It's getting old

[LifeLong9ersFan]

Is Aaron Rodgers irrelevant? Steve Young?

It's not that they "require" sitting, its the situation and the complexity of the position. I'm in the camp that sitting two years can a good thing. Kap is coming out of the proverbial "gimmick" offense from a very weak conference, that's not a sure signal he will fail, but it should be cause for some moderation on his chances of success and how long it will take.

IF THE ENTIRE TEAM PLAYED BETTER then we would not have needed those heroics...its team sport right? Alex was not the sole reason we could not put it in the redzone, OL, RBs, WRs, QB, play calling etc. How much of this should Crabtree shoulder for his dropped passes? His tipped passes into the other teams hands? He ranks #10 for dropped passes, but I guess they don't give bonus points for tipping the ball to the other team.

The moment I posted that I knew someone would throw out Rodgers but I like the Steve Young twist. You are talking apples and oranges here in both cases. Rodgers didn't require 2-3 years on the bench, he was sitting behind Favre and Young would have done fine years earlier but he was behind Montana. We don't have a HoF QB in the lineup to have our backup on the pine for the next few years. Both of those guys would have been great no matter the length of time they sat but they happened to have great players in front of them.

As for a team game you're right but to counter, how many times to Alex sail a ball over a WR's head or make a terrible throw on 3rd down that would have kept a drive alive. You remember crabs standing wide open in the end zone last year and Alex missing 10 yards over him? How about the deep throws over the middle to anyone not named Vernon Davis that landed 7-10 yards past the WR that had a step on his man (Kyle Williams play comes to mind and one to Ginn). Yes, it is a team game but the QB has a disproportional percentage of responsibility on him because he touches the ball every down for the offense.

 

[Southern9er]

I seem to remember reading that neither of our OTs had holding penalties all year.

And quit saying Smith was good when he clearly wasn't.

And I seem to remember an O-line that was overall ranked #26... since we are talking stats...one that was #8 for sacks allowed

Top 10 2011 NFL Teams With The Most Sacks Allowed on Pikimal

What's interesting is the only two teams with winning records in that list are SF and PITT.

Smith played decent. His limiting of turnovers was clearly good. His lack of TDs was not good. His late game heroics was good. He was good with Davis, bad with Crabtree.

 

[wartyOne]

And to say that Alex will not throw more than 17 TDs next season...in 16 games is just as foolish.

I don't think it would be hard for Kap to equal or better Smiths TD count next season...but I think it would be even easier for him to triple the number of turnovers. I think Kap has a bright future with the 49ers, but not this season. We'll see what happens in camp, if Kap wins the position GREAT...then we have the better of the two starting.

You and everyone else arguing this think that Smith will not improve...in fact get worse because, "...he will throw more INTs..." You keep quoting 17 TDs in almost Cazic like fashion and almost directly suggest that Smith will not do any better.

Hypothetically:
If Smith throws 24 TDs and 10 turnovers, but Kap throws 25 TDs and has 18 turnovers...who do you want?

I actually don't think Smith will do much better than what he posted this year (2011-12), even with the upgraded WR's. I think we saw this year what Smith is capable of. I don't think he's going to improve by 1000 yards and 10 TD's (even if the INT's go up 10 as well), and I think we need a QB capable of producing in that fashion in order to sustain years of playoff success.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he blossoms late the way Eli did. But I'm not counting on it, and with the contract the 9ers are offering, it doesn't seem like they are either.

 

[Southern9er]

The moment I posted that I knew someone would throw out Rodgers but I like the Steve Young twist. You are talking apples and oranges here in both cases. Rodgers didn't require 2-3 years on the bench, he was sitting behind Favre and Young would have done fine years earlier but he was behind Montana. We don't have a HoF QB in the lineup to have our backup on the pine for the next few years. Both of those guys would have been great no matter the length of time they sat but they happened to have great players in front of them.

As for a team game you're right but to counter, how many times to Alex sail a ball over a WR's head or make a terrible throw on 3rd down that would have kept a drive alive. You remember crabs standing wide open in the end zone last year and Alex missing 10 yards over him? How about the deep throws over the middle to anyone not named Vernon Davis that landed 7-10 yards past the WR that had a step on his man (Kyle Williams play comes to mind and one to Ginn). Yes, it is a team game but the QB has a disproportional percentage of responsibility on him because he touches the ball every down for the offense.

I addressed this...re-read my post, first and second sentences...

