Is Luka for AD the most shocking trade of all time

[shopson67]

I am just explaining to people that Doncic's value is not as high as many believe it to be.

You and Harrison might be the only two people that believe that, but it's your opinion.

On the open market, a deal for Doncic would've been tons of draft capital, young prospects and matching salary. AD and Christie have value, but not anything approaching what the other offers would have brought.

 

[flyerhawk]

And AD is a current top 8-10 player in the League and a premier C. Probably right behind Joker since Embiid is hurt.

Let's not act like the Mavs traded Luka for a bunch of trash.

AD is a really good player. But he's 31 years old and doesn't like playing center and gets hurt a lot. Realistically how many more years of All-NBA level player can they expect to get.

But ultimately it's not even that it was a bad trade. It's that Harrison didn't even try to test the market.

 

[flyerhawk]

People continually cite Doncic's one trip to the Finals at 25 years old as evidence of his value. Iverson did exactly the same thing, and not many others have, so he is the closet comparison of which I am aware. This is how valuation works, one looks for comparables and compares them. People also cite Doncic's 30ppg playoff average. Iverson finished at 29.73. Again, extremely comparable.

OK. But they aren't comparable players. And the fact that the Sixers never got back to their 2000 level has nothing to do with whether the Mavericks can do it.

Doncic is the better passer, but Iverson actually got DPOY votes in several seasons, finishing as high as 6th -- and I will be exceedingly shocked if Doncic ever matches that feat.

Doncic is a better 3 point shooter and a better passer. He will never a high level defensive player, barring a huge shift in his focus. Iverson was a tenacious player but his size was a huge problem defensively..

I never said otherwise. I am just explaining to people that Doncic's value is not as high as many believe it to be.

Well you aren't doing a very good job. If his value is that he would be traded for any player not named Giannis, Jokic, or Wemby then his value is pretty damn high. Since they didn't talk to any other teams, it's hard to know what other teams would have offered.

 

[flyerhawk]

You and Harrison might be the only two people that believe that, but it's your opinion.

On the open market, a deal for Doncic would've been tons of draft capital, young prospects and matching salary. AD and Christie have value, but not anything approaching what the other offers would have brought.

Exactly. I don't think this is even all that controversial.

 

[tc1]

OK. But they aren't comparable players.

They have different styles, but they are extremely comparable.

And the fact that the Sixers never got back to their 2000 level has nothing to do with whether the Mavericks can do it.

It serves as a cautionary tale for those assuming that Doncic will ever be able to repeat his career-best play of last April to June. Apart from that short stretch, Doncic has not contributed to a whole lot of winning basketball in his NBA career. Overall, except for those couple playoff series, the Mavericks have been mediocre throughout Doncic's career.

Doncic is a better 3 point shooter and a better passer. He will never a high level defensive player, barring a huge shift in his focus. Iverson was a tenacious player but his size was a huge problem defensively..

Iverson led the league in steals three times, and was considered extremely competent on that end of the floor -- as evidenced by finishing as high as 6th for DPOY. To put it mildly, this is world's better than Doncic on that end.

Well you aren't doing a very good job. If his value is that he would be traded for any player not named Giannis, Jokic, or Wemby then his value is pretty damn high. Since they didn't talk to any other teams, it's hard to know what other teams would have offered.

It would help if people would read what I write, instead of inventing strawmen to argue against.

 

[trojanfan12]

AD is a really good player. But he's 31 years old and doesn't like playing center and gets hurt a lot. Realistically how many more years of All-NBA level player can they expect to get.

But ultimately it's not even that it was a bad trade. It's that Harrison didn't even try to test the market.

The whole thing is really weird and I'm not even necessarily talking about him not approaching any other teams. In fact, that's actually the part that makes the most sense. Nico has wanted AD for years and has approached the Lakers multiple times over the years. The only reason a deal never happened before is that Luka was never on the table. This time he was. So, Nico knew who he wanted and went and got him.

What's weird is that there is a report that Mavs ownership decided they weren't going to pay Doncic the max and told Nico to move him for whatever he could get. So, they may have basically approached it as almost a salary dump on a guy who just led them to the finals.

Also weird is that if reports are true, Pelinka actually talked the asking price down. Apparently, the Mavs original request was both 1sts and Knecht along with AD and Christie.

Additionally, there's the fact that absolutely no one (including both players and their agents) knew that this was being worked on, even though they had apparently been in discussions for 2 weeks before they finalized.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I know you're no Laker fan but the Lakers conditioning staff has been working with AD....and he has played a lot of games the last 2 seasons....if he takes care of his body he can play like this for another 3-4 years.....the timeline Nico is targeting with Irving.

I don't doubt what you said about Luka but clearly Nico is betting against Luka. I hope Nico is wrong for my own selfish reasons but your Mavs have a great shot at making the WCF (more so than they did before). Especially, If Nico isn't done yet and makes another smaller deal.

