Jaime McGinn

[abaskin18]

Sorry, my post was vague. I was not referring to McGinn when I wrote "bullshit artist."

 

[sjrules99]

bullshit artist or not, when you have 6 piles of poop on the bottom 2 lines, why trade away the only pile that doesnt smell & your top prospect in return for 2 more piles to stinky poo? It was a trade that didnt make sence, that was an overpayment & I think it was just done to "make a deadline deal"
If it was just McGinn for the 2 piles, then I woulda been ok with it. Same with Moore, if it was a 4th rounder for him ok, but it was a good position 2nd rounder. DWil is blind if he doesnt see a rebuilding phase is about to happen, and you dont start off rebuilding by trading away top prospects & 1st/2nd round picks unless your getting something useful out of them...

And rules, I cant say I agree or disagree with your assessment of McGinn, you obviously watch him much closer then I do, but I will say this and I think we can both agree on it, McGinn is better off out of SJ. If he does have the talent you suggest, it wouldve gotten wasted in SJ. The team cannot bring out the protential of its players. Michelek is another example, if he was still in SJ, he would not be having the season he is having. I fear that Logan "the future" Couture, will soon fall victum to that black hole in this organization.

I dont think michalek is a victim of the organization. He had some early injuries that likely limited his ceiling. he also was better in SJ than he has been outside. He is having a solid, although not amazing year in Ottawa, and has been very very inconsistent after 2 terrible years in ottawa since hte trade. Overall, he is nothing to write home about. reasonable top 6 forward, but just not the top liner he was billed to be and for 4.5M, he is not that great a value.

As for mcginn, I think he didn't HAVE to be better off leaving SJ. He surely is given the circumstances, but he was not given much of a fair shake here. handzus, mitchell, Ferriero and the like got as much ice as he did and are far worse. He is just 23 years old, and was on the rise. I am not sure that I will say that SJ cant bring out potential, because I think pavs has hit his, and cooch is in just his 2nd full year and is likely to score 30. Clowe, too, wasnt supposed to be a top 6 forward, but has developed nicely. The sharks can develop a player well, but with mcginn, dougie just wasnt patient enough and tmac didnt trust him enough this year to give him much quality ice. We'll see what happens...

I think it would be alot less painful if moore, galiardi and winnik werent so useless. if they had a couple goals between them and actually helped the sharks win ONE single game, then the loss of mcginn wouldnt hurt quite as much. All three have been poop (as was mentioned before) and that has made life tough and the trade a nasty pill to swallow. perhaps 4 to 6 games is not long enough to judge them, but if they lose another 4 or 6 more, it may become enough since htey would be outside looking in. When the sharks traded for Moore, they were 31-17-7 and phoenix was 28-21-9 (4 points back and with 3 more games played), a very comfy lead for SJ. Since the deal,the sharks are 2-8 (with both wins coming when moore was out of the lineup). Per chance, only a coincidence? Maybe. But seeing as how he has played for losing teams every year and has yet to spark anything in SJ, maybe not?

 

[abaskin18]

I dont think michalek is a victim of the organization. He had some early injuries that likely limited his ceiling. he also was better in SJ than he has been outside. He is having a solid, although not amazing year in Ottawa, and has been very very inconsistent after 2 terrible years in ottawa since hte trade. Overall, he is nothing to write home about. reasonable top 6 forward, but just not the top liner he was billed to be and for 4.5M, he is not that great a value.

As for mcginn, I think he didn't HAVE to be better off leaving SJ. He surely is given the circumstances, but he was not given much of a fair shake here. handzus, mitchell, Ferriero and the like got as much ice as he did and are far worse. He is just 23 years old, and was on the rise. I am not sure that I will say that SJ cant bring out potential, because I think pavs has hit his, and cooch is in just his 2nd full year and is likely to score 30. Clowe, too, wasnt supposed to be a top 6 forward, but has developed nicely. The sharks can develop a player well, but with mcginn, dougie just wasnt patient enough and tmac didnt trust him enough this year to give him much quality ice. We'll see what happens...

I think it would be alot less painful if moore, galiardi and winnik werent so useless. if they had a couple goals between them and actually helped the sharks win ONE single game, then the loss of mcginn wouldnt hurt quite as much. All three have been poop (as was mentioned before) and that has made life tough and the trade a nasty pill to swallow. perhaps 4 to 6 games is not long enough to judge them, but if they lose another 4 or 6 more, it may become enough since htey would be outside looking in. When the sharks traded for Moore, they were 31-17-7 and phoenix was 28-21-9 (4 points back and with 3 more games played), a very comfy lead for SJ. Since the deal,the sharks are 2-8 (with both wins coming when moore was out of the lineup). Per chance, only a coincidence? Maybe. But seeing as how he has played for losing teams every year and has yet to spark anything in SJ, maybe not?

He's played in 37 playoff games in the last two years and last year was a part of 103 point team that had the same regular season record as those losers in Boston.

I'm not saying he's going to be the straw that stirs the drink or even that he's all that valuable beyond his defense and faceoffs but, believe it or not, it is possible to state your opinion without this type of misinformation.

 

[caliraftdude]

why trade away the only pile that doesn't smell & your top prospect in return ... I think it was just done to "make a deadline deal"

I couldn't agree more. I don't think that Mcginn makes or breaks this team but he sure as hell looked like a kid that put some effort on the ice and his positives outweighed his negatives most of the time.

I will say this and I think we can both agree on it, McGinn is better off out of SJ.

Hard to say - The Sharks are not the Raiders (well - not yet at least..) but I would say in the short term he will shine more on a team of young, fast hard workers than this ailing squad on its deathbed looking to the 3rd/4th line to get them to a Stanley Cup... that's for sure..

