Is Russel Wilson an ELITE QB?

[WizardHawk]

Every QB is a game manager, I agree with that. But some QBs can be put into an offense that is incomplete and run it to become better than the sum of all of its parts

So as I said to you in another thread, you are saying it isn't possible to be an elite QB if you are on a team you don't have to carry often for them to win. Fine that you think that way, but it's sort of odd. The only great QB's to you are those that had some level of shit around them they had to wade through.

They can make an ordinary oc look like a genius. Wilson doesn't do that. Wilson plays within the offense, and the offense is built for his skill set by an oc that knows Wilson's strengths.

Ok, so here Wilson is less than great because his OC isn't a fucking idiot and does his job. Got it.

He doesn't make plays with his arm. He can make plays open up with his legs, and even scamper for a few yards, but if his offensive coordinator was someone like Ron turner or Mike Martz, Wilson would be an after thought throughout the league.

More blaming things outside of his control. He runs the plays given to him and does a SUPERIOR job of dealing with broken plays. In fact he is at historic levels of doing so. Not many QB's his age have the savvy to know when to create something out of a broken play and when to throw it away and go on to the next one. We should know. We had Hasselbeck for a number of years and he never did get that balance right.

Every throw I see him make is a throw to a player the play was designed for.

WRONG - clearly you don't watch games and contradicted yourself from the prior piece. Not only does he check down when needed, but making passes on the run scrambling out of a broken pocket by definition is completing passes to someone other than the planned play.

What he is improving at that we all notice is progressing through his reads faster. Maybe that's because the line appears to be a little better this year, or the game is slowing down, but he is finding his TE's or other outlet guys faster. That's part of developing as a young QB.

Name all of the greats in league history and go look at film of them over their first two years and tell me if they were all 'game managers' and nothing more.

What makes him better than almost all game managers is his ability to scramble out of the pocket which makes it easier for him to throw it away if nothing opens up.

And few in the league, young or not, make those decisions about when to extend vs throw away better than him. That's what makes him more than just a system QB. He would still have that skill set in any offense with any OC.

Call it what you want, and maybe game manager is the same thing to me as a system QB, which is a term I hate, but Wilson is not elite.

Elite is subjective and not purely qualitative. You have made it your duty to tell everyone in every thread how you view it and attempt to tear down anyone who dares to see it differently and at the end of the day it's just opinions and none are inherently right or wrong. They are just opinions.

He's above average for sure, but he's not elite.

Most Seahawk fans have said exactly that, well more like he is great but not elite. Those banging his drum the most are usually the Wisconsin fans that are so obsessed over him. This game had to kill them as most are also GB fans.

 

[flyerhawk]

One thing that I got from watching the game last night was how good Wilson's decision making was.

All of those read options require the QB to make a decision based on the defense. There was only one read option that really failed. The fake jet sweep handoff to Turbin and that was mostly because of Clay Matthews ignoring Harvin and keeping eyes on Turbin the entire time.

I think it was the touchdown to Lockette that most impressed because the entire Packers defense and the camera crew were completely fooled on the play.

Wilson looked in complete control the entire game. That doesn't mean that was flawless but no one is flawless.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

One graphic they used last night showed how much work Wilson has put in during the offseason on his release. He was getting the ball out as fast as 0.33 and 0.31 seconds on some plays. That is Manning, Brady, Brees kind of speed right there.

 

[Kold]

Everybody can't be elite. I love watching Wilson play, he makes the right decision nearly everytime, and he almost never turns over the ball. He bates defenses in with his running ability only to throw the ball, he's a very smart player and I can appreciate that...but he's not "elite". There's only 4, and I'm pretty sure I don't have to reel off those names

 

[flyerhawk]

MMBQ has a nice piece about the Seahawks and Wilson..

Seattle Seahawks, Russell Wilson do little things to beat Green Bay | The MMQB with Peter King

Talks about the Lockette TD which I also thought was the best play of the game. That play required Wilson to do a LOT. He had to sell the handoff, then sell the bootleg and then get the ball up to Lockette. Some folks here talk about Seahawk receivers being wide open. Well a big reason is because Wilson executes the play action extremely well.

