I'm getting excited

[BOSS429Mustang]

Problem is Jacob, we've been hearing nothing but excuses for Bradford since he was drafted. It's always the old refrain, "What until......(fill in your pet excuse here) I'm not interested in starting another debate on Bradford here. We'll just see how this plays out this year. You have your opinion on this and I have mine. The board seems to be about split on Bradford at this point. I'd like nothing better than to say that I was wrong about Bradford, but honestly don't think I'll have the opportunity. Fact is, if you'd have taken another elite QB such as Rogers, Brady, or Brees, and put them on the Rams, they would have had far more success than Bradford ever dreamed of. And before you say I can't compare Bradford to these guys I'll ask why not, he gets paid the same kind of elite $$$ doesn't he? If I pay that kind of $$$ I expect the same kind of proportionate performance. With all the improvements we've made it's almost a no-brainer that Bradford has to improve....at least statistically. But he just doesn't have the mentality to be a leader or elevate the talent around him. It's simply not part of his mental makeup, so no matter how much talent you put around him, he's always going to have critical limitations.


You'll already owe me ribs when Clowney impresses. What bet do you want to make on Bradford? I say he doesn't finish in the top 8 QBs in the league, even though he is being paid like one.

 

[Vitamike]

Problem is Jacob, we've been hearing nothing but excuses for Bradford since he was drafted. It's always the old refrain, "What until......(fill in your pet excuse here) I'm not interested in starting another debate on Bradford here. We'll just see how this plays out this year. You have your opinion on this and I have mine. The board seems to be about split on Bradford at this point. I'd like nothing better than to say that I was wrong about Bradford, but honestly don't think I'll have the opportunity. Fact is, if you'd have taken another elite QB such as Rogers, Brady, or Brees, and put them on the Rams, they would have had far more success than Bradford ever dreamed of. And before you say I can't compare Bradford to these guys I'll ask why not, he gets paid the same kind of elite $$$ doesn't he? If I pay that kind of $$$ I expect the same kind of proportionate performance. With all the improvements we've made it's almost a no-brainer that Bradford has to improve....at least statistically. But he just doesn't have the mentality to be a leader or elevate the talent around him. It's simply not part of his mental makeup, so no matter how much talent you put around him, he's always going to have critical limitations.


You'll already owe me ribs when Clowney impresses. What bet do you want to make on Bradford? I say he doesn't finish in the top 8 QBs in the league, even though he is being paid like one.

I understand what you are saying but it just doesn't work like that BOSS. Sam was just lucky enough to be the last 1st round pick prior to the CBA rookie salary cap. In other words what kind of money would Cam Newton, Andrew Luck or even RGIII be making had the old CBA still been in place?

One thing, we wouldn't just be comparing Sam to the top QB's in the league based on salary alone.

Heck who knows, EJ Manuel could be making Bradford money save the rookie cap of 2011 CBA

 

[bluepigpen]

Unfortunely we got Bradford in that last year. I hope he has a good year ahead and with the added running game, the pressure should elevate his completion stats and Rams wins.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

He was the 1st pick in the draft for crying out loud! I expect the very first pick in the draft to perform like the best player in the draft....isn't that why he was selected? The $$$ is just a badge reaffirming that.


Yada, yada, yada. He hasn't had the tools to succeed. OK, it gets old. Remember Archie Manning? Surrounded by some of the worst teams year in and year out with New Orleans. But he still showed that he was a great QB. I ask you, why can't we expect to see that out of wennie boy? If he has a somewhat decent year even by default I'm sure he'll resign for some ridiculous amount of money because the Rams braintrust (Brain farts) think he's just wonderful, while the rest of the league is not of the same opinion.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

I agree with you Blue. But if that happens it will be more a product of the team around him than his particular ability. He's already shown up to this point that he is NOT capable of elevating players around him like some lower drafted QBs who are not being paid #1 pick in the draft (whenever or whatever the salary cap is) money like Bradford is.

 

[jacobarch]

Problem is Jacob, we've been hearing nothing but excuses for Bradford since he was drafted. It's always the old refrain, "What until......(fill in your pet excuse here) I'm not interested in starting another debate on Bradford here. We'll just see how this plays out this year. You have your opinion on this and I have mine. The board seems to be about split on Bradford at this point. I'd like nothing better than to say that I was wrong about Bradford, but honestly don't think I'll have the opportunity. Fact is, if you'd have taken another elite QB such as Rogers, Brady, or Brees, and put them on the Rams, they would have had far more success than Bradford ever dreamed of. And before you say I can't compare Bradford to these guys I'll ask why not, he gets paid the same kind of elite $$$ doesn't he? If I pay that kind of $$$ I expect the same kind of proportionate performance. With all the improvements we've made it's almost a no-brainer that Bradford has to improve....at least statistically. But he just doesn't have the mentality to be a leader or elevate the talent around him. It's simply not part of his mental makeup, so no matter how much talent you put around him, he's always going to have critical limitations.


