Jaime McGinn

[sjrules99]

I think he's pissed off and motivated as all hell right now. If he stays like that, he's going to be a hell of a player. If he goes back to the McGinn in San Jose where sometimes he gave a damn and a lot of the time he didn't, then he'll probably be around a 40pt. player the rest of his career.

Good for him though.

Its not a matter of motivation, its a matter of opportunity and coaching. In SJ, he was stuck on a line with shlubs like mitchell and handzus playing minimal minutes and not getting much PP time.

In SJ, mcginn playing over 15 mins in a game a total of 9 times and never got more than 16:30. In fact, he never got more than 16:45 in a game in his entire career! He never got any kind of real ice with legitimate players and never was considered a key part of the team. Hence the total fuck up of throwing him away for next to nothing. Now in Colorado, he is playing with talented players like paul stastny, is getting quality PP time, is averaging over 15 mins/game and rising, including games with over 18 mins (i.e. 1st line ice time). It's not a motivation thing, it's a horrrrrible failure of doug wilson and Todd Mclellan to recognize the talent staring them in the face. He has a great shot, above average speed, and plays physical. He's a complete player and that's why I immediately said he is likely to be a top 6 forwards. Admittedly, I didnt expect it this quickly, but like I said, I wouldnt be surprised to see him score 20-30 every year, right away before he played a single game in Colorado. Could turn out to be the worst trade in Sharks history...

 

[filosofy29]

Its not a matter of motivation, its a matter of opportunity and coaching. In SJ, he was stuck on a line with shlubs like mitchell and handzus playing minimal minutes and not getting much PP time.

In SJ, mcginn playing over 15 mins in a game a total of 9 times and never got more than 16:30. In fact, he never got more than 16:45 in a game in his entire career! He never got any kind of real ice with legitimate players and never was considered a key part of the team. Hence the total fuck up of throwing him away for next to nothing. Now in Colorado, he is playing with talented players like paul stastny, is getting quality PP time, is averaging over 15 mins/game and rising, including games with over 18 mins (i.e. 1st line ice time). It's not a motivation thing, it's a horrrrrible failure of doug wilson and Todd Mclellan to recognize the talent staring them in the face. He has a great shot, above average speed, and plays physical. He's a complete player and that's why I immediately said he is likely to be a top 6 forwards. Admittedly, I didnt expect it this quickly, but like I said, I wouldnt be surprised to see him score 20-30 every year, right away before he played a single game in Colorado. Could turn out to be the worst trade in Sharks history...

Well, that settles it. My opinion is 100% wrong.

 

[abaskin18]

Well, that settles it. My opinion is 100% wrong.

As completely wrong as McGinn's completeness as a player.

 

[sjrules99]

haha, you guys can maintain that he is incomplete, lazy, whatever you want to call it. However, there is a reason dougie was smart in '06 to trade up to get him in the draft. The skill was there and now its in full display. Good for Ginner, and I sure dougie wishes he could have a do-over on this one.

BTW, I had this same argument with pavs as a good player who wasnt getting the opportunity. At what point will you guys admit that Mcginn is a top 6 forward? If he scores 30 next year, is it luck? Do you guys think this sudden turnaround is a coincidence and Mcginn is still a shlubby 3rd liner? He may not be the superstar he is being right now, and I would be shocked to see him go for 40 or 50, but it's no fluke.

 

[sjrules99]

Also, is Dominic Moore a complete player? clearly he is vastly superior as you all believe? It's ridiculous that anyone actually likes this guy.

Winnik too is a 4th liner. Galiardi is the only one of the three with any actual skill and may be OK soon, but sadly, Tmac is pulling a ginner with him too and sticking him with losers and no quality ice time, so its no surprise to me that he is struggling. The coaching is killing the team and Dougie is lockstep in line with Todd. So weird and so blind.

 

[SJVP408]

haha, you guys can maintain that he is incomplete, lazy, whatever you want to call it. However, there is a reason dougie was smart in '06 to trade up to get him in the draft. The skill was there and now its in full display. Good for Ginner, and I sure dougie wishes he could have a do-over on this one.

BTW, I had this same argument with pavs as a good player who wasnt getting the opportunity. At what point will you guys admit that Mcginn is a top 6 forward? If he scores 30 next year, is it luck? Do you guys think this sudden turnaround is a coincidence and Mcginn is still a shlubby 3rd liner? He may not be the superstar he is being right now, and I would be shocked to see him go for 40 or 50, but it's no fluke.

McGinn is in a great situation in COL where he can grow as a player. There is little pressure on the team right now so any mistakes he makes can be easily forgiven. That was not the case here in SJ where mistakes cost young players ice time. You saw that with Seto and you see it with Demers.

