Is Luka for AD the most shocking trade of all time

[UK Cowboy]

What AD should do is refuse to play for the Mavs and demand a trade to the Lakers.

And when he stops getting paychecks he will reconsider...

 

[UK Cowboy]

Harden was never traded straight up for either of those players, nor anything close to it, and you are seemingly referring to trades that occurred when Harden was in his mid-thirties. Let's see what Doncic's trade value is in ten years, after he's been cast in the reboot of The Whale.

It's embarrassing to you that I have to point out that Harden's career is nearly done, and Doncic's is not.

That said, Harden was also traded (with 2 throw-ins) for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 firsts and a second -- before he was even a starter in the league. That's arguably a similar return to what Doncic just pulled, based only on Harden's potential as a 23 year-old. If Houston had traded Harden at 25, the return would have been enormous.

You know how far off you are Bro? If you go off stats and success by age, Luka is closer to LBJ than he is Harden...

 

[DJ Fieri]

Now James and Doncic aren't good passers?

Cannot make this ish up, LOL.

 

[tc1]

I was talking about their stars not player like Fisher, and in my lifetime. Off the top of my head my list is:

Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Kobe
AD
LeBron
Luka

When was the last time they drafted one of their actual stars? Worthy 58 years ago?

Again, as I previously observed, their MO is to draft better than everyone else, and then package their excess assets in trade for star players when they become available. To some degree, this is necessary for a franchise that almost always makes the playoffs, and plays in the Finals almost as often as not -- they are not going to have early picks, unless they trade for them, and there's no meaningful difference between trading for the pick and trading for the player later.

That is precisely how they obtained Abdul-Jabbar, Bryant, Davis, and now Doncic.

Back in the day, when the draft was like 15 rounds long, the Lakers used to take late-round flyers on players with college eligibility left, and try to talk them into signing early. That's why they drafted Elgin Baylor twice -- once in the 14th round in '56, and again in the first in '58. They tried to snag Sam and KC Jones the same way -- if they had succeeded, the Celtics dynasty probably never happens.

Many of the players that I listed were stars -- whether or not your knowledge is sufficient to consider them such is not really relevant.

Here's another way for you to understand the situation. How many of the Lakers' 17 titles resulted from anything other than drafted talent -- which would be free agency?

O'Neal is largely responsible for 3 titles, and James for 1.

Have fun searching for the next most-impactful Laker free-agent signing, with respect to championships.

I'll save you the time, it's Kurt Rambis -- who won four rings, two as a starter. And even he doesn't really count, because he was a "free agent" who wasn't even in the league at all, having been released from a 10-day contract with the Knicks a few months earlier.

That's it -- it's O'Neal, James, and then Rambis.

All of their other titles came courtesy of drafted players, or players that they traded drafted players for. And even James' title doesn't happen without the drafted assets that the Lakers had collected. Nor would've O'Neal's, because they needed Divac to trade for Bryant.

So again, as I've said, the Lakers are "the Lakers" due to the established fact that they draft better than any team ever has, in any sport -- and no one is even in a close second place.

 

[tc1]

If you go off stats and success by age, Luka is closer to LBJ than he is Harden...

James had 2 MVPs by 25 (plus a second). Harden at 25 finished second for his first time. Doncic has a high of 3rd so far, and will not be eligible this season.

Doncic is (behind and) __a lot__ closer to Harden than to James.

Again, you've made your opinion clear. It is not shared by many basketball people.

 

[tc1]

Now James and Doncic aren't good passers?

Cannot make this ish up, LOL.

Well you can make it up if you just ignore the words on the screen, as you have been.

 

[tlance]

Again, as I previously observed, their MO is to draft better than everyone else, and then package their excess assets in trade for star players when they become available. To some degree, this is necessary for a franchise that almost always makes the playoffs, and plays in the Finals almost as often as not -- they are not going to have early picks, unless they trade for them, and there's no meaningful difference between trading for the pick and trading for the player later.

