If we are being honest about it, DeVonta Smith is going to establish himself as the best WR in the league within the next 3 years.

[fightinfunbags]

Dude do you have aspergers or something? Its like you talk in the mirror. Everything I have I said is in reply to YOU being upset.

All I pointed out was JJ is better(he is). Very calmly. You said you value speed. I replied with yes Tyreke is faster but JJ is better at everything else.

Then YOU popped off about how stats dont matter(spoken like a dumbass who knows hes in over his head). It was YOU that then went after JV athletes(in a remark that didnt even make sense). It was YOU that then went after Minnesota sports in general.

All I have done is, reply to every idiotic thing you have said, by showing how..........idiotic it is.

FFbags "stats make me angry. Must smash. Logic. Grrrrrrr". Lets see what you got next caveman.

Why would an Eagles fan be mad over a comparison between two non Eagles? I’m not mad at all.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Why would an Eagles fan be mad over a comparison between two non Eagles? I’m not mad at all.

Because you apparently hate anything that isnt a pure misguided opinion. So you had to make irrational insults to JV athletes.

One last thing, on your continued delusion. Your initial post "I prefer Hill because he is faster". Hence the Williamson Carter comp.

If you are going to shift goal posts in the future at least preferece it with. "By using no stats whatsover I prefer the faster of two wide receivers but ONLY when both receivers are already in my opinion elite. I have to find them both elite."

You'll save a lot of time and effort just expanding on your incompetentce right off the bat. I coulda just read your first post and been "ok hes a casual. Carry on."

 

[ducky]

Because you apparently hate anything that isnt a pure misguided opinion. So you had to make irrational insults to JV athletes.

One last thing, on your continued delusion. Your initial post "I prefer Hill because he is faster". Hence the Williamson Carter comp.

If you are going to shift goal posts in the future at least preferece it with. "By using no stats whatsover I prefer the faster of two wide receivers but ONLY when both receivers are already in my opinion elite. I have to find them both elite."

You'll save a lot of time and effort just expanding on your incompetentce right off the bat. I coulda just read your first post and been "ok hes a casual. Carry on."

It is perfectly legitimate to prefer Hill over Jefferson.

The statistical difference between the two isnt significant enough over the last 3 years to say one hands down is better than the other without any question.

319 catches 4772 yards 25 TD's on 466 targets
311 catches 4147 yards 31 TD's on 452 targets.

That is extremely similar production. And I guarantee you that when you factor air yards into the equation (how far the QB threw the ball to the WR), it would easily account for the yardage difference.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

It is perfectly legitimate to prefer Hill over Jefferson.

The statistical difference between the two isnt significant enough over the last 3 years to say one hands down is better than the other without any question.

319 catches 4772 yards 25 TD's on 466 targets
311 catches 4147 yards 31 TD's on 452 targets.

That is extremely similar production. And I guarantee you that when you factor air yards into the equation (how far the QB threw the ball to the WR), it would easily account for the yardage difference

With KC it does. But thats not because of Mahomes arm strength. Thats how they used Tyreke in that offense. And JJ has always been better after the catch.

Also, JJ barely played his first two games of his career. Because Zimmer..

 

[Cincyfan78]

Actually, we can’t make it more apples to apples. That’s part of my point. There’s no assimilation of schedule. There’s no assimilation of QBs throwing them the ball. There’s no assimilation of scheme. There’s no assimilation of how the two run games impact the way the defense plays them. There’s no assimilation that considers the other receiving options around them.

If this were the case, then no two players could EVER be compared...this is a cheap cop out. There are things you can absolutely go back and look at to draw at least some similarities - nothing will ever be the same exactly. I used years 1-3 because you mentioned Hills age - so I went back to comp years 1-3. JJ put up better stats - as pointed out - his WORST year was still comp to Hill's best year when he had Mahomes throwing for 5,000 yards that year as opposed to Cousins. Going back to the original point, of GMs would choose JJ over Hill - the stats in years 1-3 speak for themselves - JJ has been far better in that scenario. Yet, there are more things we can compare to try and see who is doing more/less with what they've got around them:

QB: Hill had Alex Smith throwing for about 4K yards in his first 2 years (3500 his 1st year due to injury and Foles threw for 400+ so combined about 4K that year), and then Mahomes in year 3 threw for 5,000 yards.