I will be pulling for the Lakers now too. I love Luka, he's an even better player than Dirk was. His talent is Larry Bird level, if he does get in great shape, he's comparable to LBJ. Not the high flier or defender LeBron was, but while this kid was "fat and out of shape" like Nico said last year, he averaged. 34/9/10 last season. His career average is 29/9/8. LBJ's best statistical season was 31/7/7 and 30/8/8. Luka's ppg, rpg and apg are all higher than Lebron's for his career. I am by NO means saying Luka is better than LeBron. I'm saying while fat and out of shape he puts up better numbers than the co-goat. He never shrinks, plays best in the clutch and on the road. This kid is insulted now, and gets the chance to learn from LBJ and have the advantage AD was had with the Lakers training staff. The Lakers will win Championship(s) with this kid

 

[tc1]

You and Harrison might be the only two people that believe that, but it's your opinion.

I only said that Doncic's value is lower than people are claiming, and provided evidence as to why. People are claiming that Doncic automatically makes a team a title contender, and that has not even been remotely the case in Dallas. No one would have even suggested such a wild idea, before April of last year.

Valuing a player based only on the best several-month stretch of his career is never accurate, by definition.

On the open market, a deal for Doncic would've been tons of draft capital, young prospects and matching salary.

You just described the package that Davis was traded for. In other words, that's roughly Davis' value ( minus some depreciation for age ).

 

[DJ Fieri]

I will be pulling for the Lakers now too. I love Luka, he's an even better player than Dirk was. His talent is Larry Bird level, if he does get in great shape, he's comparable to LBJ. Not the high flier or defender LeBron was, but while this kid was "fat and out of shape" like Nico said last year, he averaged. 34/9/10 last season. His career average is 29/9/8. LBJ's best statistical season was 31/7/7 and 30/8/8. Luka's ppg, rpg and apg are all higher than Lebron's for his career. I am by NO means saying Luka is better than LeBron. I'm saying while fat and out of shape he puts up better numbers than the co-goat. He never shrinks, plays best in the clutch and on the road. This kid is insulted now, and gets the chance to learn from LBJ and have the advantage AD was had with the Lakers training staff. The Lakers will win Championship(s) with this kid

I hope Bron mentors him until he retires and teaches him about keeping his body in shape.....Bron has done that his entire career.

And Luka should take this as a challenge to Nico.....show him you can be a well conditioned player, don't tell him.

 

[DJ Fieri]

I only said that Doncic's value is lower than people are claiming, and provided evidence as to why. People are claiming that Doncic automatically makes a team a title contender, and that has not even been remotely the case in Dallas. No one would have even suggested such a wild idea, before April of last year.

Valuing a player based only on the best several-month stretch of his career is never accurate, by definition.



You just described the package that Davis was traded for. In other words, that's roughly Davis' value ( minus some depreciation for age ).

Last season wasn't the first time he had ever led a team deep into the playoffs.....

You don't remember the Luka-Brunson run?

 

[DJ Fieri]

AD is a really good player. But he's 31 years old and doesn't like playing center and gets hurt a lot. Realistically how many more years of All-NBA level player can they expect to get.

But ultimately it's not even that it was a bad trade. It's that Harrison didn't even try to test the market.

Because, Nico wanted AD. He believes he is the type of player for their culture and the kind of basketball they want to play.

You would know this if you watched the press conference.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I hope Bron mentors him until he retires and teaches him about keeping his body in shape.....Bron has done that his entire career.

And Luka should take this as a challenge to Nico.....show him you can be a well conditioned player, don't tell him.

I think he will. The thing I love about this kid is his competitiveness. Go back and watch him talking shit to fans and players trying to guard him im the playoffs last season. Nico insulted the shot out of him on the way out. He has been playing hurt all season and still averages 28 a game lol. I know this, I'm taking the over on Luka points anytime the Lakers play the Mavs. He's going to light their ass up like a Christmas tree

 

[DJ Fieri]

The whole thing is really weird and I'm not even necessarily talking about him not approaching any other teams. In fact, that's actually the part that makes the most sense. Nico has wanted AD for years and has approached the Lakers multiple times over the years. The only reason a deal never happened before is that Luka was never on the table. This time he was. So, Nico knew who he wanted and went and got him.

What's weird is that there is a report that Mavs ownership decided they weren't going to pay Doncic the max and to move him for whatever he could get. So, they may have basically approached it as almost a salary dump on a guy who just led them to the finals.

Also weird is that if reports are true, Pelinka actually talked the asking price down. Apparently, the Mavs original request was both 1sts and Knecht along with AD and Christie.

Additionally, there's the fact that absolutely no one (including both players and their agents) knew that this was being worked on, even though they had apparently been in discussions for 2 weeks before they finalized.

These new owners are really shy about spending huge money (except Ishbia) after spending a lot to purchase said franchise.