Carroll admits he stole the play from Auburn.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I'm not really an elite or not elite guy because it's a fluid, subjective term...but...it was subtle...down 3 I think...right after a holding call pushed them back...now 1st and 20...RW was in shotgun, Lynch was to his right in pass protection position...calling out signals and RW saw something and w/o looking to the sideline he motioned Lynch to move back behind him...handed the ball to Lynch for an easy 10 yd gain, 2nd & 10...they went on to score a TD on that drive, but that made me think this guy is a player. He knows what he's looking at across the line.

Now with two true playmakers on OFC...SEA fans have a treat...I don' think the DEF is going to be that stout on the road, as they are in their building, but the OFC looks as if it will be better this year.

 

[gohusk]

It was a story of two halves. They didn't go to Lynch much early and Wilson was able to move the ball fine. Then when Seattle started pounding the ball you would have thought that they were game planning for a UFA rookie in the backfield for Wilson to hand off to. It was just way too easy on those counters to him. You can talk this guy, that guy, or the other all you want but a healthy dose of Wilson/Lynch/Harvin is going to be really tough to stop.

 

[Great Dayne]

Arguements against Wilson:

1.) Running team: If anything this hinders Wilson's production. One, it gives him less opportunities to chuck it and throw up dominant stats. Two, it gives him less opportunities to gain a relative streak or consistent flow with the WR's in the offense if they just say run for an entire half and then if the game is close or they're losing they rely completely on him and the defense knows he will be passing. Three, He's placed in obvious passing downs at a higher percentage than most QB's due to the run since they run on first, and second and many times it's 3rd and 5 and the Hawks ask RW to bail them out of their conservative play calling. Lastly, since their team is predicated for a great running game it hinders his help around him for the passing game. The O-line has been the worst pass blocking O-line for RW's career and the WR corps has been just as bad. Pro football focus and many other advanced statistical analyst websites display this. Their WR's and TE's have been second rate and he has no time to throw the rock.

2.) Great Defense: This is a hindrance again since they will be leading in majority of games and this gives him even less passing opportunities to display great numbers as they will continue to run with leads.

3.) Doesn't chuck the ball 30+ times a game: He's proven that when the team needs him to chuck it not only will he post the excellent numbers but majority of the time he leads the team with a clutch comeback win which few QB's have the ability to show. He doesn't lose the game either.

4.) Not enough experience: I stated this comment for Rodgers after his second year when I called him elite. Number of years is irrelevant normally after the second year because teams have had time to adjust to your game and style but still haven't adjusted and you're still improving and currently playing like the best in the league currently then their is no reason to not consider that player ELITE NOW.

RW is elite now, he doesn't need 4 more years to prove this, doesn't need to chuck the ball 30+ times a game and the team around him is more of a Independence in terms of proving himself statistically on a consistent basis.

/Thread

 

[Great Dayne]

So as I said to you in another thread, you are saying it isn't possible to be an elite QB if you are on a team you don't have to carry often for them to win. Fine that you think that way, but it's sort of odd. The only great QB's to you are those that had some level of shit around them they had to wade through.


Ok, so here Wilson is less than great because his OC isn't a fucking idiot and does his job. Got it.


More blaming things outside of his control. He runs the plays given to him and does a SUPERIOR job of dealing with broken plays. In fact he is at historic levels of doing so. Not many QB's his age have the savvy to know when to create something out of a broken play and when to throw it away and go on to the next one. We should know. We had Hasselbeck for a number of years and he never did get that balance right.

It didn't kill me as I expected it. Dom Capers is one of the most inept D coordinators in the NFL and he doesn't change so I know for a fact our D will be below average or worse every year no matter how superior are team is. We don't put the best players on the field for defense (Hawk, Joes, Shields) They're all trash and must be replaced. Our safeties in Dix and Burnett is the worst S combo in the NFL. Our D-line is field with many unproven young players. On D their are only two-three players that would make the Hawks team/start Tramon Williams, Matthews, and peppers. Our backup CB's are elite but shields starts over them and gives up at least one stupid TD a game like he did vs the Hawks.


WRONG - clearly you don't watch games and contradicted yourself from the prior piece. Not only does he check down when needed, but making passes on the run scrambling out of a broken pocket by definition is completing passes to someone other than the planned play.

What he is improving at that we all notice is progressing through his reads faster. Maybe that's because the line appears to be a little better this year, or the game is slowing down, but he is finding his TE's or other outlet guys faster. That's part of developing as a young QB.

