If 'Bronbron had played in the 80's...

[DJ Fieri]

For you guys since I'm here to help:

Yep, this is awesome | SportsHoopla.com Sports Forums

 

[wildturkey]

Yes. Double. Today's players average 13 feet tall and weigh 475 pounds.

Andrew Bynum was doing his best to get to 475 in his Philly stint. His hair alone weighed as much as Kevin McHale. So double the size applies!

 

[mysticO]

Congratulations. You got me by singling out the use of the word "couple". If only I said "few"

Reread your whole quote and rewatch the videos

Help defense had to be a hard double. You could not linger off your man more than a couple of feet. You couldn't totally abandon your man ala Andrew Bogut on Tony Allen in the WC Semis to just free roam the paint. All of that is illegal defense. Lebron passes a lot when he sees that stuff now because he's looks for the best basketball play. Rather than shoot with 2 or 3 guys flashing towards him, he'll find the open guy. He's not going to see those flashes under old rules. The more advantageous play would be for him to score. And since he's skilled enough to get his shot anyway he wants, that's why I think his scoring would actually go up.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Couldnt play any worse lol

 

[trojanfan12]

Andrew Bynum was doing his best to get to 475 in his Philly stint. His hair alone weighed as much as Kevin McHale. So double the size applies!

 

[wildturkey]

Reread your whole quote and rewatch the videos

Yeah, and? They hard double and throw bodies when Jordan gets to the paint. Lebron would see the same thing but he's one of the best of all time at finishing in the paint. He knows his strengths and that's one of them. He's either converting or drawing a foul. The difference today is he sees bodies out on the perimeter because that's how NBA defenses work now. They send bodies to string you along to the sidelines to kill pick and rolls. He passes when he sees that. But that kind of stuff didn't happen under the old rules. The old rules aren't as limiting as you think they are. If they were, how else would the pace of game and scoring be as high as it was throughout the 80s and early 90s? Those didn't drop until the mid 90s when A) They stopped calling a lot of fouls and let the game get too physical and B) Talent depletion caught up with them from heavy expansion

 

[mysticO]

Yeah, and? They hard double and throw bodies when Jordan gets to the paint. Lebron would see the same thing but he's one of the best of all time at finishing in the paint. He knows his strengths and that's one of them. He's either converting or drawing a foul. The difference today is he sees bodies out on the perimeter because that's how NBA defenses work now. They send bodies to string you along to the sidelines to kill pick and rolls. He passes when he sees that. But that kind of stuff didn't happen under the old rules. The old rules aren't as limiting as you think they are. If they were, how else would the pace of game and scoring be as high as it was throughout the 80s and early 90s? Those didn't drop until the mid 90s when A) They stopped calling a lot of fouls and let the game get too physical and B) Talent depletion caught up with them from heavy expansion

You state that Lebron would find it easier in the 80s/90s....his biggest advantage is his speed and size from perimeter and charging to the ring....but the lanes were more clogged then and there were Centres camping under the ring waiting for him...how does that make it easier for him?

The FG % were higher in the 80's and started to decline going late 90s because the offense started to go from post oriented to perimeter. Are you paying attention?

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

In my examination of scorers across time, a very common theme came up. Over time the game has “slowed down”. Back in 1974 when NBA first started keeping enough stats to track possessions, the average team had around 125 per game. Last season the NBA had simmered to only 105. That’s a lot of possessions that have disappeared in 40 years. The simple formula I’m using for possessions is

[Possessions] = [Field Goal Attempts] + 0.44 * [Free Throw Attempts] + [Turnovers]
The answer was a bit fun to look into.

Teams got more careful


The biggest change that’s happened across times is that teams have been turning the ball over much less. In the 70s the average team would turn the ball over 20+ times a game. That’s dropped to around 14 in recent history. Around 25% of the change in possessions can simply be chalked up to better ball handling!

Teams got more careful, part two!


From the mid-70s to the mid-80s teams just kept fouling. From it’s peak in 1987 though, teams have seen a pretty decent drop in fouling. A drop of around 8 free throw attempts a game has given teams about 4 possessions a game. It should be noted that teams have stayed pretty close to around 75% free throw shooting, so only the foul rate has had a real impact on possessions.

There is more to this article if anyone is interested.

 

[wildturkey]

You state that Lebron would find it easier in the 80s/90s....his biggest advantage is his speed and size from perimeter and charging to the ring....but the lanes were more clogged then and there were Centres camping under the ring waiting for him...how does that make it easier for him?

The FG % were higher in the 80's and started to decline going late 90s because the offense started to go from post oriented to perimeter. Are you paying attention?

What does FG% have to do with this and where did I mention it in that quote? I asked you if they defense was so limiting, why was pace and scoring so high? You're the one not paying attention (plus that change you're trying to convey didn't really talk hold until the 00s). And I already told you, its easier because he can get to the paint area easier for a player with his skillset. A handcheck isn't slowing him down. There aren't bodies away from the basket forcing him to pass. All those videos, they threw bodies at Jordan in the paint. He still scored. Lebron, when he gets to the paint, scores. He's one of the best at converting from there. What's there defensively isn't as domineering as you think. And it goes back to pace and scoring, if the lane is so clogged, how could the pace and scoring be so high if everything is jammed up? They certainly didn't shoot 3s.

