Is Russel Wilson an ELITE QB?

[Beengay fudgepackers]

I said this LOOOONNGG before Wilson was ever around so it isn't a personal bias. I have said it again and again but some people never seem to listen.

Using Passing Yards as an indicator of quality is just plain stupid.

Some QBs with over 4,000 yards in a season include: Brian Sipe, Jake Plummer, Don Majkowski, Scott Mitchell, Bill Kenney, Neil Lomax, Jon Kitna (2), Jeff George, Jeff Garcia, Mark Brunell, Andy Dalton, Lynn Dickey, Brad Johnson, Trent Green (3), Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins, Steve Beurerlein, Marc Bulger, Jay Schroeder,..........need I go on?? I would say that Wilson is already better than all on that list and might be better than many of the others that I did not list (only time will tell if he maintains to be better than Schaub, Ryan, Stafford, Eli Manning, Bledsoe, Palmer, etc. etc.)

Again, the best indicators are: Completion Percentage, Yards per Attempt, and TD to INT ratio. Use these instead of passing yards of be scoffed at for being an idiot.

I use the eye test. The QBs I named can all make plays with their arm that I don't think Wilson can. Wilson is a game manager that can run. He's great at scrambling until he finds someone wide open. If that play isn't there, he'll throw it away. That's what a game manager does, only before Wilson there has never really been a game manager that can scramble like Wilson can.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

My definition of an elite QB is a guy who can take and glaringly incomplete team and make them a contender. Peyton has done this. Brady has done this. Brees has done this. Rodgers has done this. I don't think Wilson can do this. Wilson took a stacked team to win the Super Bowl. Replace Wilson with his back up, and I still think the Seattle running game and defense make them a contender.

 

[bigdaddytorr]

I said this LOOOONNGG before Wilson was ever around so it isn't a personal bias. I have said it again and again but some people never seem to listen.

Using Passing Yards as an indicator of quality is just plain stupid.

Some QBs with over 4,000 yards in a season include: Brian Sipe, Jake Plummer, Don Majkowski, Scott Mitchell, Bill Kenney, Neil Lomax, Jon Kitna (2), Jeff George, Jeff Garcia, Mark Brunell, Andy Dalton, Lynn Dickey, Brad Johnson, Trent Green (3), Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins, Steve Beurerlein, Marc Bulger, Jay Schroeder,..........need I go on?? I would say that Wilson is already better than all on that list and might be better than many of the others that I did not list (only time will tell if he maintains to be better than Schaub, Ryan, Stafford, Eli Manning, Bledsoe, Palmer, etc. etc.)

Again, the best indicators are: Completion Percentage, Yards per Attempt, and TD to INT ratio. Use these instead of passing yards of be scoffed at for being an idiot.

BTW... You ever talk bad about Mark Brunell again I will slap the taste out of your mouth!!!

U DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB

 

[DunceKaep]

My definition of an elite QB is a guy who can take and glaringly incomplete team and make them a contender. Peyton has done this. Brady has done this. Brees has done this. Rodgers has done this. I don't think Wilson can do this. Wilson took a stacked team to win the Super Bowl. Replace Wilson with his back up, and I still think the Seattle running game and defense make them a contender.

Explain how Peyton, Rodgers, and Brees have taken an incomplete team. Explain this "incompleteness".
This stacked team was 4-12, 5-11, 7-9 and 7-9 before RW arrived, and people laughed at Pete and the Seahawks being under .500 FOREVER with this current "Stacked Unit" What a fucking joke of an argument.

Wilson in FACT did take an Imcomplete team that neither Flynn, Whitehurst, or T-Jak could get above .500, yet you try to claim that RW's 'backup" would make Seattle a contender.

It in FACT took RW to make Seattle a contender.

 

[darken65]

RW played behind one of the crappiest OL I've ever seen to compete and eventually win a SB. The OL looked better tonight. I don't consider him an elite just yet but he is no game manager for sure. When the 'Hawks put up numbers on offense like they do ,make no mistake that they can ball with the likes of the elite QBs in the NFL. Having the running game is key here as well.


Oh and Seattle sucks!

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Explain how Peyton, Rodgers, and Brees have taken an incomplete team. Explain this "incompleteness".
This stacked team was 4-12, 5-11, 7-9 and 7-9 before RW arrived, and people laughed at Pete and the Seahawks being under .500 FOREVER with this current "Stacked Unit" What a fucking joke of an argument.

Wilson in FACT did take an Imcomplete team that neither Flynn, Whitehurst, or T-Jak could get above .500, yet you try to claim that RW's 'backup" would make Seattle a contender.

It in FACT took RW to make Seattle a contender.

You must not watch football much because 2 years in football time is A LONG ass time. By your logic, the bears were shit in 04, but then Rex grossman stayed healthy and then the bears went to the Super Bowl in 06, so I guess that makes Rex really good too, eh?

 

[DunceKaep]

RW played behind one of the crappiest OL I've ever seen to compete and eventually win a SB. The OL looked better tonight. I don't consider him an elite just yet but he is no game manager for sure. When the 'Hawks put up numbers on offense like they do ,make no mistake that they can ball with the likes of the elite QBs in the NFL. Having the running game is key here as well.