I also remember Crabs dropping two passes in a row and Crabs tipping at least two passes to the other team. How much confidence would you have in that guy who's in the top 10...for dropped passes? There is a reason Davis and Smith did so well together and not so much with the others.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

I never said that I think CK will fail... I just don't know if he is ready right now. Like I said in another thread, he can easily match and surpass Smiths TD and yardage totals of last season, but is he gonna be able to keep the mistakes down like Smith did?? If our turnover margin wasn't as great as it was, we aren't 13-3 (obviously) and we certainly don't beat the Saints.

A lot of pressure on a kid who has never started a game in the NFL to take over a team that was so close to a Superbowl, with a fanbase with high expectations that has been waiting for a franchise QB for over a decade. But who knows... QBs are coming in and making an impact right away these days.

Im agree with everything here. I will not mind one bit if smith come back at the contract offered but wont lose a minute of sleep if he think he deserves more money then that. I will be fine going with Kap, Tolzien, or whoever else they bring in. Our front office puts prices on players and if they dont like it then GTFO.

 

[wartyOne]

I addressed this...re-read my post, first and second sentences...

I also remember Crabs dropping two passes in a row and Crabs tipping at least two passes to the other team. How much confidence would you have in that guy who's in the top 10...for dropped passes? There is a reason Davis and Smith did so well together and not so much with the others.

That's not really up to Smith. He can't just ignore a WR because of a few dropped passes (don't know the number he dropped, but he did catch 72). If Crabtree is the problem, then Smith should keep throwing at him until the coaching staff yanks Crabtree.

I'm certainly not defending Crabtree, and I'm actually quite outspoken with my dislike of him as a player. That said, if we're counting all of his drops, we should also count all of Smith's missed passes (where the incompletion is because Smith didn't hit the target).

 

[Jikkle]

For the record I'm all for Kapernick starting but to be fair to Smith and to play devils advocate I suppose I do think Smith will do better this season than he did last.

I don't think it's accurate to really dump all our passing offensive woes on to him and by no means am I trying to suggest to excuse him from them either.

Every QB misses big plays, makes mistakes, and throws bad passes but Smith did it too many times for my tastes and he needed to hit on far more of them than he did.

On the flip side though he did have quite a few passes that I thought would've been tough catches but catchable that our receivers failed to make a play on. I'm sure if you youtubed 2011 amazing 49er catches it would be a pretty short video if you find one at all.

Also we asked him to be conservative, manage the game, make easy throws if you need to, etc. Now that might be an indictment of what the coaches thought of his skills but I can't judge him for not being Drew Brees when we never asked him to be in the first place.

The sacks I would put the blame on a little bit of both sides. Quite a few times pressure came up the middle and quite a few times Smith needed to just make a throw even if it was a bit risky.

Again I think we're better off going with CK but I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on Smith nor do I think it's fair to excuse him of all the blame.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

I don't think anyone expects him to come in and have less turnovers then Smith did last year. That being said I don't think anyone expects him to come in and ONLY put up the numbers that Smith did either.It's easier to swallow the turnovers if he can throw for more yards and get us more touchdowns.

I agree... but what I am saying is that if we don't have the small amounts of turnovers, who knows what we do last season.

Bengals +2 and we won 13-8
Eagles +2 we win 24-23
Redskins +2 win 19-11
Giants +1 win 27-20
Seahawks +1 win 19-17
Rams +2 win 34-27
Saints +4 win win 36-32

I mean, a couple of those are just +1, but those are only 1 turnover or 0 from our team. We lose the turnover battle and we probably lose most of those games. I guess you can say that about any team and any game...

 

[LifeLong9ersFan]

I addressed this...re-read my post, first and second sentences...

I also remember Crabs dropping two passes in a row and Crabs tipping at least two passes to the other team. How much confidence would you have in that guy who's in the top 10...for dropped passes? There is a reason Davis and Smith did so well together and not so much with the others.

I know you said they don't require it but then clarify. Would those two players have been as good if they only sat for one year (which I believe just about all QB's should) rather than 2-3?

And please tell me that you are not arguing that Davis doesn't drop balls

 

[LifeLong9ersFan]

I agree... but what I am saying is that if we don't have the small amounts of turnovers, who knows what we do last season.

Bengals +2 and we won 13-8
Eagles +2 we win 24-23
Redskins +2 win 19-11
Giants +1 win 27-20
Seahawks +1 win 19-17
Rams +2 win 34-27
Saints +4 win win 36-32

I mean, a couple of those are just +1, but those are only 1 turnover or 0 from our team. We lose the turnover battle and we probably lose most of those games. I guess you can say that about any team and any game...

That's true but like I said earlier, if we get just 2 more 3rd down conversions or an extra TD because of better QB play could we afford to drop that by 1 on every game?

