Is Luka for AD the most shocking trade of all time

[Wamu]

I was talking about their stars not player like Fisher, and in my lifetime. Off the top of my head my list is:

Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Kobe
AD
LeBron
Luka

When was the last time they drafted one of their actual stars? Worthy 58 years ago?

Here are three of my all time favorite Lakers.

Nick 'one-two-three Cancun' Van Exel (excellent leadership qualities)

Mark 'maddog' Madsen (one of the whites NBAers of all time, if you don't believe me look up his championship parade dance celebration)

Nick 'Swappy P' Young (hit clutchness is unmatched)

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Best explanation I can come up with is that ICE came sniffing around and they needed to get Luka to a sanctuary state.

 

[tc1]

Harden has one Finals appearance in his career despite being on the most talented team 5-6 times. He is not what Luka is

We'll see. But Doncic will need to finish in the top 2 in MVP voting every remaining season in this twenties just to match Harden there.

In other words, you have your opinion about who these players are, but that's not shared by everyone.

I seriously doubt your claim about most-talented teams, as well, but that's a matter of opinion that I do not care to debate. Also, just checking, but didn't Doncic miss the playoff entirely two years ago?

 

[jontaejones]

Garnett and Kahwi, in my history are the only ones in contention, but they asked for trades.

And there was a gradual nature to those.

And Garnett had 12 years of tread, and neither IMO are as good as Luka, though close

This is closer to Barry Sanders retiring

 

[tc1]

Okay I'll put it another way. Luka got his team to the Finals. How far has Harden ever gotten a team in the playoffs?

Losing game 7 of the conference finals to the champion, who swept the Finals. Which is pretty damn close to losing the Finals in 5.

He's been know to disappear in big moments.

Is that better or worse than Doncic laying an egg in last year's first round against the Clippers, and needing to be bailed out by Irving?

I think people are seeing a lot more difference than actually exists between these two players.

 

[UK Cowboy]

We'll see. But Doncic will need to finish in the top 2 in MVP voting every remaining season in this twenties just to match Harden there.

In other words, you have your opinion about who these players are, but that's not shared by everyone.

I seriously doubt your claim about most-talented teams, as well, but that's a matter of opinion that I do not care to debate. Also, just checking, but didn't Doncic miss the playoff entirely two years ago?

Every team that has ever had Harden would trade Harden plus picks and players for Luka. No team would ever trade Luka straight up for Harden. Case closed

 

[DJ Fieri]

We'll see. But Doncic will need to finish in the top 2 in MVP voting every remaining season in this twenties just to match Harden there.

In other words, you have your opinion about who these players are, but that's not shared by everyone.

I seriously doubt your claim about most-talented teams, as well, but that's a matter of opinion that I do not care to debate. Also, just checking, but didn't Doncic miss the playoff entirely two years ago?

Go look at Harden's postseason numbers. Harden disappears like a fucking ghost.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Every team that has ever had Harden would trade Harden plus picks and players for Luka. No team would ever trade Luka straight up for Harden. Case closed

Exactly.

 

[trojanfan12]

Davis was an elite defender and rim protector last year, too. That's an irrelevant point. How/why does Davis fit better with Irving than with James? Recall that the latter duo already won a title, and James is better in every way than Irving.

I didn't say AD fits better with Irving than Lebron. I said AD fits better with Kyrie that Luka does. We'll have to agree to disagree on Lebron at 40 being better in every way than Kyrie. He's still better in some ways, but not in others. It's much closer now.

Okay, but Christie was a Laker last year, and didn't help with the defense all that much. In fact, Christie struggled to stay in the rotation even though the Lakers were not deep with wings. In fact, none other than Spencer Dinwiddie largely kept Christie on the bench last year -- and he's in Dallas now. Christie has improved, but it remains to be seen if he's even going to play much for Dallas.