That is precisely how they obtained Abdul-Jabbar, Bryant, Davis, and now Doncic.

Back in the day, when the draft was like 15 rounds long, the Lakers used to take late-round flyers on players with college eligibility left, and try to talk them into signing early. That's why they drafted Elgin Baylor twice -- once in the 14th round in '56, and again in the first in '58. They tried to snag Sam and KC Jones the same way -- if they had succeeded, the Celtics dynasty probably never happens.

Many of the players that I listed were stars -- whether or not your knowledge is sufficient to consider them such is not really relevant.

Here's another way for you to understand the situation. How many of the Lakers' 17 titles resulted from anything other than drafted talent -- which would be free agency?

O'Neal is largely responsible for 3 titles, and James for 1.

Have fun searching for the next most-impactful Laker free-agent signing, with respect to championships.

I'll save you the time, it's Kurt Rambis -- who won four rings, two as a starter. And even he doesn't really count, because he was a "free agent" who wasn't even in the league at all, having been released from a 10-day contract with the Knicks a few months earlier.

That's it -- it's O'Neal, James, and then Rambis.

All of their other titles came courtesy of drafted players, or players that they traded drafted players for. And even James' title doesn't happen without the drafted assets that the Lakers had collected. Nor would've O'Neal's, because they needed Divac to trade for Bryant.

So again, as I've said, the Lakers are "the Lakers" due to the established fact that they draft better than any team ever has, in any sport -- and no one is even in a close second place.

Back when Jerry West was at the helm you might have had an argument.

He isn’t anymore.

And the current regime doesn’t get to take credit from success of the past.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Well you can make it up if you just ignore the words on the screen, as you have been.

You basically said James and Doncic aren't good passers on the previous page....LOL.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Approximately 4-5 people telling him he's wrong and he insists he's right.

Classic narcissist.

 

[tc1]

Every team that has ever had Harden would trade Harden plus picks and players for Luka. No team would ever trade Luka straight up for Harden. Case closed

Dallas just traded 25 year-old Doncic for 32 year-old Davis and Max Christie and Laker first.

Get a hold of yourself, you are talking crazy.

Harden was top-3 in MVP voting in 5 of 6 consecutive seasons, and absolutely no one would have proposed that he could be acquired for Anthony Davis, a recent second-round pick, and a Laker first.

As noted previously, Harden pulled a comparable return to yesterday's trade when he was 23, and had started only a handful of games.

You are blathering complete nonsense, I'm afraid.

 

[tc1]

You basically said James and Doncic aren't good passers on the previous page....LOL.

"Among the best ever" != "good".

Go back to grade school.

 

[trojanfan12]

There's no statistical support for Irving being even a match for James. You have to give Irving style points, or something.

There is and it's been provided.

We'll see. I am very sad to see Christie traded, but the bottom line is that Dallas has several more-experienced and arguably-better wings.

I like him too and was enjoying watching him grow his game...but you don't pass an opportunity to get Luke over Max Christie.

No, Irving averages 4.8 assists per game this season. His career average is 5.6, Neither are impressive numbers for a point guard, which he has been for most of his career.

Already been explained.

Neither James nor Doncic are among the best playmakers ever.

This is just flat wrong.

Yeah, because James finally has better passers than Irving to play with.

No, James is 40 years old and can't spend the entire season having the offense run through him and expect to have much left for the playoffs.

 

[tc1]

For me it's Luka > Harden.

And the main reason is Harden's playoff failures with multiple teams and the fact that he's quit on more than one team.

I'm not a fan of either player. Is quitting on a team better or worse than refusing to take your job sufficiently serious such that your team is forced to quit on you?

1. You trying to say super stars don't have bad Finals games?

I'm sure I never wrote that, and I'm not sure why you'd suggest it.

