"Jay Cutler isn't the Answer"

[JoeyTourettes]

What should the Bears do? Live with a skilled but flawed QB (you're not going to be able to trade him or afford two Jay Cutler contracts), try to build an identity on defense and keep fortifying the offensive line. It's possible to win with a qb who isn't elite. It doesn't happen very often, but there are a couple of instances where it has worked. The odds are probably better that we'll win a SB accepting Cutler for the next few years and pouring our resources into building out other position groups than it would be putting more resources into the QB position at the expense of those other groups. I'm not blaming Jay or "nuthugging", just living in reality.

For the record... I think he's a good leader with great skill. He just makes bad throws at bad times. If we had an angry defense that was capable of burying opponents... Cutler may be good enough to help the team score enough points to win most games. I just don't think he's good enough to overcome a flawed defense like an elite QB could.

TooOver- Nice post... I tend to agree with just about everything. When we have seen "non elite" QB's win it's because of an elite aspect of the Team- Mostly Defense. Baltimore, Tampa Bay, even Seattle last year. (Russell is good...but he wasn't the reason they won)
I believe Jay could have won with Both Baltimore teams- (2001 and what was it 2009?- Though Flacco did play insane in the playoffs) he could have won with the Bears in 2006 too (but it was against Peyton... and he did dismantle that defense)

I think Jay is good enough to beat bad Defenses (Atlanta) And looks good doing it. I'm not sure if he can take it upon himself to beat good defense. OR keep pace with Good Offenses. The book has been, and I hate it, but it's probably true at this point- has been that if you make Jay dink and dunk down the field he will get antsy and try and take a shot...into tight coverage... force a ball...or have a dumb play on an easy first down. (3rd and 2 and tries the long ball yesterday) resulting in a punt.
I don't think he stares down receivers as much as he doesn't trust some... When he get's into trouble or is rushed he knows where Marshall is and tries to get it to him. Sometimes with poor results. Though I think he's improved with that throughout his time in Chicago.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

We hear that after every loss... after each bad pass. I get it. Gotta blame someone, and Jay is Thee Quarterback. I also get that the QB get's the glory and the blame. Comes with the territory.

I'm not writing a "Don't blame Jay thread" Not this week... Can't. He didn't get it done. Didn't do enough. I know that.

The sentiment of "Cutler's not the answer" needs something more.... an alternative.

If Not JAY...then who? That's the hard part. We know Jay's a Bear for the next 2 years. At least- $54M Guaranteed. IF cut then we take a major cap hit. So What are the OPTIONS? Let's discuss/list em.

The alternative is what?

#1. Draft A Rookie:
Any rookies winning the SB lately? No... So maybe use a top pick for Jay's replacement in 2 years- ala Aaron Rodgers and GB. Let him sit and learn. We have to weigh the benefit. Would a first round pick in another position help more? Help Jay? Would that be the way to go?

19 NFL Starting QB's were 1st round picks. None of them won early in their career. 8 were #1 picks, 9 if you include Vick- who hasn't started...yet.
I want Andrew Luck as much as the next guy...but I just don't see the Bears being bad enough in the next few years to get the NUMBER #1 pick. And no guarantee there either...see JaMarcus Russell- or any other number of guys, you want Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Sam Bradford, David Carr??

We do have 2 undrafted QB's starting now- Tony Romo... (who's 34 and get's almost as much second guessing as Cutler, and hasn't won a SB either, and Brian Hoyer... well does that name make anyone feel confident for future SB success?)
The Draft is so unpredictable, we all remember Cade McNown, and Rex Grossman...our past first round picks... just like the rest of the league- J.P. Losman anyone? Akili Smith #3 pick! Mark Sanchez...the list is endless for first round busts- you could land a 6th round Tom Brady- but it's highly unlikely. Maybe find a decent guy in the 2nd or 3rd round... but again- does that help or hurt your team if they aren't playing, and playing well- like a R. Wilson or Kaepernick. Would a 2nd round starting LB or S be better for the team then a "learning QB" sitting behind Jay?

#2. Get a Free Agent/Retread QB
I don't believe- Matt Schaub, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kyle Orton, Josh McCown or any other journeyman would be Superbowl winners either... and certainly not long term answers. I don't know who would be available next offseason... and doubt they could perform any better. (could be worse) And if we want LONG TERM success this can't be "the answer"

#3. Trade Jay Cutler
You can't cut him you will still owe him $32M and won't have a QB.
Trades need to pick up his current deal. Don't know who would do that- give up at least one #1 pick and some others- couple 3's? plus have to pay him what's owed? I just don't see that. And then the Bears are left with options 2 and 3. That's not making you better overnight.