And? Christie was a 2nd year player last year and still learning. This year, there has been significant improvement as he has continued to work on and develop his game. That's why his minutes have jumped from 14.1 per game to 25.1.

If Dallas' coaches are smart...they'll find minutes for him.

Irving has never been much of a passer. He's never played a full season and averaged more assists than, say, Austin Reaves is right now ( or than Reaves did last year ). And is current average is well-under his career number, as one would expect for a 32 year-old.

Why do you think Irving will suddenly start becoming a great playmaker?

Actually, he's always been a very good passer, but he played alongside Lebron for most of his time in Cleveland and the offense ran hrough Lebron. In Dallas, he's been playing alongside Luka. He averages around 6 assists per game. For a score first guard who has played alongside 2 of the best playmakers ever...that's pretty good.

Which current average is "well-under" his career numbers? He's averaging 24.3 ppg against a career average of 23.6 and he's averaging 4.8 assists per game against 5.6 for his career. As I said, I expect his assist numbers will increase with Luke gone and AD to pass to.

James averages 4.3 more assists, to be precise -- almost double. Despite playing with Reaves and Russell, who both average more assists than Irving does. Doncic has not played most of the season, so he's not depressing Irving's statistics very much.

Lebron also runs the offense most of the time as he does on every team he plays for. Reaves career average for assists is 4.1, Kyries is 5.6 per game. This season, Lebron has shared the playmaking load with Reaves more than he ever has in his career which is why he has jumped to 6.1 this year.

 

[tlance]

Put it this way....Harden was traded once for Jarrett Allen and once for PJ Washington...and no one broke the net because they thought it was fake news. No one on earth could believe Luka was traded for Anthony Freaking Davis...and you want to tell me Luka is James Harden? OK fella lol

He is clearly better.

I think what broke the internet here was 2 things:

1st obviously that Luka was dealt at all.
2nd that he was dealt for another star player.

That just doesn’t ever happen.

 

[tc1]

Put it this way....Harden was traded once for Jarrett Allen and once for PJ Washington...and no one broke the net because they thought it was fake news. No one on earth could believe Luka was traded for Anthony Freaking Davis...and you want to tell me Luka is James Harden? OK fella lol

Harden was never traded straight up for either of those players, nor anything close to it, and you are seemingly referring to trades that occurred when Harden was in his mid-thirties. Let's see what Doncic's trade value is in ten years, after he's been cast in the reboot of The Whale.

It's embarrassing to you that I have to point out that Harden's career is nearly done, and Doncic's is not.

That said, Harden was also traded (with 2 throw-ins) for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 firsts and a second -- before he was even a starter in the league. That's arguably a similar return to what Doncic just pulled, based only on Harden's potential as a 23 year-old. If Houston had traded Harden at 25, the return would have been enormous.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Best explanation I can come up with is that ICE came sniffing around and they needed to get Luka to a sanctuary state.

Nah, Luka is white. He’s safe.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think I agree with that, although I think they need Holmgren on the court, and he makes both Doncic and Davis look like AC Green.

They will definitely need him. Not sure about making AD look like AC Green (not that there's any shame in that), when they've met head to head, AD has pretty much bullied him.

That won't happen much longer though as Chet will add some muscle and AD is getting older.

 

[Wamu]

What AD should do is refuse to play for the Mavs and demand a trade to the Lakers.

 

[Wamu]

Losing game 7 of the conference finals to the champion, who swept the Finals. Which is pretty damn close to losing the Finals in 5.



(1)Is that better or worse than Doncic laying an egg in last year's first round against the Clippers, and needing to be bailed out by Irving?

I think people are seeing a lot more difference than actually exists between these two players.

For me it's Luka > Harden.

And the main reason is Harden's playoff failures with multiple teams and the fact that he's quit on more than one team.

1. You trying to say super stars don't have bad Finals games?

 

[trojanfan12]

I was talking about their stars not player like Fisher, and in my lifetime. Off the top of my head my list is:

Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Kobe
AD
LeBron
Luka

When was the last time they drafted one of their actual stars? Worthy 58 years ago?