You'll already owe me ribs when Clowney impresses. What bet do you want to make on Bradford? I say he doesn't finish in the top 8 QBs in the league, even though he is being paid like one.

I also have to point out you're being a bit dramatic. No one was making excuses for him in his rookie year. Why? Because he had a great rookie season. He had a bad 2nd year, An ok 3rd year, and last year is a incomplete because he got injured. But he wasn't having a bad year by any means last year. If you think he was no Rams QB will ever meet your expectations. I don't think you can compare Brees, Brady's or Rodgers experiences with Bradfords. None of them took over one of the worst teams in NFL history. Your theory has holes in it. Rodgers took over for one of the best QB's in nfl history and sat the bench learning the system for a couple of years. Brady had one of the best coaches in NFL history (hate to say that) and took over when Bletso (sp?) went down. He was also a pretty good QB. Brees started with one of the QB coaches and OC coords in the NFL. Who's to say the Rams wouldn't of ruined any of those QBs. To me you're basically saying that QB's either suck or they don't and it has nothing to do with coaching or the situation they're put in. To me, thats freakin crazy. I think Coaching makes up 50% of a players ability to 'make a difference'.


Tell you what I'll make this bet with you........If he doesn't break/smash Robert quinns numbers in his first and 2nd year then we'll consider him a bust

Robert Quinn
2012 . 5.0 sack
2013 . 10.5 sacks
2014 . 19.0 sacks.

What Quinn was picked 15th in the draft?

So Clowney should have no problem getting 20 sacks combined his first 2 years being the best player to ever come out of college football. LOOOOOOOL. Sorry i can't help but laugh.

Let me know if you're down.

I'll make a bet that Bradford finishes top 10 in stats.

 

[Vitamike]

He was the 1st pick in the draft for crying out loud! I expect the very first pick in the draft to perform like the best player in the draft....isn't that why he was selected? The $$$ is just a badge reaffirming that.


Yada, yada, yada. He hasn't had the tools to succeed. OK, it gets old. Remember Archie Manning? Surrounded by some of the worst teams year in and year out with New Orleans. But he still showed that he was a great QB. I ask you, why can't we expect to see that out of wennie boy? If he has a somewhat decent year even by default I'm sure he'll resign for some ridiculous amount of money because the Rams braintrust (Brain farts) think he's just wonderful, while the rest of the league is not of the same opinion.

Yes I remember Archie Manning and you've brought this comparison up before touting Manning's 2 Pro Bowls & Sam's lack there of but failed to mention Archie earned those in his 7th and 8th years in the league.

I find it interesting you bring up Manning because I believe you would have thrown in the towel on Arch too and since you want to compare the two lets take a look at their first 50 or so games since Sam and Archie were both picked No. 1 & No. 2 overall respectively.

Games - Games started
Sam 49 - 49
Arch 50 - 48

Completions - Attempts - Percent
Sam 1032 - 1760 - 58.6
Arch 590 - 1153 - 50.9

Yards - TD's - Int's - Int percent
Sam 11,065 - 59 - 38 - 2.2
Arch 7,016 - 40 - 58 - 4

Long avg - y/attempt - y/game
Sam 80 - 6.3 - 120 - 226
Arch 68 - 6.1 -137 - 138

Sacked / 4 qcb / QBR
Sam 120 / 5 / 79.3
Arch 137 / 6 / 59.93

Look I understand you just don't like Sam and I do but liking him has little to do with the job he does at QB. I'm like everyone else here, this is his make or break year. We all understand this but to bring up salary with out context or content to his peer and then compare him to an NFL great without regard to relative or comparable stats are not strong takes to say the least.

 

[Vitamike]

Yes I remember Archie Manning and you've brought this comparison up before touting Manning's 2 Pro Bowls & Sam's lack there of but failed to mention Archie earned those in his 7th and 8th years in the league.

I find it interesting you bring up Manning because I believe you would have thrown in the towel on Arch too and since you want to compare the two lets take a look at their first 50 or so games since Sam and Archie were both picked No. 1 & No. 2 overall respectively.