#4. Wait... Tank.
Jay's in the first year of his huge deal. If you believe that he's "not the answer" then that leads me to also believe that the Bears won't be very good. I think we have to come to grips with the fact that he's here for the next 3 drafts. Will the bears have a top 12 pick in the next three drafts? Will there be a QB worth taking with the idea to take over for him? Then you have to pull the trigger, and draft him... And hope.

I'm not there yet. I still think this offense can do this- Marshall just resigned for another 3 years. Alshon is still very young. Bennett isn't going anywhere. I'd rather get some more high draft picks on the OLine. Continue to fix the defense with skill and depth. I'm not drafting a QB #1 until they have a top 5 pick. meaning they have lost 12+ games.
Jay's not going anywhere... until after the 2016 season. Who knows what those years will bring.

What's your alternative?

This whole argument was already totally debunked in other threads. Not re-raising a dead horse because you can't read, but Jesus Christ.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

What should the Bears do? Live with a skilled but flawed QB (you're not going to be able to trade him or afford two Jay Cutler contracts), try to build an identity on defense and keep fortifying the offensive line. It's possible to win with a qb who isn't elite. It doesn't happen very often, but there are a couple of instances where it has worked. The odds are probably better that we'll win a SB accepting Cutler for the next few years and pouring our resources into building out other position groups than it would be putting more resources into the QB position at the expense of those other groups. I'm not blaming Jay or "nuthugging", just living in reality.

For the record... I think he's a good leader with great skill. He just makes bad throws at bad times. If we had an angry defense that was capable of burying opponents... Cutler may be good enough to help the team score enough points to win most games. I just don't think he's good enough to overcome a flawed defense like an elite QB could.

Let me throw this question at you. I think there are actually teams that would trade for Cutler. Let's just pretend for a second that I am right. IF you could trade Cutler, would you?

We all already know that - no matter what - a guy who simply cannot drop the ADHD even now after all this time will not be able to put the three or four game run of flawless QB football needed to win the Super Bowl.

I'm done with Jay. As of now. If we could trade him, we should.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

In other words, I no longer feel Cutler can win us a Super Bowl, so why are we even bothering wasting these years? He hasn't displayed the killer instinct. He has had some mistake free games, but he never levels the "I own you and I won't screw it up" killer instinct Manning threw out at Denver last night.

Anyone trust him to not throw 2 INTs during at least one 3 game run? Maybe this weekend I will go through his game log and see how often he has pulled off a <2 turnover rate 3 games in a row. And against playoff defenses, yikes. This is all a fucking joke.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Cutler is not the problem people. Bad coaching and bad game plans are. Bad preparations and bad time management are. I could go on and on. but everyone already knows from day one my stance on our coaching staff. Cutler is a good QB. Best we ever had. Nowhere near perfect but plenty to win with. It's time to admit we have many bigger problems then QB. I wish it was only the QB.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

If you are doing research Cali then tell me Jays stats in games we run a 50/50 offense.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

This whole argument was already totally debunked in other threads. Not re-raising a dead horse because you can't read, but Jesus Christ.

Man some of you are just pissed off for being pissed off. Can nobody pose a fucking question then Cali? I'm not going fucking anywhere. You don't like- don't read my fucking posts.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

And... It's not an argument in need of debunking- you dink... it's proposing a question. I gave some options- you said you are done with Cutler- fine. You want to do some research on 3 game stretches with less then 2 turnovers- fine. I'm sure you will find what your looking for. I'm not arguing that.
You want to trade him...great. Now explain how that happens?
Which team takes him. Give me some... For what? What is the return?
WHO FUCKING PLAYS QB IN CHICAGO when he's traded. What do you do with the draft picks? What is your timetable for success? 2 years- 3 years? 10 years? You can't just make these bullshit pissed off statements and not expand on it. How does your plan effect the cap?

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Cutler is not the problem people. Bad coaching and bad game plans are. Bad preparations and bad time management are. I could go on and on. but everyone already knows from day one my stance on our coaching staff. Cutler is a good QB. Best we ever had. Nowhere near perfect but plenty to win with. It's time to admit we have many bigger problems then QB. I wish it was only the QB.