They drafted Kobe...kinda. lol They got him in a draft day trade. They had already worked him out and Jerry West had decided they wanted him...so they made a deal with Charlotte (if memory serves) to draft him with the 13th pick and trade him to the Lakers.

 

[Old Lion]

It was the best kept secret in a very long time.

 

[Battlelyon]

There was no build up to this trade. Harrison called Rob, offered the trade, and Rob was aware enough to say yes. This came together VERY quickly.

Don't tell me LeBron wasn't a part of it

 

[tc1]

I didn't say AD fits better with Irving than Lebron. I said AD fits better with Kyrie that Luka does. We'll have to agree to disagree on Lebron at 40 being better in every way than Kyrie. He's still better in some ways, but not in others. It's much closer now.

There's no statistical support for Irving being even a match for James. You have to give Irving style points, or something.

And? Christie was a 2nd year player last year and still learning. This year, there has been significant improvement as he has continued to work on and develop his game. That's why his minutes have jumped from 14.1 per game to 25.1.

If Dallas' coaches are smart...they'll find minutes for him.

We'll see. I am very sad to see Christie traded, but the bottom line is that Dallas has several more-experienced and arguably-better wings.

Actually, he's always been a very good passer, but he played alongside Lebron for most of his time in Cleveland and the offense ran hrough Lebron. In Dallas, he's been playing alongside Luka. He averages around 6 assists per game. For a score first guard who has played alongside 2 of the best playmakers ever...that's pretty good.

No, Irving averages 4.8 assists per game this season. His career average is 5.6, Neither are impressive numbers for a point guard, which he has been for most of his career.

Neither James nor Doncic are among the best playmakers ever. Doncic averages 8.3 assists per game. James is at 7.4. Between them, they have led the league in assists precisely once, in 27 seasons. For context, players in that 8 apg ballpark are: Kevin Porter, Deron Williams, Stephon Marbury. To put it mildly, that's not the class of the NBA's playmakers.

And both of those numbers for Doncic and James are inflated compared to historical numbers, by the NBA's modern scoring methods ( ie, last person to touch the ball gets an assist ).

Which current average is "well-under" his career numbers? He's averaging 24.3 ppg against a career average of 23.6 and he's averaging 4.8 assists per game against 5.6 for his career. As I said, I expect his assist numbers will increase with Luke gone and AD to pass to.

Assists are down 16%. PER down 10%. And again, Doncic has barely played this season -- he is not depressing Irving's numbers, which are lower than last season's anyway.

Lebron also runs the offense most of the time as he does on every team he plays for. Reaves career average for assists is 4.1,
Kyries is 5.6 per game. This season, Lebron has shared the playmaking load with Reaves more than he ever has in his career which is why he has jumped to 6.1 this year.

Yeah, because James finally has better passers than Irving to play with.

And Irving's numbers have not gone up much when he has played away from James and Doncic -- save one season in Boston when he hit his career high of 6.9.

Just for a random comparison, Nick van Exel exceeded 6.9 six times in his career and matched it twice -- and I would not call NvE any kind of great playmaker.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Harden was never traded straight up for either of those players, nor anything close to it, and you are seemingly referring to trades that occurred when Harden was in his mid-thirties. Let's see what Doncic's trade value is in ten years, after he's been cast in the reboot of The Whale.

It's embarrassing to you that I have to point out that Harden's career is nearly done, and Doncic's is not.

That said, Harden was also traded (with 2 throw-ins) for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 firsts and a second -- before he was even a starter in the league. That's arguably a similar return to what Doncic just pulled, based only on Harden's potential as a 23 year-old. If Houston had traded Harden at 25, the return would have been enormous.

Ok lol, you will with Harden and I'll roll with Doncic and my team will beat the shit out of yours lol