Im sorry Mussina isnt deserving of HOF.

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Ok, explain it to me then. I laid out what he could do. He isn't going to be Mussina, because he isn't that much of a workhorse, but that's mostly generational.

I'm not smart, but I'm not an idiot.

You don’t get that I’m not commenting on, or making any claims about, Greinke’s potential for a future HOF induction.

I’m simply saying that his career to date does not match up to Mussina’s, so the idea that he’s a shoo-in simply because Mussina was inducted is KC homer shit.

You keep quoting me and saying that Greinke could make the HOF. That’s great. I agree with you. He could also get hit by a bus tomorrow and not.

 

[The Q]

Sorry Q, there is a big difference between a conservative and a wing nut.

He is such a raving prick that he can't even hold a media job. Curt and his sock would have been fired 2 years earlier if he hadn't got cancer.

The man has no redeeming qualities outside of his athletic ability. He failed in gaming. He failed in media. He is a complete loon with his political views. He really is a giant piece of shit.

And if he was a liberal he’d be in by now

See how Lebrun gets away with complete political ignorance

 

[The Q]

Or Hollywood

 

[DragonfromTO]

Greinke

1. Justin Verlander (940.0)
2. Jimmy Key (938.7)
3. Felix Hernandez (926.1)
4. Roy Halladay (923.8) *
5. Dwight Gooden (923.1)
6. Cole Hamels (916.6)
7. David Cone (912.8)
8. Dave McNally (910.0)
9. Bret Saberhagen (908.6)
10. Roy Oswalt (906.6)

Mussina

Similar Pitchers

1. Andy Pettitte (912.9)
2. CC Sabathia (912.5)
3. Juan Marichal (866.0) *
4. Bartolo Colon (865.7)
5. David Wells (863.0)
6. Curt Schilling (860.2)
7. Tim Hudson (857.6)
8. Jim Palmer (855.6) *
9. Carl Hubbell (855.4) *
10. Kevin Brown (844.9)

Greinke > Mussina

At first glance I'd be inclined to say that Mussina's list looks better but really those lists aren't meant for this type of thing anyway.

I also suspect that Grienke's list will change and look more like Mussina's (with "better" pitchers who don't actually match him as well) if he throws a few more years anyway. The better a player's career is the harder it generally is to find a close match (I'm assuming you already know that the numbers are meant to show how "comparable" the player was).

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Greinke

1. Justin Verlander (940.0)
2. Jimmy Key (938.7)
3. Felix Hernandez (926.1)
4. Roy Halladay (923.8) *
5. Dwight Gooden (923.1)
6. Cole Hamels (916.6)
7. David Cone (912.8)
8. Dave McNally (910.0)
9. Bret Saberhagen (908.6)
10. Roy Oswalt (906.6)

Mussina

Similar Pitchers

1. Andy Pettitte (912.9)
2. CC Sabathia (912.5)
3. Juan Marichal (866.0) *
4. Bartolo Colon (865.7)
5. David Wells (863.0)
6. Curt Schilling (860.2)
7. Tim Hudson (857.6)
8. Jim Palmer (855.6) *
9. Carl Hubbell (855.4) *
10. Kevin Brown (844.9)

Greinke > Mussina

Comparables.

lolz

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

At first glance I'd be inclined to say that Mussina's list looks better but really those lists aren't meant for this type of thing anyway.

Of course they’re not, but when it’s all you have in your favor, you use it.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Is greinke a douche?

He’s a dork with anxiety issues.

I believe it's the latter.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Jeff Kent's HOF credentials are underrated in my opinion. He may not have hit the big career watermark that put Biggio in, but he was a more productive player. Consider their 162 game averages:
Biggio: 105 runs, 17 HR, 67 RBI, 24 steals .281/.363/.433/.796/112
Kent: 93 runs, 27 HTR, 107 RBI, 7 steals .290/.356/.500/.855/123

And Biggio only played 71% of his career games at 2nd base.
Kent played 88%.