Destroyadaycare (I'm jk with your name) brought up a good point about McGinn perhaps not being with proper line mates in SJ. As a winger for Thornton you gotta be quick to jump into open ice to receive passes. I think the best way to utilize McGinn is a straightforward attack style, not grind it out protect the puck style. I haven't caught any Avs games but I'd love to hear what Avs fans have to say about how he's been finding the success he's having.

I don't think McGinn needs to score 30 to show that he belongs in a top 6 role for a contender. His shot, skating, and physicality are all good. His defense, ability to utilize his line mates to continue an offensive possession, and consistency are what was lacking as a Shark.

 

[SJVP408]

McGinn scores with 1 second left tonight vs BUF to send the game to OT by crashing the net. The fact he's on the ice with the team trailing by 1 shows huge confidence in McGinn. 7 goals in 8 games. Wow

 

[23sharks]

Also, is Dominic Moore a complete player? clearly he is vastly superior as you all believe? It's ridiculous that anyone actually likes this guy.

Winnik too is a 4th liner. Galiardi is the only one of the three with any actual skill and may be OK soon, but sadly, Tmac is pulling a ginner with him too and sticking him with losers and no quality ice time, so its no surprise to me that he is struggling. The coaching is killing the team and Dougie is lockstep in line with Todd. So weird and so blind.

The problem is the Sharks have way too many guys that are 4th liners, or shouldn't even be in the league. You aren't going to win with a roster full of guys like Moore-Winnik-Mitchell-Galiardi-Handzus-Dejardins-etc.
The new guys haven't given them much of anything.
I'm not going to say that McGinn is an all star, but I thought he would have a solid year, maybe get 15+ goals, and be a solid 3rd liner. He is also one of the few guys on the team that you could count on to play physical. Not a good move letting him go.

 

[Cbrower91]

fucking mcginn lol ok this is like the second coming of Rob Gadreau

 

[abaskin18]

haha, you guys can maintain that he is incomplete, lazy, whatever you want to call it. However, there is a reason dougie was smart in '06 to trade up to get him in the draft. The skill was there and now its in full display. Good for Ginner, and I sure dougie wishes he could have a do-over on this one.

BTW, I had this same argument with pavs as a good player who wasnt getting the opportunity. At what point will you guys admit that Mcginn is a top 6 forward? If he scores 30 next year, is it luck? Do you guys think this sudden turnaround is a coincidence and Mcginn is still a shlubby 3rd liner? He may not be the superstar he is being right now, and I would be shocked to see him go for 40 or 50, but it's no fluke.

If McGinn scores even reasonably ok after his tear cools and in a few years his defensive game rounds out the way Pavs' has making him arguably equally (or even more) valuable defensively as offensively, I'll be first in line to say he's a complete player. Pavelski has had the same amount of opportunity since 08-09 and his production (at least in your eyes) is about the same every year since, and you sure weren't talking about his D game and faceoffs rounding out so well. I remember price to point ratio and "he's won at every level." So I'm not sure all your debates about Pavelski are so relevant here.

Doug was smart enough to trade up which is evidence to McGinn's talent? This is what I'm talking about when I say you're spouting BS. You're taking a metric, statistical or otherwise (like here), and claiming it means more than it really does. You're passing opinions off as facts, calling it evidence and at times, even worse, proof. You're citing DW's intelligence and performance in the first few rounds of the draft as evidence to McGinn's talent. Think about how that sounds for a moment, then think about your recent post history RE: DW, now think about it again. It's just crappy, man. Cable political news crappy. You're using the notion that you were "right" about Pavelski as evidence that you are "right" about McGinn for pete's sake. Your opinions can be very valuable to the discussion here, imo, but the manner in which you present them is poisonous, also jmo.

I have never, ever, been down on McGinn. I was calling people out for calling him McWaste in the pre-season because it was based on nothing, and I thought his speed and physicality would help the club on the bottom lines. I certainly would have been surprised for him to turn into a top six scorer (or even a top scorer on the third line) in the next few years given the skaters on depth chart ahead of him and his season last year, though...guilty as charged. I considered him expendable at the time of the trade and still think it's ok move if DW thought some defensive minded guys contributing to the team this year was more valuable than McGinn in two years(And Sgarbossa, who might have been the top scoring prospect but was not, to my understanding, the top prospect in the system as some claim). His strengths certainly don't line up with what they're trying to do with the bottom two lines right now, so DW found a trade partner.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. You won't have to read another post of mine in response to yours again. Cheers.

 

[filosofy29]

Also, is Dominic Moore a complete player? clearly he is vastly superior as you all believe? It's ridiculous that anyone actually likes this guy.