And yeah, @HuskerCradle2Grave ,post the link. Looks interesting

 

[mysticO]

What does FG% have to do with this and where did I mention it in that quote? I asked you if they defense was so limiting, why was pace and scoring so high? You're the one not paying attention (plus that change you're trying to convey didn't really talk hold until the 00s). And I already told you, its easier because he can get to the paint area easier for a player with his skillset. A handcheck isn't slowing him down. There aren't bodies away from the basket forcing him to pass. All those videos, they threw bodies at Jordan in the paint. He still scored. Lebron, when he gets to the paint, scores. He's one of the best at converting from there. What's there defensively isn't as domineering as you think. And it goes back to pace and scoring, if the lane is so clogged, how could the pace and scoring be so high if everything is jammed up? They certainly didn't shoot 3s.

And yeah, @HuskerCradle2Grave ,post the link. Looks interesting

Why was pace and scoring high? Do i have to really spell it out? Games in those days were played on the post. A lot of possesions, is used to dump in the post and the big man do his work. That's why it's so clogged in the lane compared to today....it was not a permieter friendly league. Did you know roughly about 30% of the pts back then were scored by perimeter players? Today roughly about 70% of the pts are scored by the perimeter players? Does that paint enough of a big picture for you?

When an offense is generated at the perimeter...theres more passing around the perimeter to try and free up a perimeter player for a shot or for a drive. In the mid 90s to early 00's...more and more teams went to perimeter oriented offense, and with handchecking involved and without a defensive 3 seconds...the perimeter player had a tough time getting quality shots hence you see a massive drop in pace and fg%.

Makes sense?

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Depends.

If this is a time travel argument where you take Lebron as he is now and put him back in the 1980s he would dominate. Athletes get better with time.

However, if he grew up during that time, then he probably wouldn't be so impressive. He wouldn't be able to model his game after Magic Johnson & Michael Jordan, nor would he be able to benefit from modern sports science.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

I guess these time travel arguments just don't make much sense to me. Way too hypothetical. I think Lebron will be up there with Oscar Robertson & Magic Johnson, but Jordan will remain tGOAT.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

What does FG% have to do with this and where did I mention it in that quote? I asked you if they defense was so limiting, why was pace and scoring so high? You're the one not paying attention (plus that change you're trying to convey didn't really talk hold until the 00s). And I already told you, its easier because he can get to the paint area easier for a player with his skillset. A handcheck isn't slowing him down. There aren't bodies away from the basket forcing him to pass. All those videos, they threw bodies at Jordan in the paint. He still scored. Lebron, when he gets to the paint, scores. He's one of the best at converting from there. What's there defensively isn't as domineering as you think. And it goes back to pace and scoring, if the lane is so clogged, how could the pace and scoring be so high if everything is jammed up? They certainly didn't shoot 3s.

And yeah, @HuskerCradle2Grave ,post the link. Looks interesting

Here you go Wild. An interesting read. Whered All the Possessions Go? | The Wages of Wins Journal

 

[trojanfan12]

Depends.

If this is a time travel argument where you take Lebron as he is now and put him back in the 1980s he would dominate. Athletes get better with time.

However, if he grew up during that time, then he probably wouldn't be so impressive. He wouldn't be able to model his game after Magic Johnson & Michael Jordan, nor would he be able to benefit from modern sports science.

On the other hand:

Today's Lebron wouldn't be used to the how physical the game was back then. It would likely be a difficult adjustment for him. "No layups" was taken seriously back then and guys got clobbered in the paint.

Had Lebron grown up during that time, he would be used to the more physical style.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

On the other hand:

Today's Lebron wouldn't be used to the how physical the game was back then. It would likely be a difficult adjustment for him. "No layups" was taken seriously back then and guys got clobbered in the paint.

Had Lebron grown up during that time, he would be used to the more physical style.

Great, a paradox

 

[trojanfan12]

Great, a paradox

We may have to cross the streams.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

We may have to cross the streams.

 

[ducky]

Today's Lebron wouldn't be used to the how physical the game was back then. It would likely be a difficult adjustment for him. "No layups" was taken seriously back then and guys got clobbered in the paint.

Think of how impossible it is to stop James on his way to the basket. Now put him in an era where players idiotically were told to foul if a player got into the paint. James would have shattered the FT's attempts in a career.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Think of how impossible it is to stop James on his way to the basket. Now put him in an era where players idiotically were told to foul if a player got into the paint. James would have shattered the FT's attempts in a career.

You mean like Jordan did?

 

[trojanfan12]

Think of how impossible it is to stop James on his way to the basket. Now put him in an era where players idiotically were told to foul if a player got into the paint. James would have shattered the FT's attempts in a career.

Not necessarily. The reason for doing it was to stop guys from driving the lane. It doesn't matter how big and strong a guy is, it takes a toll. Today's Lebron (in Doobs time machine scenario) wouldn't be used to the contact.

Now, on the other hand, if he grew up in that era, he would be used to it and would hold up much better and would likely be putting up numbers very similar to what he does currently.