Is Big Ben still elite?

[dbldwn711]

I know I will catch some flack on this, but I think Eli is a HOFer, too.

Tough to argue a 2 time SB MVP is NOT in the HOF.

 

[kburjr]

Tough to argue a 2 time SB MVP is NOT in the HOF.

Sometime in the next 2-3 weeks he goes over 50,000 passing yards. He hasn't missed a game in 13 years. I mean awesome durability. Stands at 202 consecutive starts right now.

 

[broncosmitty]

I guess it would depend on your definition of elite. Top 10%? top 20% if it's 10%, was Ben ever considered on of the top 3 QBs while he is playing? He played at a high level for a long time. Career-wise, yes HOF.

I considered him top 5 for a majority of it.

Honestly, I avoid the word Elite as much as the word surreal. Over used and I don't use them in conversation. (Maybe in terms of raw talent I do. Ryan Leaf was an elite talent.)

 

[Yo Tee]

I guess it would depend on your definition of elite. Top 10%? top 20% if it's 10%, was Ben ever considered on of the top 3 QBs while he is playing? He played at a high level for a long time. Career-wise, yes HOF.

I think you could say he was one of the top 3 towards the beginning of his career. 2004, 2005, 2008 were all elite years. 2014 was probably Ben's best year. Here is a thought that I had after the games last night.

Neither Ben, Eli, Rivers, Brady or Brees are playing their best football right now. What if they ALL retire at the end of the year? I can see Brady and Brees playing a little more which is crazy because they were in the league before Ben, Eli and Rivers. But right now, Ben doesn't look good, Eli is looking even worse than regular Eli and Rivers has just had a rough couple of years. 1 playoff appearance in the last 7 years. 4-12 two years ago, 5-11 last year and doesn't look good this year? But there is a pretty important era of football right there. Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning and Philip Rivers. All nearing the end, some sooner than others.

 

[broncosmitty]

I know I will catch some flack on this, but I think Eli is a HOFer, too.

Absolutely he is.


He won.


Joe Naimath is a HOFer. There's can't be another reason other than he won that one game he was an underdog in.

 

[Yo Tee]

I know I will catch some flack on this, but I think Eli is a HOFer, too.

It's really hard to say that Ben is a HoFer but Eli isn't. It's also hard to say Eli is a HoFer but Ben isn't. That's how close those two are in career stats and accomplishments.

 

[broncosmitty]

Fwiw, Romo was a better QB to me than Eli or Rivers.

 

[kburjr]

Fwiw, Romo was a better QB to me than Eli or Rivers.

When he wasn't hurt. Lost a lot of games to compile stats.

 

[broncosmitty]

When he wasn't hurt. Lost a lot of games to compile stats.

He had one losing season.

And he only played six games that year.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I think you could say he was one of the top 3 towards the beginning of his career. 2004, 2005, 2008 were all elite years. 2014 was probably Ben's best year. Here is a thought that I had after the games last night.

Neither Ben, Eli, Rivers, Brady or Brees are playing their best football right now. What if they ALL retire at the end of the year? I can see Brady and Brees playing a little more which is crazy because they were in the league before Ben, Eli and Rivers. But right now, Ben doesn't look good, Eli is looking even worse than regular Eli and Rivers has just had a rough couple of years. 1 playoff appearance in the last 7 years. 4-12 two years ago, 5-11 last year and doesn't look good this year? But there is a pretty important era of football right there. Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning and Philip Rivers. All nearing the end, some sooner than others.

I agree with a lot you said here.
Ben top 3 for 3 years, meh.
Brady not playing his best football right now? Not sure what you're using to quantify that? In almost every statistical category Brady is top 5 or better as a team they're struggling and Brady hasn't been able to save them. But overall TB is having as good a year as ever at age 40.

 

[JMR]

"No" but he's likely still got some really good football left in him. He's 35, and while that's not "young" it's also not really "old" for an NFL QB. He will never be able to run around and extend plays like he used to, but his physical ability to stand back in the pocket and throw the ball is probably as good as it needs to be to play well. For whatever reason it isn't happening now, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't.