I agree with you about Kent. Compare his career stats to Ryne Sandberg, inducted in 2005.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Lmao.........Its funny you said.....A half hr ago my 31 yr old son seen who the HOFerz were and asked me who is Mike Mussina was.....You hit it right on the head......
But there's no doubt he knew Mariano Rivera.....

Surprising he hadn't heard of Mike Mussina and he's 31, especially considering as recently as 2008, he pitched in NY.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Jeff Kent's HOF credentials are underrated in my opinion. He may not have hit the big career watermark that put Biggio in, but he was a more productive player. Consider their 162 game averages:
Biggio: 105 runs, 17 HR, 67 RBI, 24 steals .281/.363/.433/.796/112
Kent: 93 runs, 27 HTR, 107 RBI, 7 steals .290/.356/.500/.855/123

And Biggio only played 71% of his career games at 2nd base.
Kent played 88%.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Jeff Kent's HOF credentials are underrated in my opinion. He may not have hit the big career watermark that put Biggio in, but he was a more productive player. Consider their 162 game averages:
Biggio: 105 runs, 17 HR, 67 RBI, 24 steals .281/.363/.433/.796/112
Kent: 93 runs, 27 HTR, 107 RBI, 7 steals .290/.356/.500/.855/123

And Biggio only played 71% of his career games at 2nd base.
Kent played 88%.

While I agree that Kent probably deserves more discussion than he gets this particular point doesn't really help him from a straight value standpoint given that more than half of Biggio's defensive innings away from 2B were spent at catcher, a position for which the offensive standard is even lower than 2B.

 

[VikingFan2k2]

And if he was a liberal he’d be in by now

See how Lebrun gets away with complete political ignorance

Don't compare those two. Schilling is borderline as it is, regardless of political status. Lebron is top 2 all-time.

 

[The Q]

Don't compare those two. Schilling is borderline as it is, regardless of political status. Lebron is top 2 all-time.

The point is look at the past LeBron gets for saying incredibly stupid things. His slavery comment wasn’t even close to the first time

 

[VikingFan2k2]

The point is look at the past LeBron gets for saying incredibly stupid things. His slavery comment wasn’t even close to the first time

Peterson and Bell said that too. Stupid, off the cuff comment.

I don't think that is the same thing as Curt being a trumpeter for the right and he was ultimately fired over his commentary about transgender people.

Jemele Hill should have been fired about 5 times for her absurd public rants.

My point is, if Curt would stop saying stupid/bigoted things and just talk about baseball or not at all, he'd probably be in. The guy has said he's not in because of his politics and Smoltz is because of his politics. I don't think that is the case, I think that he's an outspoken, unapologetic asshole and Smoltz isn't.

 

[black francis]

*** > *

I assumed an * to verlander and Hernandez

 

[black francis]

I'm surprised Mussina isn't wearing an Orioles hate on his plaque. He has the lame no logo hat.

Greinke will do the same thing

He'd hate the thought of going in as a Royal

 

[black francis]

Those 3, JV, Hamels, MadBum, Felix.


Two great seasons from Greinke. He has longevity on his side, he could do it. But he's a dewsh, that won't help.

I don't that I'd call him a douche

He's weird as fuck, but also hilarious

"In 2007, the Kansas City Royals called up Alex Gordon. At the time, you might remember, Gordon was a serious phenom that year, in the same category as, say, Kris Bryant before this season began. In fact, I’m pretty sure Gordon was the first player in Baseball America history to be named minor league player of the year just one year after being named amateur player of the year.

In any case, Gordon came up to the most extreme expectations and he struggled. Man, did he struggle. Gordon has always had this detached nature which suggests he doesn’t feel pressure, and he carried himself quietly through the worst of it. But underneath it all, I think it was just too much for him. His swing even now has a hole in it — it’s something he simply has to overcome and it’s a daily struggle –and in those early days pitchers just ate him up. The poor guy was hitting .173 in early June, and he’d struck out 55 times in 53 games, and he was taking it out to the field, and even though he still carried himself in that placid and even-tempered way that now marks him as one of the better players in baseball, you could tell: He was seriously lost.