 

[tc1]

They will definitely need him. Not sure about making AD look like AC Green (not that there's any shame in that), when they've met head to head, AD has pretty much bullied him.

I meant with respect to availability.

 

[msgkings322]

I tried to tell other Laker fans before the draft that if James Jr was on the board, the Lakers would absolutely select him -- just to prevent his father from getting any goofy ideas about demanding a trade to whoever owned his son's rights. That alone made the pick worthwhile. People were harping on him not being good enough to be drafted -- and he wasn't, but that didn't matter.

But look around the league -- there are not many 6'2" players, and they are all much quicker than James Jr, much better ball handlers, and much, much better shooters. Except Gabe Vincent, but he also should be playing in the G League as he has zero redeeming value as an NBA player.

A possible comp for Bronny is Gary Payton II (also the less talented son of a HOFer). Same height, defensive skill, hops. Far from a star, useful bench player.

 

[UK Cowboy]

James had 2 MVPs by 25 (plus a second). Harden at 25 finished second for his first time. Doncic has a high of 3rd so far, and will not be eligible this season.

Doncic is (behind and) __a lot__ closer to Harden than to James.

Again, you've made your opinion clear. It is not shared by many basketball people.

"Many basketball people"???? Name the "basketball person" that would trade Luka straight up for Harden at the same age. I'll wait...

 

[UK Cowboy]

Dallas just traded 25 year-old Doncic for 32 year-old Davis and Max Christie and Laker first.

Get a hold of yourself, you are talking crazy.

Harden was top-3 in MVP voting in 5 of 6 consecutive seasons, and absolutely no one would have proposed that he could be acquired for Anthony Davis, a recent second-round pick, and a Laker first.

As noted previously, Harden pulled a comparable return to yesterday's trade when he was 23, and had started only a handful of games.

You are blathering complete nonsense, I'm afraid.

You're acting like Davis is a scrub. No one would trade a 31 year old AD for a 25 year old Harden dude. No one. They would trade PJ Washington for him LMAO

 

[tlance]

Dallas just traded 25 year-old Doncic for 32 year-old Davis and Max Christie and Laker first.

Get a hold of yourself, you are talking crazy.

Harden was top-3 in MVP voting in 5 of 6 consecutive seasons, and absolutely no one would have proposed that he could be acquired for Anthony Davis, a recent second-round pick, and a Laker first.

As noted previously, Harden pulled a comparable return to yesterday's trade when he was 23, and had started only a handful of games.

You are blathering complete nonsense, I'm afraid.

Are you talking about when AD was in New Orleans and Harden was in Houston?

The peak for both players?

Not saying that Houston would have traded Harden for Davis because they were contending and he was what they needed to stir the drink.

But AD surely had more trade value than Harden at that moment in time assuming the acquiring team was able to resign him. He was younger and a burgeoning 2 way superstar.

Boston was ready to gut their entire core to get AD until he said he wanted Lakers.

Both AD and Harden were high level MVP candidates. But AD was younger and on a lesser contract.

And yes, that matters. A lot.

AD was absolutely the most valuable trade asset in the league at that time before the trade demands.

Not anymore.

 

[tc1]

Back when Jerry West was at the helm you might have had an argument.

And Mitch Kupchak. And Lou Mohs. And John Kundla. And Fred Schaus. And Pete Newell. And Bill Sharman.

Aw hell, it's almost like it's systemic!

He isn’t anymore.

And the current regime doesn’t get to take credit from success of the past.

When did I say they could? I said the Lakers are "the Lakers" -- that's explicitly a reference to the franchise.

That said, the Buss family has owned the franchise for 46 years now, and they do get credit for a lot of that history -- even though this generation are largely screw-ups, they are still "the regime".

 

[tc1]

You're acting like Davis is a scrub. No one would trade a 31 year old AD for a 25 year old Harden dude. No one. They would trade PJ Washington for him LMAO

Okay, I thought you were being serious. Never mind, I will stop wasting my time on you now.