 

[FourBeeDen]

I've conceited time and time again that CK will throw more INTs that Alex. I also think that 2012 Alex will throw more INTs than 2011 Alex.

Interesting choice of words....

 

[tallglassofwater007]

That's true but like I said earlier, if we get just 2 more 3rd down conversions or an extra TD because of better QB play could we afford to drop that by 1 on every game?

No, it's true. But in order to do that the coaches have to step on the gas a bit too. I hope they are willing to do that this year, regardless of the QB. Take some chances down near the red zone. Give Akers leg a rest.

 

[jayviabay]

For the record I'm all for Kapernick starting but to be fair to Smith and to play devils advocate I suppose I do think Smith will do better this season than he did last.

I don't think it's accurate to really dump all our passing offensive woes on to him and by no means am I trying to suggest to excuse him from them either.

Every QB misses big plays, makes mistakes, and throws bad passes but Smith did it too many times for my tastes and he needed to hit on far more of them than he did.

On the flip side though he did have quite a few passes that I thought would've been tough catches but catchable that our receivers failed to make a play on. I'm sure if you youtubed 2011 amazing 49er catches it would be a pretty short video if you find one at all.

Also we asked him to be conservative, manage the game, make easy throws if you need to, etc. Now that might be an indictment of what the coaches thought of his skills but I can't judge him for not being Drew Brees when we never asked him to be in the first place.

The sacks I would put the blame on a little bit of both sides. Quite a few times pressure came up the middle and quite a few times Smith needed to just make a throw even if it was a bit risky.

Again I think we're better off going with CK but I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on Smith nor do I think it's fair to excuse him of all the blame.

Interesting how this bit of information always seems to be in most Alex discussions. I have always heard this from the MEDIA. Can someone please post a link of an interview where JIM HARBAUGH or GREG ROMAN states that is what they asked and expected from Smith?

Thanks in Advance...

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I know the date on the page says its 2012, but I would swear by the tone of the conversation that its still 2007 and Smith is throwing passes 10 yards over guys' heads......rather than coming off a very efficient year. Sheesh.

 

[Jikkle]

Interesting how this bit of information always seems to be in most Alex discussions. I have always heard this from the MEDIA. Can someone please post a link of an interview where JIM HARBAUGH or GREG ROMAN states that is what they asked and expected from Smith?

Thanks in Advance...

You just have to look at our play calling. How many times did we run the ball, call a designed WR screen, or run a gimmick play on 3rd downs.

Our offense is more or less designed to be more ball control than explosive plays so that isn't a complete knock on Roman and Harbaugh either.

 

[jayviabay]

You just have to look at our play calling. How many times did we run the ball, call a designed WR screen, or run a gimmick play on 3rd downs.

Our offense is more or less designed to be more ball control than explosive plays so that isn't a complete knock on Roman and Harbaugh either.

i have looked and even if we both agree it is still just an assumption on our part. I have read articles from the press that stated Alex looks more impressive and confident in practices but he is a different guy when it counts. So how much of his conservative play can you blame on his fears of making mistakes and hearing the Boo Birds?

 

[wartyOne]

I know the date on the page says its 2012, but I would swear by the tone of the conversation that its still 2007 and Smith is throwing passes 10 yards over guys' heads......rather than coming off a very efficient year. Sheesh.

I wouldn't call it efficient. Rodgers had a very efficient year. Smith didn't turn the ball over, but he didn't score much, didn't convert third downs much, and presided over too many 3 and outs for me to consider what he did very efficient.

Don't get me wrong, this was Smith's best year with the 9ers. When it's compared to other QB numbers, though, it's pretty pedestrian.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Pedestrian is about the nicest thing you guys have said about Smith in this thread.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Pedestrian is about the nicest thing you guys have said about Smith in this thread.

Because besides the TO stat, thats all his season was. Im all for smith coming back at the contract offered but im also all for Kap getting a look if Alex feels he is worth more then whats on the table.

When David Akers breaks the FG/scoring record then you know your QB had a pedestrian yr.

 

[mysfit]

I see people on here say Kaepernick has no hope at being successful, but also talk about Alex Boone as if he's the answer to all our OL problems, and talk about Dobbs, Williams and RJF as if they're the future of the DL.

So undrafted and late round picks are the future in the trenches (all 4 are going to be great), but the 2nd round QB is a bust already. . . ?

Mhmm

I haven't said squat about Boone but yeah IMO KAp will be a bust.
You think it's old now?

Wait til you see it live and in color. Then we'll see how 'old' it really gets.