Winnik too is a 4th liner. Galiardi is the only one of the three with any actual skill and may be OK soon, but sadly, Tmac is pulling a ginner with him too and sticking him with losers and no quality ice time, so its no surprise to me that he is struggling. The coaching is killing the team and Dougie is lockstep in line with Todd. So weird and so blind.

lol, where to begin. When have I ever said Dominic Moore is a "complete player"??? When have I ever even said he was good? I don't think I was even all that excited when we got him in a trade. I think I was pretty "meh" about him. You just say he's useless and I say he's made a couple of good defensive plays (especially in the Edmonton game). Since when does saying that somebody is pretty good in their own end = complete player? I hope you don't teach reading comprehension Rules. (I kid, I kid)

Did you even read what I wrote about McGinn? I said if he keeps up this motivation that he's going to be a heck of a player.....how does that mean he's a fluke? Do you mean to tell me that in 8 or so games he's just had this outstanding coaching that he's never received before? If Sacco is that good, why did Galiardi, Yip, Jones, etc. have up and down careers so far? I've always agreed he's (McGinn) got the raw skills (i.e. - hard shot, good speed), he's just never put it all together here. That said, he also never got a prolonged fair shot. I saw him on many occasions in his Sharks career look disinterested. He'd be super physical on one shift and then nothing the rest of the game. I've also seen him have multi-goal games where he's been a beast. If that ain't inconsistent I don't know what is. He's still not a complete player though, he still has defensive lapses. If he scores 30 goals though next year he can still be a very useful player.....even one I'd love to have on the Sharks. I like McGinn and I'll say the same thing I said in the trade thread.....good luck to him. I liked Seto too, good luck to him as well.

In the Trade thread, I called Winnik a 3.5 Line player. I think he's lived up to that billing. I haven't been impressed nor disappointed with his play.....he's kind of just been ok. The one I look dumb on is Galiardi. I really think he's got a chance to be a 2.5 Line guy. I also don't think he's gotten a very fair shake ala McGinn to shine.

 

[MrChangoT97]

McGinn is just SUPER HOT right now.

thanks Doug!

 

[rares]

Fantastic news for him but I still can't be bothered to care.

This shitty Sharks team isn't one McGinn away from winning the Stanley Cup.

Give me a fucking break.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

In the Trade thread, I called Winnik a 3.5 Line player. I think he's lived up to that billing. I haven't been impressed nor disappointed with his play.....he's kind of just been ok. The one I look dumb on is Galiardi. I really think he's got a chance to be a 2.5 Line guy. I also don't think he's gotten a very fair shake ala McGinn to shine.

That's a good discription of Winnik. The Winnik - Moore - Mitchell line was increadibly good at preforming the role they were asked to play. Their possession and offensive zone time numbers ranked best in the league. They allowed the coaching staff to try to create mismatches with the Thornton line by getting them on the ice more against other teams 3rd and 4th lines instead of having to match them up full time against the other teams top line. Unfortunately Thornton and his linemates failed miserably at capitalizing off those mismatches.

Winnik has no business being on the 2nd line. He just dosen't mesh well with those types of players.

 

[sjrules99]

That's a good discription of Winnik. The Winnik - Moore - Mitchell line was increadibly good at preforming the role they were asked to play. Their possession and offensive zone time numbers ranked best in the league. They allowed the coaching staff to try to create mismatches with the Thornton line by getting them on the ice more against other teams 3rd and 4th lines instead of having to match them up full time against the other teams top line. Unfortunately Thornton and his linemates failed miserably at capitalizing off those mismatches.

Winnik has no business being on the 2nd line. He just dosen't mesh well with those types of players.

This is the kind of false logic that I think really sends GM's down the wrong path. yes, moore-mitchell-winnik has good speed, good FO%, good O-zone time and the like. All that is definitely true. They are pests, major annoying pests, who can drive other teams wild. But the big difference between them and say, steve ott or raffie torres is that those guys are pests who get under the skin of opponents but can also SCORE. Being a pest is great, but if you never actually produce anything, then all the pressure is 100% on 5 guys to score the whole team's goals when other teams have 8 or 9 forwards who can score. Blaming Jumbo's line for "only" scoring 2 goals is ridiculous no matter the matchup or starting in the O-zone. 5 guys cannot be expected to score 2.5 goals per game on a regular basis (as the D and bottom six pitch in .5). That would put them at an average of 41 goals each (205 goals for 5 guys). You know you're lucky when jumbo scores 20 and clowe 25. That means pavs cooch and patty need to net 50 each. Umm... ridiculous. So if that's not going to happen, then where are the goals going to come from?