It's why the Celtics might be trading off their key guys in a few years.

 

[flyerhawk]

They have different styles, but they are extremely comparable.

You searched for a situation that suits your argument.

It serves as a cautionary tale for those assuming that Doncic will ever be able to repeat his career-best play of last April to June. Apart from that short stretch, Doncic has not contributed to a whole lot of winning basketball in his NBA career. Overall, except for those couple playoff series, the Mavericks have been mediocre throughout Doncic's career.

So in his first 6 seasons, he has reached a finals and a conference final and the playoffs 4 times. Saying that he hasn't contributed to a whole lot of winning is a pretty absurd claim. Young stars rarely contribute to deep playoff runs.

Let's compare him to a different player who was a young star. First 6 seasons he made one finals, one conference finals and 2 early playoff exists and missed the playoffs twice. He's now a teammate with Luka.

Iverson led the league in steals three times, and was considered extremely competent on that end of the floor -- as evidenced by finishing as high as 6th for DPOY. To put it mildly, this is world's better than Doncic on that end.

If you want to argue that Iverson was a top level defensive player because he once was voted 6th or DPOY, knock yourself out.

It would help if people would read what I write, instead of inventing strawmen to argue against.

I've read what you have written. You just haven't done a very good job arguing your position. Focusing on Allen Iversion is cherry picking. Ignoring the fact that very very few players have 5 1st team All-NBA awards by age 25. Lebron only had 3 in his first 6 seasons. Jordan had 4.

I'm not saying that Luka is on the level of either of them but that is the air he's in.

 

[DJ Fieri]

I think he will. The thing I love about this kid is his competitiveness. Go back and watch him talking shit to fans and players trying to guard him im the playoffs last season. Nico insulted the shot out of him on the way out. He has been playing hurt all season and still averages 28 a game lol. I know this, I'm taking the over on Luka points anytime the Lakers play the Mavs. He's going to light their ass up like a Christmas tree

Some people are saying Luka and Bron cannot play together and that makes me laugh. Bron can play with anybody and at his age? He prolly going to defer to Luka as the primary ballhandler and Luka should be able to find an open Bron. And they both still could average 28 or so ppg. Luka prolly 30-plus, even playing with Bron.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Bron prolly average closer to 25ppg and defers to Luka....

 

[UK Cowboy]

Last season wasn't the first time he had ever led a team deep into the playoffs.....

You don't remember the Luka-Brunson run?

100%. You can make the argument the Mavs have had the worst 5 year stretch in NBA history. Yes that have Kyrie, but they are paying for Kyrie. They had Brunson under contract and had a chance to sign hin to a less than max deal the year before he took off but the Mavs turned his agent down flat and then refused to match the Knicks offer. Then they have Luka and give him away for a guy 6 years older. Mind bogglingly bad

 

[DJ Fieri]

100%. You can make the argument the Mavs have had the worst 5 year stretch in NBA history. Yes that have Kyrie, but they are paying for Kyrie. They had Brunson under contract and had a chance to sign hin to a less than max deal the year before he took off but the Mavs turned his agent down flat and then refused to match the Knicks offer. Then they have Luka and give him away for a guy 6 years older. Mind bogglingly bad

This tc1 guy is hilarious. He knows some stuff but whiffing on other stuff.

 

[flyerhawk]

The whole thing is really weird and I'm not even necessarily talking about him not approaching any other teams. In fact, that's actually the part that makes the most sense. Nico has wanted AD for years and has approached the Lakers multiple times over the years. The only reason a deal never happened before is that Luka was never on the table. This time he was. So, Nico knew who he wanted and went and got him.

What's weird is that there is a report that Mavs ownership decided they weren't going to pay Doncic the max and told Nico to move him for whatever he could get. So, they may have basically approached it as almost a salary dump on a guy who just led them to the finals.

Also weird is that if reports are true, Pelinka actually talked the asking price down. Apparently, the Mavs original request was both 1sts and Knecht along with AD and Christie.

Additionally, there's the fact that absolutely no one (including both players and their agents) knew that this was being worked on, even though they had apparently been in discussions for 2 weeks before they finalized.

Harrison screwed up, IMO. He was obsessed with getting AD and didn't get the best deal they could have got.

Maybe ownership told him to do that either because they wanted AD or they wanted the deal done without it being leaked. But still a terrible deal.

 

[flyerhawk]

100%. You can make the argument the Mavs have had the worst 5 year stretch in NBA history. Yes that have Kyrie, but they are paying for Kyrie. They had Brunson under contract and had a chance to sign hin to a less than max deal the year before he took off but the Mavs turned his agent down flat and then refused to match the Knicks offer. Then they have Luka and give him away for a guy 6 years older. Mind bogglingly bad

Exactly. Mavs management has made some really bad decisions. Honestly they got super lucky that the Hawks were willing to swap Doncic for Young and some picks.