Oh and Santa Clara 9er's sucks!

FIFY.


The Hawk OL is improving, and was terrible, yet RW still made the offense roll. It will roll bigger this year, just watch, and why???? RW of course.
Kaep scares the shit out of me, and probably most 9er fans too, for a different reason.
Scares me because he will get pressure and throw a laser for a 35+ yard gain, OR, just tuck it and fucking run for a 70 yard TD. That is scary. I'm guessing he scares 9er fans because after a great play, it is very possible to follow with a crushing blow play.
RW does neither of these, and that is what makes him GREAT.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

RW played behind one of the crappiest OL I've ever seen to compete and eventually win a SB. The OL looked better tonight. I don't consider him an elite just yet but he is no game manager for sure. When the 'Hawks put up numbers on offense like they do ,make no mistake that they can ball with the likes of the elite QBs in the NFL. Having the running game is key here as well.


Oh and Seattle sucks!

Lol... At least your objective about it... People that call Wilson a game manager seriously don't know the game of football ... It's funny because if you take Luck for instance, and he had the start to his career that Wilson has had with the exact same numbers they'd be molding his statue head in Canton already... I think the height thing some people just can't let go of...

 

[DunceKaep]

You must not watch football much because 2 years in football time is A LONG ass time. By your logic, the bears were shit in 04, but then Rex grossman stayed healthy and then the bears went to the Super Bowl in 06, so I guess that makes Rex really good too, eh?

Quit being an idiot.
Check the facts I presented.
Seahawks sucked for 4 straight years.
The outlook for 2012 was bleak too.
The ONLY reason the Seahawks made the playoffs and beat the Saints was because of the 'terrible' NFCW, and because of the ridiculous Home Playoff Game the Seahawks were awarded for winning a shitty division.
That was the consensus, correct?

THEN, RW is named starter, and the Seahawks somehow contend, on a 2013 team that no one predicted would be great. RW made them GREAT.

Is it that hard to see?

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

You must not watch football much because 2 years in football time is A LONG ass time. By your logic, the bears were shit in 04, but then Rex grossman stayed healthy and then the bears went to the Super Bowl in 06, so I guess that makes Rex really good too, eh?

Rex threw horrible INT's all the time... Didn't have nearly the completion percentage or qb rating of Wilson... Or the clutch factor... Wilson is true leader Rex wasn't even close...

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Lol... At least your objective about it... People that call Wilson a game manager seriously don't know the game of football ... It's funny because if you take Luck for instance, and he had the start to his career that Wilson has had with the exact same numbers they'd be molding his statue head in Canton already... I think the height thing some people just can't let go of...

How is calling him a very good game manager not being objective? With the Seahawks, you don't need your QB to do much more than hand it off, make wide open throws and not turn the ball over. That's what a game manager does. Russell Wilson can also run out of the pocket and throw it to wide open guys on the run. It's an added dimension that makes him dangerous. He can basically negate any defensive line by scrambling out of the pocket. If he runs into a team that can hold coverage, while sniffing out the sea hawks gimmicks and keeping Wilson from scrambling for gains, Wilson will not do near as well.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Rex threw horrible INT's all the time... Didn't have nearly the completion percentage or qb rating of Wilson... Or the clutch factor... Wilson is true leader Rex wasn't even close...

Yeah, but they went from 5-11 to 13-3 in that time and nothing really changed but the QB. I'm not saying Rex is good, or even better than Wilson, what I'm saying is just because his team went from sub 500 to a quality team doesn't mean he's a good QB. There's a lot more factors involved. That Seahawks defense is unreal good. Probably the best we've seen since 85. It wasn't near as good 2 years ago.

 

[DunceKaep]

Is Ben Elite?
If so, WHY?

 

[WizardHawk]

I don't recall the first play, but the second play you talk about just about any player in the nfl could've made. That was all about the play call. And Wilson is far from top five. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, And Peyton are all on another level. Roethlisburger, Eli, Cam, Ryan, Stafford, and a few others are all better in my book too.

I can show you at least 6 plays tonight that Rodgers looked fucking horrible on. Every QB has bad plays and make bad decisions on various plays. The great ones don't make many that cost their team.
First drive Rodgers throws a simple out pass so low the receiver basically fell over trying to catch it. There were a few throws like that (as there are for every QB every game). The INT was a bad bounce, but he lead the receiver too far and that directly lead to it. It's football.

How is calling him a very good game manager not being objective?

Every single QB in the league is a game manager. It's part of the job description for the position. You don't find credible NFL analysts that use that term because it really has no meaning to those that know the game. Use it to your hearts content, but it just shows you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Yeah, but they went from 5-11 to 13-3 in that time and nothing really changed but the QB. I'm not saying Rex is good, or even better than Wilson, what I'm saying is just because his team went from sub 500 to a quality team doesn't mean he's a good QB. There's a lot more factors involved. That Seahawks defense is unreal good. Probably the best we've seen since 85. It wasn't near as good 2 years ago.