Games - Games started
Sam 49 - 49
Arch 50 - 48

Completions - Attempts - Percent
Sam 1032 - 1760 - 58.6
Arch 590 - 1153 - 50.9

Yards - TD's - Int's - Int percent
Sam 11,065 - 59 - 38 - 2.2
Arch 7,016 - 40 - 58 - 4

Long avg - y/attempt - y/game
Sam 80 - 6.3 - 120 - 226
Arch 68 - 6.1 -137 - 138

Sacked / 4 qcb / QBR
Sam 120 / 5 / 79.3
Arch 137 / 6 / 59.93

Look I understand you just don't like Sam and I do but liking him has little to do with the job he does at QB. I'm like everyone else here, this is his make or break year. We all understand this but to bring up salary with out context or content to his peer and then compare him to an NFL great without regard to relative or comparable stats are not strong takes to say the least.

Woops! Had the sacks mixed in here...

Long avg - y/attempt - y/game
Sam 80 - 6.3 - 226
Arch 68 - 6.1 - 138

 

[bluepigpen]

Boss, I agree if Bradford has a great year it may very well be the product of a better running game. I haven't been a huge Bradford supporter over the years (I wanted Suh) but I am also a Rams fan and he is the guy, at least for now. As Vita pointed out, stats say he was going to have a better year before he got hurt but we will never know if it would have come through in the end. I think Bradford will have a better year because the pressure will shift to the O-Line to open holes versus finding receiver every other 3rd down. A game manager is all I want Bradford to be, not Rodgers, Brees or Brady, hand the ball off, hit the short dump off and once in a while hit Austin or Britt on the homerun. If that happens the Rams will have a lot of success.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Have to compare apples to apples Vita. Archie played in a run dominated era where the passing game rules were nowhere as liberal as they are today. Bradford wouldn't even have survived the first season back in those days.


And I once again agree with you Blue. But I think we could get a game manager for a lot less money and dispense with Bradford's inflated salary and use it to better the rest of the team.


I fully expect Bradford to have his best season. Everything has been set up for him to do so. But I stand by my assessment that he is not a leader of men. He has the physical tools, but limited abilities mentally. A game manager---yes. A player that can put a team on his back and carry them to victory occasionally (which you would expect a 1st pick in the draft to be able to do)--NEVER. Never was, never will be, never if he had Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, and Vince Lombardi coaching him. Game manager--by all means. Game changer---NEVER.

 

[Vitamike]

Have to compare apples to apples Vita. Archie played in a run dominated era where the passing game rules were nowhere as liberal as they are today. Bradford wouldn't even have survived the first season back in those days.


And I once again agree with you Blue. But I think we could get a game manager for a lot less money and dispense with Bradford's inflated salary and use it to better the rest of the team.


I fully expect Bradford to have his best season. Everything has been set up for him to do so. But I stand by my assessment that he is not a leader of men. He has the physical tools, but limited abilities mentally. A game manager---yes. A player that can put a team on his back and carry them to victory occasionally (which you would expect a 1st pick in the draft to be able to do)--NEVER. Never was, never will be, never if he had Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, and Vince Lombardi coaching him. Game manager--by all means. Game changer---NEVER.

Wait first off you were the one who wanted to compare these two guys and now that it looks a bit sour you change your tune?

Besides, that's why I didn't just put up yards, attempts and TD's.

In a run dominated era it stands to reason Archie would have better numbers with his completion percentage, interceptions and QBR facing defense's of his era focused on the run.

So if you want to bring up Archie, we should consider Manning had 20 more interceptions in almost 600 less attempts then Sam when defenses today are focused on the pass.

There is no way, with your standards, you would have stood with Arch through his first 50 games yet here you are using him as the standard for good QB play on a bad team.

 

[jacobarch]

Vit, you know there's some people that just don't like you. No matter how nice you are to them or how much you try in life to be a good person. I get the feeling people do that with football players as well.

 

[Retroram52]

If the video I saw of Kenny Britt beating both of our starting CB's for not one but two deep TD's, there is a chance that Shottenheimer may finally have the deep threat we have all been looking for. And if the O-line develops like everyone is expecting, we may have a pretty good offense where Bradford is more than a game manager. Is he going to be the reincarnation of the GSOT? Hardly. We are much different team but could this be the reincarnation of Jim McMahon to Willie Gault? This remains to be witnessed but the possibility is there. Stay tuned on this one.

 

[Vitamike]

Vit, you know there's some people that just don't like you. No matter how nice you are to them or how much you try in life to be a good person. I get the feeling people do that with football players as well.

And usually the reason those folks just don't like you is jealousy....

Yep Sam's been overpaid respectively and most probably feel they are underpaid so it makes sense to me.