The idea that the sharks are going to win 2-1 games a lot of just fanstasy. nemo isnt that great, and neither is the D, so that's not gunna happen regularly.

now, maybe you cant blame moore, as the expectations of him were too high. If he is expected to be a 4th line grinder, then he doing a reasonable job. However, if he is expected to add anything in terms of actual offensive production, then it's a disaster. Really, the blame lands on tmac for misuse of his assets and dougie for buying into this kind of "they work hard so they are good" bullshit. Wingels, by the way, falls in the exact same camp. These guys work hard but produce nothing leaving the sharks' only chance of winning being basically shutting out the opponent.

 

[sjrules99]

p.s.: Although I don't agree agree with mcginn being only semi-motivated in SJ, as I think it was more just a lack of opportunity, even still, I would rather have a semimotivated mcginn who can provide that key offensive depth, than a wingels or winnik or work real hard and try their best eery shift, but produce zilcho.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

This is the kind of false logic that I think really sends GM's down the wrong path. yes, moore-mitchell-winnik has good speed, good FO%, good O-zone time and the like. All that is definitely true. They are pests, major annoying pests, who can drive other teams wild. But the big difference between them and say, steve ott or raffie torres is that those guys are pests who get under the skin of opponents but can also SCORE. Being a pest is great, but if you never actually produce anything, then all the pressure is 100% on 5 guys to score the whole team's goals when other teams have 8 or 9 forwards who can score. Blaming Jumbo's line for "only" scoring 2 goals is ridiculous no matter the matchup or starting in the O-zone. 5 guys cannot be expected to score 2.5 goals per game on a regular basis (as the D and bottom six pitch in .5). That would put them at an average of 41 goals each (205 goals for 5 guys). You know you're lucky when jumbo scores 20 and clowe 25. That means pavs cooch and patty need to net 50 each. Umm... ridiculous. So if that's not going to happen, then where are the goals going to come from?

The idea that the sharks are going to win 2-1 games a lot of just fanstasy. nemo isnt that great, and neither is the D, so that's not gunna happen regularly.

now, maybe you cant blame moore, as the expectations of him were too high. If he is expected to be a 4th line grinder, then he doing a reasonable job. However, if he is expected to add anything in terms of actual offensive production, then it's a disaster. Really, the blame lands on tmac for misuse of his assets and dougie for buying into this kind of "they work hard so they are good" bullshit. Wingels, by the way, falls in the exact same camp. These guys work hard but produce nothing leaving the sharks' only chance of winning being basically shutting out the opponent.

I don't think it's as much Wilson as it is the coaching staff. Before any of the of the new players arived the Sharks were having a tough time scoring consistantly. They'd go two or three games scoring five or more then a another stretch of six or seven or more games where they wouldn't score more than two goals. If creating those mismatches could get both Thornton and Couture's lines some confidence and scoring consistantly then the coaches could move back to a 3rd line who's primary responsibility is to provide scoring depth. These last two games have been the first time since Winnik, Moore, and Galiardi have been brought in that the 3rd line's primary goal has been to provide scoring depth. Prior to that scoring ranked 4th or 5th on their list of responsibilities.

 

[sjrules99]

I don't think it's as much Wilson as it is the coaching staff. Before any of the of the new players arived the Sharks were having a tough time scoring consistantly. They'd go two or three games scoring five or more then a another stretch of six or seven or more games where they wouldn't score more than two goals. If creating those mismatches could get both Thornton and Couture's lines some confidence and scoring consistantly then the coaches could move back to a 3rd line who's primary responsibility is to provide scoring depth. These last two games have been the first time since Winnik, Moore, and Galiardi have been brought in that the 3rd line's primary goal has been to provide scoring depth. Prior to that scoring ranked 4th or 5th on their list of responsibilities.

Every team goes through small ups and downs. Prior to the trade for moore (and even excluding the tampa game) the sharks had scored in the previous games: 5, 0, 5, 3, 3, 5, 6. Thats a total of 27 goals in 4 games or just a hair under 4 goals per game. Granted the 6 games before that were: 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 2, 2 for 14 goals in 8 games (1.75 GFA). In other words, they were abit up and down, but in that case dougie should target MORE scoring not less by adding moore with all of 4 goals and winnik and galiardi who barely combined for Mcginn's total in combined double the ice time.

As such, dougie has traded down, not up. Predictably, the production since the tampa game has been unbelievably bad at 1.8 GFA over those 14 games. They had more goals in the previous 7 games, excluding the 5 in Tampa, than they have in the 14 games since.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Doug shipped out 12 goals and 24 pts and brought in 17 goals and 51 points. Seems like pretty ballanced exchange in scoring to me. Perhaps you should focus on how they are being used by the coaching staff instead of comparing each individually to McGinn.