JJ has Cousins who is throwing for about 4200 yards a year, and slightly on pace for more this year, so basically similar QB output in terms of yards/attempts, etc...in approaches that would most affect the WR production. Makes you wonder what JJ could do with a QB that throws for 5,000 yards, doesn't it?

Basically - JJ is doing a lot more with a slightly better Alex Smith clone at QB than Hill was able to do - his best year (to that point ) took a 5,000 yard passer in Mahomes to get his best stats.

Division play: The divisions are a near wash - year one was tougher in the AFCW with 3 teams with a winning record that year, but the other two had the usual 1-2 winning teams nothing outlandish.

Overall SOS: KC's SOS in 2016 was 12th, 2017 25th, and in 2018 (through week 14 as I couldn't find a final) 26th. Average SOS of 21 in those 3 years.

Minn SOS - 2020 - 19th, 2021 - 14th, 2022 - thus far 18th. Average SOS of 17 (thus far) in those 3 years

This isn't to knock Hill at all - but in general - JJ has been better within those 3 years - and the only year that comes closer is this year's Hill, which you can argue in a career year will only be what JJ ends up calling an "average" year (though, less data points since only 3 years in the league.

However Hill - is facing the #1 SOS w/Miami this year - so, if you wanted to argue that with the similarities in production this year - Hill has been better facing a tougher schedule - I don't think there's much room to argue against that point - again, I used years 1-3 because you mentioned his age, but also Hill has a larger data point with more years in the league - so you could try and bring the numbers closer together by pulling out Hill's best 3 years in the league, but then that would erroneously skew the numbers.

TLDR; All that being said, no matter which side of the argument you fall on, to say that there are just too many variables to make any kind of rational conclusion (be it this argument or another argument with other players) is a lazy stance, and a copout, IMO.

 

[PDay8810]

All that being said, no matter which side of the argument you fall on, to say that there are just too many variables to make any kind of rational conclusion (be it this argument or another argument with other players) is a lazy stance, and a copout, IMO.

he just wanted to throw out the JV soccer thing.
It's all good

 

[fightinfunbags]

If this were the case, then no two players could EVER be compared...this is a cheap cop out. There are things you can absolutely go back and look at to draw at least some similarities - nothing will ever be the same exactly. I used years 1-3 because you mentioned Hills age - so I went back to comp years 1-3. JJ put up better stats - as pointed out - his WORST year was still comp to Hill's best year when he had Mahomes throwing for 5,000 yards that year as opposed to Cousins. Going back to the original point, of GMs would choose JJ over Hill - the stats in years 1-3 speak for themselves - JJ has been far better in that scenario. Yet, there are more things we can compare to try and see who is doing more/less with what they've got around them:

QB: Hill had Alex Smith throwing for about 4K yards in his first 2 years (3500 his 1st year due to injury and Foles threw for 400+ so combined about 4K that year), and then Mahomes in year 3 threw for 5,000 yards.

JJ has Cousins who is throwing for about 4200 yards a year, and slightly on pace for more this year, so basically similar QB output in terms of yards/attempts, etc...in approaches that would most affect the WR production. Makes you wonder what JJ could do with a QB that throws for 5,000 yards, doesn't it?

Basically - JJ is doing a lot more with a slightly better Alex Smith clone at QB than Hill was able to do - his best year (to that point ) took a 5,000 yard passer in Mahomes to get his best stats.

Division play: The divisions are a near wash - year one was tougher in the AFCW with 3 teams with a winning record that year, but the other two had the usual 1-2 winning teams nothing outlandish.

Overall SOS: KC's SOS in 2016 was 12th, 2017 25th, and in 2018 (through week 14 as I couldn't find a final) 26th. Average SOS of 21 in those 3 years.