 

[Retroram52]

Actually the emotion you are looking for Vita is envy. Jealousy is a cousin but in this case its envy not jealousy. I thought you might like that picky little detail from the utimate post whore!!

 

[Vitamike]

Actually the emotion you are looking for Vita is envy. Jealousy is a cousin but in this case its envy not jealousy. I thought you might like that picky little detail from the utimate post whore!!

ACTUALLY, it's both.

It's jealousy, because these folks somehow think Sam has taken something they feel belongs to them whether it actually does or not.

Where I compared it to how they feel about their pay, you are right.

Either way, they don't like you because they feel inadequate.

 

[ozarkram]

Ouch!

 

[zeke2829]

ACTUALLY, it's both.

It's jealousy, because these folks somehow think Sam has taken something they feel belongs to them whether it actually does or not.

Where I compared it to how they feel about their pay, you are right.

Either way, they don't like you because they feel inadequate.

I find this comical, you are missing the boat completely.

Jealous??? I think the word you are looking for is "Expectation" or "Disappointed" in Sam Bradford. If I remember correctly he was selected #1 overall. Just like Peyton Manning and just like Andrew Luck. I think thats a fair compairison dont you?? How many playoff appearances do either of these 3 have?? Pro Bowls?? How long have they been in the league?? People have high expectations with high draft picks. We like to win or at least see some improvent/leadership. The only thing that I've seen improve is his paycheck. You mentioned his salary, sure its not Sams fault for becoming the highest paid rookie in the history of the NFL. For him thiis sounds like a good problem tp have. With all of that $$ can you honestly say that he is giving his all?? Its funny how all of the other NFL teams are cautious with the contracts they give their new qbs. The league and the players union both agreed that this isnt good for an organiztion after coming off a losing season. In fact it only hurts the team more than it helps. Especially if the player underperforms.

 

[Vitamike]

I find this comical, you are missing the boat completely.

Jealous??? I think the word you are looking for is "Expectation" or "Disappointed" in Sam Bradford. If I remember correctly he was selected #1 overall. Just like Peyton Manning and just like Andrew Luck. I think thats a fair compairison dont you?? How many playoff appearances do either of these 3 have?? Pro Bowls?? How long have they been in the league?? People have high expectations with high draft picks. We like to win or at least see some improvent/leadership. The only thing that I've seen improve is his paycheck. You mentioned his salary, sure its not Sams fault for becoming the highest paid rookie in the history of the NFL. For him thiis sounds like a good problem tp have. With all of that $$ can you honestly say that he is giving his all?? Its funny how all of the other NFL teams are cautious with the contracts they give their new qbs. The league and the players union both agreed that this isnt good for an organiztion after coming off a losing season. In fact it only hurts the team more than it helps. Especially if the player underperforms.

Zeke, unless this is self-indicting (And I strongly doubt it based on your comments here) those comments were not for ALL who dislike Sam, that is beyond comical, it's ridiculous!

It was in response to the convo between Jacobarch, Retroram and myself in regards to why "some people just don't like you or some football players...."

Vit, you know there's some people that just don't like you. No matter how nice you are to them or how much you try in life to be a good person. I get the feeling people do that with football players as well.

And usually the reason those folks just don't like you is jealousy....

Yep Sam's been overpaid respectively and most probably feel they are underpaid so it makes sense to me.

Actually the emotion you are looking for Vita is envy. Jealousy is a cousin but in this case its envy not jealousy. I thought you might like that picky little detail from the utimate post whore!!

I don't know anyone on these boards well enough to say this about a single poster here. That said, I'm sure there are some Rams fans who feel jealous or envious of Sam and just don't like him no matter what he does on the field. Most here have indicated they hope they are wrong about Sam's abilities to lead this team to successful seasons.

Also, there are other reasons people just don't like you as well. It could be where you went to college, the company you keep, or because they think you're a low life, a chump or stuck on yourself, etc...

 

[mikey728]

If the video I saw of Kenny Britt beating both of our starting CB's for not one but two deep TD's, there is a chance that Shottenheimer may finally have the deep threat we have all been looking for. And if the O-line develops like everyone is expecting, we may have a pretty good offense where Bradford is more than a game manager. Is he going to be the reincarnation of the GSOT? Hardly. We are much different team but could this be the reincarnation of Jim McMahon to Willie Gault? This remains to be witnessed but the possibility is there. Stay tuned on this one.

I'm going to comment only on your first point here, Retro...My question would be: Is that a reflection on Britt, or is it more likely the fact that our DBs are still be the achilles heel of this team ???