I am willing to give these new guys some rope, but the reality is neither of them are going to sink or suddenly manifest greatness out of this team.

 

[Likewall32]

I know the Sharks don't have a 3rd and I think they don't have a 4th either in this years draft. They did have two 2nd rounders though, their own and a comp pick for not signing Patrick White both of which will be late 2nds, that was probably a big reason for giving up a 2nd for him.

EDIT: That may have been the Wild's 2nd and not their own which will end up being top half of the 2nd round.

It was the wilds 2nd rd pick they traded fro moore

 

[Cmon_WTF]

It was the wilds 2nd rd pick they traded fro moore

Yeah, the point still stands that they had two 2nds and no 3rd or 4th. The comp 2nd rounder isn't available to them until draft day.

It still cracks me up all this fuss over bottom six players. It hasn't been the bottom six that have been the Sharks problem over this stretch it's been the top six.

 

[sjrules99]

He's played in 37 playoff games in the last two years and last year was a part of 103 point team that had the same regular season record as those losers in Boston.

I'm not saying he's going to be the straw that stirs the drink or even that he's all that valuable beyond his defense and faceoffs but, believe it or not, it is possible to state your opinion without this type of misinformation.

He's been traded from losers to contenders every year but one (last year) for 6 straight years. That's a sign that every team he plays for seems to suck. While he has made it to the conference finals the last two years, one can wonder whether that was a function of the team around him or moore himself. Given that he 16 points and -3 in 41 career PO games, there must be a whole lot other guys on the team making the difference. In MTL, it was halak going off his rocker. MTL didnt play that well all PO's, but halak was unreal. In Tampa last year, moore was respectable (and I remember thinking he wasnt bad), so I gotta give him credit for that little run. however, against boston in the conference finals, he was a -7 and sucked. So, I dunno, not so impressive to me...

 

[abaskin18]

It still cracks me up all this fuss over bottom six players. It hasn't been the bottom six that have been the Sharks problem over this stretch it's been the top six.

A lot of fans on and off the board have already decided what the Sharks will get from the top six. I guess they need to talk about something when it comes to the forward group.

Me? I just play handball, yo.

 

[abaskin18]

He's been traded from losers to contenders every year but one (last year) for 6 straight years. That's a sign that every team he plays for seems to suck. While he has made it to the conference finals the last two years, one can wonder whether that was a function of the team around him or moore himself. Given that he 16 points and -3 in 41 career PO games, there must be a whole lot other guys on the team making the difference. In MTL, it was halak going off his rocker. MTL didnt play that well all PO's, but halak was unreal. In Tampa last year, moore was respectable (and I remember thinking he wasnt bad), so I gotta give him credit for that little run. however, against boston in the conference finals, he was a -7 and sucked. So, I dunno, not so impressive to me...

You are speculative about a team's success and his contributions to it but you are comfortable making the correlation between San Jose's continued slump, a slump that started well before he got there, and his arrival in your last post. Sounds flimsy to me.

It's true that he wasn't a big part of Montreal's 88 point regular season, he was only there for the stretch run and playoffs. And Halak was great, but Montreal played their butts off in that run, playing well over their heads, imo. You can't discount that just because the goalie was great, and he was truly great. In the "except last year" you mentioned, Moore played all 77 of his games for Tampa, a winning team, before ultimately losing to the only team who won their last playoff game after contributing 11pts in 18 games. I wouldn't expect that again. That's really impressive for a 3rd liner, wouldn't you agree? Your claim that he's played for losing teams every year is simply untrue.

As for the underlined, it's not conclusive imo, but I can understand someone reaching that conclusion. It's as understandable to me as someone concluding that contending teams thought enough of him to acquire him for a playoff run.

 

[Likewall32]

Yeah, the point still stands that they had two 2nds and no 3rd or 4th. The comp 2nd rounder isn't available to them until draft day.

It still cracks me up all this fuss over bottom six players. It hasn't been the bottom six that have been the Sharks problem over this stretch it's been the top six.

Its been the whole terrible team... remember tho, this team would be doing worse with heatley & seto tho lol, yea I bet haha

 

[sjrules99]

no doubt the top 6 have also been problematic, but when your top players are only scoring less than usual, the depth needs to step up. But its just not there... at all.

 

[Cbrower91]

Well Matt Duschene is out for an extended period of time for the AV's time to see if this theory of Ginner getting a "chance" is anywhere near legit lol

 

[filosofy29]

Well Matt Duschene is out for an extended period of time for the AV's time to see if this theory of Ginner getting a "chance" is anywhere near legit lol

Sorry to hear for Duchesne. He's a really, really good young player. Hopefully he has a speedy recovery. That said, it is good for the Sharks as the Avs are one of the teams they're jockeying with for a playoff spot.

 

[rares]

The Avs will prolly still finish ahead of the Sharks... :p

 

[Destroydacre]

McGinn's on the board tonight for the Avs a minute into the game.

 

[li0lsh]

lol @ filo who questioned my hockey watching

 

[SJVP408]

Jeezus Christ Doug just traded away the second coming of Maurice Richard.

That's 4 goals in 5 games and he's not done with the 5th game.

The Sharks have scored 4 goals in their last 4 games.

 

[filosofy29]

lol @ filo who questioned my hockey watching

Do you remember why? Probably not.

 

[Cbrower91]

Jeezus Christ Doug just traded away the second coming of Maurice Richard.

That's 4 goals in 5 games and he's not done with the 5th game.

The Sharks have scored 4 goals in their last 4 games.

lol no its brett hull i called it first so

 

[li0lsh]

Do you remember why? Probably not.

i assumed it was realizing Ginn's potential and it was a horizontal, if not downward trade