Noon, we've known each other for awhile, and I really am interested in your take. Now, I want to be sure I understand why you are coming at it this way, not to be a jerk, but because I think you think for yourself. I don't see how bad time management adds up to this. That way a problem two years ago, but I think they get the calls in pretty good time. Yeah mistakes here and there, but no worse than most teams. You really feel this is a systemic problem?

I can agree with you that the offense is unnecessarily pass heavy. I think our run game is as good as anyone's, and this year has proved that in spades. I can agree that Trestman has often gone away from the run prematurely or for no good reason.

Cutler is the best we've ever had, on that there's no doubt. But I think we all - me included, until now, have been using that as an excuse to forgive him for his very serious shortcomings. In watching the All-22 this year, I am just appalled at a lot of his decision-making. And he isn't 27 any more. This is who he is already. It is the type of QB he simply is. He is just not a brilliant defensive scheme dissector. He quite simply isn't. So we are stuck with a guy who has immense talent, probably the pure velocity in the league, but a B-grade brain.

So would we rather watch him lead us along through mediocrity for several years, being better than we would be with the usual shitty QB, but either better or worse than someone else? The devil you know versus the one you don't? I don't know, but as I am finding myself now more basically in the "he simply isn't going to win us a Super Bowl" camp, I'd probably take my chances elsewhere, even if they turned out worse. Hoping for 11-5 with a hot streak and then the inevitable (to me) turn out of the playoffs (assuming he even makes it there healthy) seems uninspired.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Let's put this another way. Just because the Bears always had shitty QBs doesn't mean we always will from now on. Just like we won't always have great linebackers. We can sign Bostic, but it guarantees nothing, but we can also trade Cutler, and that doesn't automatically mean we are screwed for another 40 years.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

And... It's not an argument in need of debunking- you dink... it's proposing a question. I gave some options- you said you are done with Cutler- fine. You want to do some research on 3 game stretches with less then 2 turnovers- fine. I'm sure you will find what your looking for. I'm not arguing that.
You want to trade him...great. Now explain how that happens?
Which team takes him. Give me some... For what? What is the return?
WHO FUCKING PLAYS QB IN CHICAGO when he's traded. What do you do with the draft picks? What is your timetable for success? 2 years- 3 years? 10 years? You can't just make these bullshit pissed off statements and not expand on it. How does your plan effect the cap?

Who takes him? I don't know, one of the 31 other teams? Just a guess. Who plays QB? Jeez, I don't know, how about Brandon Marshall?

Dude, teams trade in QBs as a matter of the business of the game, it is not some apocalpyse. Just look at Indianapolis, or NE this year for that matter. Or Seattle, or the dozens of other teams who somewhere along the way traded or replaced their glorious saintly QB who dared not be criticized by a fawning fan base due to their godly status they earn with those 8 figure salaries.

I am pretty sure there are ways deals could be worked out with the Jets, the Vikings (gulp), Tampa bay, Buffalo, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Tennessee, and Oakland. That's eight teams right there. See I gave you some obvious ones.

Who plays in his place? Someone else crappy until we figure out another solution through the draft or free agency. It's not rocket science. Or maybe we could play Roberto Garza there, since at least doing that would improve the interior line play.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

You can't just make these bullshit pissed off statements and not expand on it. How does your plan effect the cap?

Haha, how does it affect the cap. In two years, VERY POSITIVELY, you idiot. The one defense the remaining Cutler defenders have zero clothes on is the cap defense, now that he signed the huge contract. Eat the dead money next year, then move on. Anyone would be cheaper, and in a trade you can offload the salary that isn't buying you a Super Bowl anyway. Oh the cap the cap! Let's paralyze ourselves for years because we don't know to do about the cap! Fuck. God you are such a fucking moron Joey.

 

[beardown07]

 

[JoeyTourettes]

You are opting for more mediocrity. Dump Jay simply for the sake of getting rid of him. It doesn't get you any closer to a championship. Doesn't get you any closer to sustained success.
2 years of Journeyman QB... 2+years of "growing pains" with draft pick. At least 4 years before SB chance. Not to mention we will still be playing against Rodgers.

 

[toooverbearing]

Let me throw this question at you. I think there are actually teams that would trade for Cutler. Let's just pretend for a second that I am right. IF you could trade Cutler, would you?

We all already know that - no matter what - a guy who simply cannot drop the ADHD even now after all this time will not be able to put the three or four game run of flawless QB football needed to win the Super Bowl.

I'm done with Jay. As of now. If we could trade him, we should.