And then, at his low point, Zack Greinke came up to him.

“Alex,” he said, and he pointed to the video room. “Follow me. I want to show you something.”

Greinke’s teammates will tell you: The guy’s kind of a baseball savant. He is known for calling just how hard he will throw his curveball the next inning (“I’m going to try for 50 mph”). He sees things nobody else seems to see. Not too long ago, I was talking with Brandon McCarthy, who is one of the smartest guys in baseball himself, and he said that the coolest thing he can imagine doing is sitting next to Greinke during a game and just picking his mind, view the game through Zack’s eyes. Others have said the same. He will probably stay in baseball after he’s done.

So Gordon was pretty excited when Greinke called him into the video room. He figured that Greinke must have found something in his swing, something small, some little flaw that he could fix and it would turn his entire season around. He followed Greinke to to the monitor. Greinke turned it on.

The video was … yep: Zack Greinke hitting a home run. Greinke watched it lovingly and then turned back to Gordon.

“Do more of that,” Zack said"

 

[black francis]

You don’t get that I’m not commenting on, or making any claims about, Greinke’s potential for a future HOF induction.

I’m simply saying that his career to date does not match up to Mussina’s, so the idea that he’s a shoo-in simply because Mussina was inducted is KC homer shit.

You keep quoting me and saying that Greinke could make the HOF. That’s great. I agree with you. He could also get hit by a bus tomorrow and not.

Of course it's homerish

 

[broncosmitty]

I don't that I'd call him a douche

He's weird as fuck, but also hilarious

"In 2007, the Kansas City Royals called up Alex Gordon. At the time, you might remember, Gordon was a serious phenom that year, in the same category as, say, Kris Bryant before this season began. In fact, I’m pretty sure Gordon was the first player in Baseball America history to be named minor league player of the year just one year after being named amateur player of the year.

In any case, Gordon came up to the most extreme expectations and he struggled. Man, did he struggle. Gordon has always had this detached nature which suggests he doesn’t feel pressure, and he carried himself quietly through the worst of it. But underneath it all, I think it was just too much for him. His swing even now has a hole in it — it’s something he simply has to overcome and it’s a daily struggle –and in those early days pitchers just ate him up. The poor guy was hitting .173 in early June, and he’d struck out 55 times in 53 games, and he was taking it out to the field, and even though he still carried himself in that placid and even-tempered way that now marks him as one of the better players in baseball, you could tell: He was seriously lost.

And then, at his low point, Zack Greinke came up to him.

“Alex,” he said, and he pointed to the video room. “Follow me. I want to show you something.”

Greinke’s teammates will tell you: The guy’s kind of a baseball savant. He is known for calling just how hard he will throw his curveball the next inning (“I’m going to try for 50 mph”). He sees things nobody else seems to see. Not too long ago, I was talking with Brandon McCarthy, who is one of the smartest guys in baseball himself, and he said that the coolest thing he can imagine doing is sitting next to Greinke during a game and just picking his mind, view the game through Zack’s eyes. Others have said the same. He will probably stay in baseball after he’s done.

So Gordon was pretty excited when Greinke called him into the video room. He figured that Greinke must have found something in his swing, something small, some little flaw that he could fix and it would turn his entire season around. He followed Greinke to to the monitor. Greinke turned it on.

The video was … yep: Zack Greinke hitting a home run. Greinke watched it lovingly and then turned back to Gordon.

“Do more of that,” Zack said"

That seems like something a dewsh would do imo.


Prolly why Gordon lost the confidence to man third base.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I assumed an * to verlander and Hernandez

I love Felix but I also think he's still got work to do and it's not looking good right now for him and his future value. Verlander probably isn't "in" yet either but he's still productive and I can agree that he probably will be when he's done.