would, I could go on.

None of those players are stopping him offensively, which is the point...Shaq's biggest struggles in todays game would be on defense.

And no Robinsons or Ewings?...part of the reason those players gave Shaq trouble was because of their range which forced him to either let them shoot 15-20 footers uncontested so he could defend the paint...or go out on them and leave the paint open. Most of todays bigs have range, some to the 3-point line.

The big who played most like todays bigs back then was Vlade. As I pointed out, he used to hold his own against Shaq and most of todays bigs have as much or more range than Vlade and have better ballhandling skills.

Let's say you're right, let's say those couple of guys could hang, though their coach wouldn't let them try because they would foul out by halftime. What about the rest of the league lol? Who are the Lakers putting on him tonight?

 

[msgkings322]

Fine, shoot all the threes and pick-and-roll floaters that you want. You're still losing if you can't stop your opponent from dunking on every possession.

We already saw this play out once, and every team in the league was forced to sign every big strong player they could find, to try and stop O'Neal. He literally changed the make-up of the league, to a degree rarely, if ever, seen.

He did, but less so than Steph did

 

[msgkings322]

You could always double or triple the player in-possession. Did not matter then, and wouldn't now with much smaller players.


Look up anyone's midrange efficiency and compare to O'Neal dunking.

Look up anyone's 3-point efficiency and compare to O'Neal dunking.

Contrary to wishful thinking, like I said, and like the entire league learned 25 years ago, if you cannot stop a guy from dunking all over you, you lose. Your offensive strategy literally does not matter, at that point.

By the way, you betray your ignorance when you insinuate that O'Neal was unskilled. He was very skilled, and huge, so he focused on the correct skills -- not becoming a 30% 3-point shooter, which is a losing strategy.

If his dunking couldn't be stopped why was his shooting % significantly less than 100%? And why weren't his teams basically undefeated when he played?

 

[trojanfan12]

Let's say you're right

Always a good policy since I always am.

Let's say you're right, let's say those couple of guys could hang, though their coach wouldn't let them try because they would foul out by halftime. What about the rest of the league lol? Who are the Lakers putting on him tonight?

I named quite a few centers and you come back with a team that just traded one of the centers I mentioned...lol

Surrender accepted.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah man but I rank this right up there with Luka's conditioning and defensive "problems" for a guy that's 25 and has 5 first team all NBA's and a Finals appearance at 25. And...lol. you bring up Hakeem, and rightfully so. There are zero Hakeems today. No David Robinsons. No Patrick Ewings. There are so many scrub centers in todays game. Let's take the very best one. You really think Joel Embiid's soft ass is hanging with Diesel? That bitch would miss half the season after a game against Shaq. No worries, he would just "Load Manage" the next 20 times they saw each other on the schedule

Way to miss the point about defense, or rather ignore it. Also there are bigs today with Hakeem's level of skill like Jokic and Embiid and AD.

You keep fighting the straw man where you claim others are saying he'd be bad today. He'd be a very good player especially offensively, but in a limited role as a post only player, and would get cooked on defense. It's not all of nothing.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Always a good policy since I always am.



I named quite a few centers and you come back with a team that just traded one of the centers I mentioned...lol

Surrender accepted.

Surrender? You're arguing that Shaq would be bothered by todays soft as baby food rules and flopping Euro players and bean poles that would try and guard him, that a zone or double team would stop him, and that he couldn't D up in a league that rarely plays defense till the playoffs and at which time the added physicality would play to his favor. That's seriously your argument lol. Surrender? If by hysterical laughter you mean Surrender, then sure lol

 

[UK Cowboy]

Way to miss the point about defense, or rather ignore it. Also there are bigs today with Hakeem's level of skill like Jokic and Embiid and AD.

You keep fighting the straw man where you claim others are saying he'd be bad today. He'd be a very good player especially offensively, but in a limited role as a post only player, and would get cooked on defense. It's not all of nothing.

Shaq as a "limited role post only who gets cooked on D". Whatever you say fella LMAO