For the right price, yes. Anyone would. The trouble is, no one would agree on what the right price is.

I think you and I probably disagree that there would be a market for him. His contract is pretty hefty and I don't see anyone who would take a chance on Mike Shanahan as a head coach after his Washington experience to also take on Cutlers contract. And I cannot see any other hc who would badger his gm for Cutler.

We're stuck with him... I'm pretty sure of that. So what is the winning formula when you have a boom or bust qb like Cutler?

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

five more years of Cutler, maybe Lawrence Timmons was worried about being traded to us? Steelers linebacker pukes right before snap - SBNation.com

 

[hockey878]

if you guys don't mind an outsider opinion I'll chime in with my 2 cents.

I've had Forte on my fantasy team 3 years running. I live in Iowa. My girlfriend loves the bears. So the past few years i've seen a lot of bears game from a very objective viewpoint (no i'm not a packers fan, i hate them with a passion).

anyway to the point. Trestman and the play-calling is baffling to me. Not just this past game, but CONSISTENTLY in the past 2 years they just neglect the run game. Which just give Cutler more chances to screw up. Whats the point of having a top 3 RB if you don't ever run the ball? This has been especially problematic in the Red Zone where they have had even more reluctance to run the ball until last week.

WHEN will trestman learn that TRUSTING jay cutler is NOT a good idea. He is a massively talented QB. But you don't want him throwing the ball more than 30 times a game. Run the ball with Forte, set up the play-action passes and throw a lot slants, hitches, digs and crossing patterns to those beast WR's. IMO Cutler faces the most issues when he throws vertical down the middle of the field. Keep it on the outside.

As for last week. I don't get how you neglect Forte in the first half. 2 carries? It just doesn't make sense. It isn't the first time either. Its a repeating pattern. And then as soon as they start to feature Forte? Ball starts moving.

Lastly, growing up in Wisconsin I know many packer fans (trust me it sucks). The fan's mantra these days is "don't worry about playing D vs the Bears, eventually Cutler will just give you the game" It's sad how accurate that has prove these past two years in particular. The evidence is everywhere for fans and opponents to see, its just mind boggling to imagine the coaching staff doesn't also see it.

I think the fundamental question is this. Why are you trusting a QB who over 10 years has proven he CAN"T be trusted and will almost always make the worst mistake at the worst time, when you have one of the most consistent, reliable, productive backs in the NFL?

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

You are opting for more mediocrity. Dump Jay simply for the sake of getting rid of him. It doesn't get you any closer to a championship. Doesn't get you any closer to sustained success.
2 years of Journeyman QB... 2+years of "growing pains" with draft pick. At least 4 years before SB chance. Not to mention we will still be playing against Rodgers.

sustained success? Like...um...when exactly? Mediocrity? Mirror, what say thee?

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Cali I expect Jay to be Jay. That is who he is. It's Tdog that is killing us. Run a 50/50 O and give Jay less chances to hurt us is the play. He is good enough to be a part of the team. He never has been more then that. I guess my expectations are less then yours. Jay is doing exactly what I expected so I'm not all that disappointed. But I expected better from the coaching staff and feel let down. Tdog is a OC at best and I would not hire him for that. He is in over his head and that has been clear from day one.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

How they can make the playoffs: The quarterback who most closely resembles Cutler in terms of his performance is the Cowboys' Tony Romo. In one of the worst games of his life, in Week 1 this season against the 49ers, the Cowboys threw, threw and then threw again, and Romo was significantly worse on plays when he had more time to throw, not less. As I explained last week, Dallas has since decided to lean far less on Romo and far more on the running game, with extremely positive results.

The Bears are tailor-made to follow this example. They are currently passing on 66 percent of plays, despite having our top-graded run-blocking offense. They are so keen to involve Matt Forte in the passing game that they've had him on the field for 61 snaps more than the running back with the next-highest snap count, Dallas' DeMarco Murray, even though he's run the ball 71 fewer times than him. Forte is looking tired to me, when I watch him on tape, and the apparent result of that is he's not running the ball as effectively as normal. He's only broken nine tackles all year on running plays (Murray has 42), but 14 on passes.

The solution seems all too obvious: Cut down the passing rate to about 50 percent, spell Forte, particularly on passing plays, and rely far less on Cutler. The Bears aren't out of it just yet, and given the team's overall talent level, this shift in approach could fuel a postseason run.


In other words, run the fucking ball Trestman. And then fire Tucker. ( I borrowed this from a different board.)