 

[Yo Tee]

I agree with a lot you said here.
Ben top 3 for 3 years, meh.
Brady not playing his best football right now? Not sure what you're using to quantify that? In almost every statistical category Brady is top 5 or better as a team they're struggling and Brady hasn't been able to save them. But overall TB is having as good a year as ever at age 40.

I guess what I mean is the team itself isn't playing it's best football, not Tom Brady specifically. Ben and Eli aren't having the best years but they are both in the top 10 in the league in yards, TB, Eli and Drew Brees are having an exceptionally accurate year, Brady and Brees are in the top 5 for QBR but they all have something in common and it's that their team is not playing as good as they are. I just wonder if Brees, Brady and these other "old-timers" will just say, to hell with it, I've been successful and this team doesn't look like it's gonna be better next year, let me call it quits right now. Because the defense is letting Tom Brady down right now. The offense AND defense are really letting Eli and Ben down. Just seems like those 5 QBs (Eli, Ben, Rivers, Brees and Brady) are having trouble with their team, whether it's the offense, defense or both.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I guess what I mean is the team itself isn't playing it's best football, not Tom Brady specifically. Ben and Eli aren't having the best years but they are both in the top 10 in the league in yards, TB, Eli and Drew Brees are having an exceptionally accurate year, Brady and Brees are in the top 5 for QBR but they all have something in common and it's that their team is not playing as good as they are. I just wonder if Brees, Brady and these other "old-timers" will just say, to hell with it, I've been successful and this team doesn't look like it's gonna be better next year, let me call it quits right now. Because the defense is letting Tom Brady down right now. The offense AND defense are really letting Eli and Ben down. Just seems like those 5 QBs (Eli, Ben, Rivers, Brees and Brady) are having trouble with their team, whether it's the offense, defense or both.

It will be interesting to see what all these guys do?
As for this year NE and Pitt I think still have a good shot at turning it around. Too much offensive talent. NE has had bad Ds they've turned around before. Granted this group has been historically bad. But I think with this 10 day off period, combined with them looking slighlty better on Thursday BB and MP turn it around. I don't think they'll crack top 10 but 15 I could live with.

NYG they're done. 0-5 and a tough stretch ahead over the next month. They could easily be 0-8.
NO always finds a way to disappoint. That's too vad I like the Saints and the city of NO (Cajun food, Zydeco music).
LAC just have never been able to get over the hump.

 

[DHoey]

Elite to me means good enough to win a SB, so yeah, he's still elite.

 

[Ickey Shuffle]

He was always bad on the road ( except at the Bengals field ), but now he's bad at home too. Time to hang it up.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Elite to me means good enough to win a SB, so yeah, he's still elite.

Ok to each their own I guess? That's the problem with these arguments they're totally subjective.
So by your criteria Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, McMahon, Doug Williams are all elite?

 

[Gooch1034]

I agree. A very good QB through out his career in a sport that's difficult to find a franchise QB in. I reserve the term elite for those you'd put on Mount Rushmore like Johnny U, Montana, Manning... Big Ben is not in that class.

My take is it depends on if he is currently elite or has he had an elite career. Up until this season, Ben had a handful of elite years but I wouldn't say his career has been elite.

 

[DHoey]

Ok to each their own I guess? That's the problem with these arguments they're totally subjective.
So by your criteria Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, McMahon, Doug Williams are all elite?

Yeah sure, good job picking the exceptions.
There are two classes of QB's in my mind, those that can win and those that can't. I don't believe all the other bullshit tiers.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Yeah sure, good job picking the exceptions.
There are two classes of QB's in my mind, those that can win and those that can't. I don't believe all the other bullshit tiers.

Fair enough that's your opinion.
I listed a group that equates to 10% of the SBs played. I don't think anyone would argue this group is elite? There are others but then we'll really get subjective and get evryone's jimmies rustled. My point there is somewhere between 20-25% of the SBs won, have been by QBs who aren't elite IMO as well as a lot of others.