It Begins: Cleveland Contacts Redskins About Trading Up To Number Five

[redskinsfan]

the " value " chart is the biggest fraud put upon football fans and if you use it for anymore then a guide you are a first class sap

Then why do so many GMs still use it? It's certainly not some talismanic source of value for picks, but, like you said, it's a 'guide' for them that can be adjusted for circumstances unique to each deal and prior market value set by other trades.

 

[redskinsfan]

My biggest fear is we trade down and draft Peat or Flowers and they turn out to be solid, but nothing more. Meanwhile Cooper or White are lighting it up. I guess I should qualify my trade down by saying as long as we can still get Scherff.

If that happens, we'll be just fine. If nothing else, they will be huge upgrades to the stiffs we currently had. And don't forget that Jansen, a cornerstone at RT we had for nearly a decade, was 'solid' too.

 

[kbso83432]

Jansen was very good. Love Jansen, but we earned that 5th pick. We sat through a 4-12 season on the heels of a 3-13 season. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that was tough on me. If Cleveland wants to move up 7 spots into the top 5 and all they are really offering is a lower mid 1st rounder, and then they have the nerve to ask for something else in return?..........I'm gonna have to tell them to call Oakland.

 

[skinsdad62]

Then why do so many GMs still use it? It's certainly not some talismanic source of value for picks, but, like you said, it's a 'guide' for them that can be adjusted for circumstances unique to each deal and prior market value set by other trades.

well they dont use it for anymore then a guide and they negotiate from there . if you dont get that , i cant help you

 

[redskinsfan]

well they dont use it for anymore then a guide and they negotiate from there . if you dont get that , i cant help you

How is that any different from what I just said? I said they use it as a guide.

 

[redskinsfan]

Jansen was very good. Love Jansen, but we earned that 5th pick. We sat through a 4-12 season on the heels of a 3-13 season. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that was tough on me. If Cleveland wants to move up 7 spots into the top 5 and all they are really offering is a lower mid 1st rounder, and then they have the nerve to ask for something else in return?..........I'm gonna have to tell them to call Oakland.

If we can get a 'solid' OT and OG with the #19 and second rounder we have, that would be a bonanza.

 

[skinsdad62]

How is that any different from what I just said? I said they use it as a guide.

the chart doesnt mean crap ok ? point values are meaningless , it depends on the players available and the disposition of the buyer and seller

 

[redskinsfan]

the chart doesnt mean crap ok ? point values are meaningless , it depends on the players available and the disposition of the buyer and seller

You've got some serious cognitive dissonance going on here, dad. You first admit that the chart can be used as a guide for further negotiation. I agree with that. Then you state it's 'crap.' You contradicted yourself and you're wrong too. Teams still use the chart as a guide subject to the other factors I discussed. And this point is wholly consistent with your prior 'guide' point.

 

[j_y19]

the chart doesnt mean crap ok ? point values are meaningless , it depends on the players available and the disposition of the buyer and seller

They do use the chart. Just as one would use Kelly blue book to value a used car they wanted to buy. But it isn't cast in stone, its a starting point. Based on demand and desperation, the actual value will go up or down.

 

[skinsdad62]

for board purposes its a start . but in the real world its crap and doesnt mean a thing . do i need a coloring book and crayons for you or what

you talk about it as if it is the end all be all of draft trades and how a cazzillion gms worship at its altar .

they dont

if there isnt a market out there that chart goes out the window , if there is a market out there thenit goes out the window

the buyer and seller determine what to give up for or take for it

so call me wrong if you like and i will just chuckle to myself

 

[redskinsfan]

for board purposes its a start . but in the real world its crap and doesnt mean a thing . do i need a coloring book and crayons for you or what

you talk about it as if it is the end all be all of draft trades and how a cazzillion gms worship at its altar .

they dont

if there isnt a market out there that chart goes out the window , if there is a market out there thenit goes out the window

the buyer and seller determine what to give up for or take for it

so call me wrong if you like and i will just chuckle to myself

Dude, can you read what we've said? We agree that it's a guide. Nothing more, nothing less. As j_y said, the Kelley Blue Book is a good analogy to what the draft value chart is.

 

[skinsdad62]

Dude, can you read what we've said? We agree that it's a guide. Nothing more, nothing less. As j_y said, the Kelley Blue Book is a good analogy to what the draft value chart is.

i am going to say it again , it is crap

 

[j_y19]

i am going to say it again , it is crap

Well, then it must be true. The expert has spoken.

 

[redskinsfan]

i am going to say it again , it is crap

well they dont use it for anymore then a guide and they negotiate from there

Then why did you previously say it was a guide? Do you not get the abject lack of congruence between calling something, on the one hand, a guide, and, on the other, "crap"?

 

[skinsdad62]

j-y 19 and redskinsfan , if you think the draft value chart is some great gizmo then fine . i think its crap if you dont like my opinion so be it . i think its crap . i told you why i think it

you want to parcel up words i said feel free to do so it means zip .

what does carry weight is this and it will always be this, no matter how much you want to debate it , the cost will be determined buy the buyer and the seller and it wont matter what some chart say that was made in the jimmy johnson era

hence it is crap IMO when it is all said and done

it is my opinion and my opinion only . mock "expert " retorts aside

 

[redskinsfan]

j-y 19 and redskinsfan , if you think the draft value chart is some great gizmo then fine . i think its crap if you dont like my opinion so be it . i think its crap . i told you why i think it

you want to parcel up words i said feel free to do so it means zip .

what does carry weight is this and it will always be this, no matter how much you want to debate it , the cost will be determined buy the buyer and the seller and it wont matter what some chart say that was made in the jimmy johnson era

hence it is crap IMO when it is all said and done

it is my opinion and my opinion only . mock "expert " retorts aside

Dad, you initially mentioned that the value was a "guide." That we agreed with. Then you went on to characterize it as crap. We're just noting we agreed with you the first time and disagreeing with your later description of the value chart. There's no packaging here.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah there is no doubt dad is talking in circles. Again. To totally dismiss the chart as crap is just wrong, especially after he agreed it's a guide. It's there for a reason and teams and fans all reference it. OK so it's not the Bible as I claimed but it is still useful to determine value.

Back on point I'm all over trading the 5th for 12 and 17. If you can add 2 good players, at possible need positions, that is a great move. And I have total confidence in SM being able to do just that with 2 first round picks.

 

[duke1861]

I am hoping we take the trade for #12 and #19 and go for the following:

12 = La'el Collins (Guard)
19 = Andrus Peat (RT)

The OLine would be set for years and then the rest of the draft would be used for depth, which would be great.

 

[bworku]

I think it's a little funny...when the draft order was first announced I feel like most people saw Cleveland as a great trade partner sitting there with 2 mid-first round picks. Now that we're in the week of the draft that idea all of a sudden seems ridiculous. Can't give up top 5 talent!