Name all of the greats in league history and go look at film of them over their first two years and tell me if they were all 'game managers' and nothing more.


And few in the league, young or not, make those decisions about when to extend vs throw away better than him. That's what makes him more than just a system QB. He would still have that skill set in any offense with any OC.


Elite is subjective and not purely qualitative. You have made it your duty to tell everyone in every thread how you view it and attempt to tear down anyone who dares to see it differently and at the end of the day it's just opinions and none are inherently right or wrong. They are just opinions.




Most Seahawk fans have said exactly that, well more like he is great but not elite. Those banging his drum the most are usually the Wisconsin fans that are so obsessed over him. This game had to kill them as most are also GB fans.

 

[SonnyCID]

Every throw I see him make is a throw to a player the play was designed for.

Wow... Could you be more wrong? I get it, your knee deep in an internet argument and everything, but shit man.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Wow... Could you be more wrong? I get it, your knee deep in an internet argument and everything, but shit man.

Yeah when RW is scrambling for 5 seconds and makes a dart throw to his 4th read, thats a designed play

 

[Podunkparte]

Plus everyone knows elite QBs never throw to the guys they're supposed to. That's so pedestrian and cliche. The true elites like Eli only throw to the guys in visiting uniforms

 

[Swamp Dragon]

Is he an elite QB? Not yet, but then how many have been 33 games into their career? Notta one

 

[RoboticDreams]

He's good not elite. Maybe in 8 more years.

 

[WizardHawk]

He's good not elite. Maybe in 8 more years.

Wouldn't you all settle for just competent from Kaepernick at this point?

 

[Swamp Dragon]

Wouldn't you all settle for just competent from Kaepernick at this point?

The way he's been playing this preseason gives competent a bad name

 

[DunceKaep]

Romo is more efficient, lol. Now regroup, try not to make an ass out of yourself again, and say something with some merit.

That was a sweet pick that ROMO threw into Triple Coverage.
Now, as I type, he trows an endzone pick into Triple Coverage Again.

Poor, poor decision.

Defend that efficiency bigdaddytorr. Ridiculous.

 

[WizardHawk]

1. P. Manning
2. T. Brady
3. D. Brees
4. A. Rodgers
5. A. Luck
6. B. Roethlisberger
7. P. Rivers
8. T. Romo
9. J. Cutler
10. M. Ryan
11. N. Foles
12. R. Wilson
13. M. Stafford
14. C. Newton
15. J. Flacco
16. E. Manning
17. A. Dalton
18. J. Locker
19. C. Kaepernick
20. R. Griffin III
21. C. Palmer
22. R. Tannehill
23. A. Smith
24. G. Smith
25. D. Carr
26. M. Cassel
27. C. Henne
28. R. Fitzpatrick
29. J. McCown
30. EJ Manuel
31. B. Hoyer
32. S. Hill

Foles and Romo not living up to your level of play... or are they?

 

[WizardHawk]

Have to put Kaepernick above both of them based on today's play.

 

[Stratman72]

Reading this thread has made me want to blow up a lot of dumbass stat geeks. Someof you haters are seriously lacking any football intelligence!


Only one stat matters and that is wins! Bottom line!


Not good enough that Wilson has just about every record for the 1st 2 years of a career that truly matter. but the haters want to use the "you have an elite team" excuse. Nobody ever called our team elite until RW graced our team.


Manager my ass!!! He does what he has been told to do, and when we have needed him to step up and take the game over he has! Don't give me the "he throws to the guy he was supposed to " BS. He makes all of his reads and he does it very efficiently. He buys time with his superior running ability and makes receivers get open. You watch him scramble and his eyes are looking for every single player on the team. He doesn't take off until he has to.


The QB is the conductor of the offense and he is doing his job perfectly. The fakes and jet screens with Harvin do not work unless he sells it to the defense. His play action is flawless!


I am not ready to call him elite yet, but he is doing everything and more than the elite QB's did in their first 2 years. That should give you an idea of how good this kid really is.


I wouldn't trade RW for any other QB other than Rodgers at this point in their career and that is a stretch. He is perfect for our scheme!


Wins are all I care about and Russell is a winner. The more he proves the haters wrong, the more he makes them look stupid.