06 Bears were a dam good defense as well... Bears were a playoff Team in 05 as well ... And yes Seattle's D is elite no argument there...

 

[DunceKaep]

06 Bears were a dam good defense as well... Bears were a playoff Team in 05 as well ... And yes Seattle's D is elite no argument there...

Their weak argument is, you can't be "Elite" with that strong D and Strong Running Game. LOL.
Is see no other defense for them.

RW is ELITE, and I would not trade him for Luck or any other QB. Nope.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

I can show you at least 6 plays tonight that Rodgers looked fucking horrible on. Every QB has bad plays and make bad decisions on various plays. The great ones don't make many that cost their team.
First drive Rodgers throws a simple out pass so low the receiver basically fell over trying to catch it. There were a few throws like that (as there are for every QB every game). The INT was a bad bounce, but he lead the receiver too far and that directly lead to it. It's football.

Every single QB in the league is a game manager. It's part of the job description for the position. You don't find credible NFL analysts that use that term because it really has no meaning to those that know the game. Use it to your hearts content, but it just shows you don't know what you are talking about.

Every QB is a game manager, I agree with that. But some QBs can be put into an offense that is incomplete and run it to become better than the sum of all of its parts. They can make an ordinary oc look like a genius. Wilson doesn't do that. Wilson plays within the offense, and the offense is built for his skill set by an oc that knows Wilson's strengths. He doesn't make plays with his arm. He can make plays open up with his legs, and even scamper for a few yards, but if his offensive coordinator was someone like Ron turner or Mike Martz, Wilson would be an after thought throughout the league. Every throw I see him make is a throw to a player the play was designed for. That's what a game manager does. What makes him better than almost all game managers is his ability to scramble out of the pocket which makes it easier for him to throw it away if nothing opens up. Call it what you want, and maybe game manager is the same thing to me as a system QB, which is a term I hate, but Wilson is not elite. He's above average for sure, but he's not elite. Well have to see later on in his career though when the defense starts to deteriorate and the running game starts to break down. Personally, I have a hunch that if his oc leaves next year we will start to see him less able to move the ball. He could become elite, but he hasn't shown it to me yet.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Every QB is a game manager, I agree with that. But some QBs can be put into an offense that is incomplete and run it to become better than the sum of all of its parts. They can make an ordinary oc look like a genius. Wilson doesn't do that. Wilson plays within the offense, and the offense is built for his skill set by an oc that knows Wilson's strengths. He doesn't make plays with his arm. He can make plays open up with his legs, and even scamper for a few yards, but if his offensive coordinator was someone like Ron turner or Mike Martz, Wilson would be an after thought throughout the league. Every throw I see him make is a throw to a player the play was designed for. That's what a game manager does. What makes him better than almost all game managers is his ability to scramble out of the pocket which makes it easier for him to throw it away if nothing opens up. Call it what you want, and maybe game manager is the same thing to me as a system QB, which is a term I hate, but Wilson is not elite. He's above average for sure, but he's not elite. Well have to see later on in his career though when the defense starts to deteriorate and the running game starts to break down. Personally, I have a hunch that if his oc leaves next year we will start to see him less able to move the ball. He could become elite, but he hasn't shown it to me yet.

You need to watch more of Russell Wilson... Did you see Seattle's o-line at times last year? I honestly don't think you've watched him enough...

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

06 Bears were a dam good defense as well... Bears were a playoff Team in 05 as well ... And yes Seattle's D is elite no argument there...

Well wasn't Seattle a playoff team the two year prior to their Super Bowl win? My argument with that whole post was two years is a long time in football. A defense that is merely top 5, or top 10 can turn into a truly elite defense that can take a team to a Super Bowl over the course of 2 years.

 

[DunceKaep]

Every QB is a game manager, I agree with that. But some QBs can be put into an offense that is incomplete and run it to become better than the sum of all of its parts. They can make an ordinary oc look like a genius. Wilson doesn't do that. Wilson plays within the offense, and the offense is built for his skill set by an oc that knows Wilson's strengths. He doesn't make plays with his arm. He can make plays open up with his legs, and even scamper for a few yards, but if his offensive coordinator was someone like Ron turner or Mike Martz, Wilson would be an after thought throughout the league. Every throw I see him make is a throw to a player the play was designed for. That's what a game manager does. What makes him better than almost all game managers is his ability to scramble out of the pocket which makes it easier for him to throw it away if nothing opens up. Call it what you want, and maybe game manager is the same thing to me as a system QB, which is a term I hate, but Wilson is not elite. He's above average for sure, but he's not elite. Well have to see later on in his career though when the defense starts to deteriorate and the running game starts to break down. Personally, I have a hunch that if his oc leaves next year we will start to see him less able to move the ball. He could become elite, but he hasn't shown it to me yet.

You speak of the OC, but I'd like your opinion of the Seahawk OC. (Go ahead and do a google search). Is our OC head coach material? Is he average? Does RW make him better or does our OC make RW better. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways, which you are trying to do.