Minn SOS - 2020 - 19th, 2021 - 14th, 2022 - thus far 18th. Average SOS of 17 (thus far) in those 3 years

This isn't to knock Hill at all - but in general - JJ has been better within those 3 years - and the only year that comes closer is this year's Hill, which you can argue in a career year will only be what JJ ends up calling an "average" year (though, less data points since only 3 years in the league.

However Hill - is facing the #1 SOS w/Miami this year - so, if you wanted to argue that with the similarities in production this year - Hill has been better facing a tougher schedule - I don't think there's much room to argue against that point - again, I used years 1-3 because you mentioned his age, but also Hill has a larger data point with more years in the league - so you could try and bring the numbers closer together by pulling out Hill's best 3 years in the league, but then that would erroneously skew the numbers.

TLDR; All that being said, no matter which side of the argument you fall on, to say that there are just too many variables to make any kind of rational conclusion (be it this argument or another argument with other players) is a lazy stance, and a copout, IMO.

And that’s why this is all opinion at the end of the day. The major modern issue with this stuff is the fact that people have made data and statistical analysis a God that is infallible. It’s just one layer of the story. It has value but as a complimentary piece. It’s not the sole driver the way many people try and use it.

 

[PDay8810]

btw...the speed quickness combination is what makes Hill one of the top receivers in football

 

[Cincyfan78]

And that’s why this is all opinion at the end of the day. The major modern issue with this stuff is the fact that people have made data and statistical analysis a God that is infallible. It’s just one layer of the story. It has value but as a complimentary piece. It’s not the sole driver the way many people try and use it.

On this, we agree. Stats are great, but the only HELP to tell part of the story. They are not the be all, end all - and can easily be manipulated to skew one way, or another.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I’ll take Tyreek Hill personally but JJ is a great WR.

Spoken like a true Eagles fan.

Why would an Eagles fan be mad over a comparison between two non Eagles? I’m not mad at all.

Why? because your team fucked up royally by not taking Jefferson when you should have. If they did. There is no doubt you would be claiming Jefferson as the better WR. But the eagles didnt. So now under no circumstances, can you claim him as better.

I cant think of any WR I'd take over Jefferson right now.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Spoken like a true Eagles fan.

Why? because your team fucked up royally by not taking Jefferson when you should have. If they did. There is no doubt you would be claiming Jefferson as the better WR. But the eagles didnt. So now under no circumstances, can you claim him as better.

I cant think of any WR I'd take over Jefferson right now.

Howie absolutely fucked up. Has nothing to do with my opinion.

 

[jarntt]

Tyreek settles the debate on who the best WR is in the game today

 

[RememberTheKoy]

 

[Moab]

Is this your brand?

 

[PDay8810]

Is this your brand?

and he still was the 2nd best receiver last Saturday

 

[ducky]

Tyreek settles the debate on who the best WR is in the game today

Talking about a guy who thinks Tua is as good as Mahomes.

Hill is a great WR. But I wouldn't let him evaluate talent for my NFL team or baby sit my kids.

 

[PDay8810]

Hill is a great WR

which remains my point

I think we all know he's not a canidate for NFL Man of the Year

 

[Jordan23]

Actually, I wasn’t talking about QBs. I get it. Minnesota sports is a black hole and Jefferson is a point of pride. I’m really sorry that I have a different opinion. And stats absolutely can lie. Purely stats based sports arguments are so those kids who played JV soccer as seniors in high school can hang in sports conversations. Hill can do everything Jefferson can do…just a half second faster.

JJ can catch better than Hill. Hill is quick but I’ll take the guy who can get a jump ball too.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

JJ can catch better than Hill. Hill is quick but I’ll take the guy who can get a jump ball too.

Exactly. His whole argument is that Hill can do anything JJ can but also run a little faster.

But in reality, JJ himself can still run and can do the what the literal job of a receiver is better than Tyreke. Catch the ball when it hits you in the hands. And go up to get any ball.

 

[RememberTheKoy]