I'd rather have Tristan or Whiteside Poll

[TurnUpTheHeat]

14-12-4 > 8-9-1

Not to someone, but the logic of that certain someone is the reason he's been afraid to post here since Thursday.

 

[Robotech]

Not to someone, but the logic of that certain someone is the reason he's been afraid to post here since Thursday.

The Cavs are in serious need of some rim protection. The Warriors have outscored them in the paint handily in these first two games. If LeBron could, he probably would pick up Whiteside and drop Tristan right now.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Not to someone, but the logic of that certain someone is the reason he's been afraid to post here since Thursday.

Place your bets for the excuse for his absence!

 

[Black Adam]

Place your bets for the excuse for his absence!

considering as Turnup pointed out the guy's been M.I.A. since last Thursday i'm guessing the boy's cooking up a DOOZY...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Though the Heat ideally would prefer to re-sign Hassan Whiteside at something less than a max deal (but ultimately might need to offer that), a competing and respected NBA general manager explained to me recently why it would be short-sighted for Miami to risk losing him over a few million dollars a year, why it’s easy to justify a max deal for Whiteside (starting at a projected $21.6 million) and why he’s going to be offered that by multiple teams. The GM, who cannot be named because of NBA tampering rules, listed four reasons:

1) Where else, he said, are you going to find a player so skilled at deterring shots (Whiteside's blocked shots average was the league’s highest in 15 years), at rebounding (fourth in the league) and with a developing offensive game where he’s now seen as a player who could average between 15 to 18 points a game? There’s nobody else remotely like that in this free agent class, the GM said.

2) With the big spike in the cap assured to drive up salaries for most everybody, the GM said it’s pointless to offer only $19 million to start – and allow yourself to be outbid – “because that extra $3 million is not going to get you” anything close to an impact player. So just give him the $22 million, the GM said.

3) His annual raises will be offset by another big jump in the salary cap in 2017-18. The cap is projected to be $92 million next season, then rise again to $107 million in 2017-18. The cap is then expected to fluctuate between $105 million and $112 million in the following three seasons, though that could change if the players opt out of the deal after next season (widely expected to happen by the December 2016 deadline) and get an even bigger chunk of the revenue.

Under the current labor deal, Whiteside would be eligible for annual 7.5 percent raises in a four-year deal from the Heat, 4.5 percent from other teams.

4) Supply and demand. The GM said there are so few elite players in this class that Whiteside’s market will be even higher than it would be ordinarily, especially coupled with the fact that more than two-thirds of the teams can clear out $20 million or more in cap space.

Among free agents, Whiteside is the only impact center in the first half of his career. Al Horford, Al Jefferson, Pau Gasol, Joakim Noah and Dwight Howard will be 30 or older by the end of this calendar year. Whiteside will be 27.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Robin Lopez get 13 million when the cap was 70 million last summer. Next year the cap goes up the most it ever has in the history of the NBA....EVERYONE has to seriously re-evalaute what good contract "value" is.

wow i am smart

in febuary

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

wow i am smart

in febuary

If you say so (although only you share that opinion with yourself).

EVERYONE knew the cap was spiking.
EVERYONE knew that would lead to bigger contracts.

EVERYONE also told you that other teams could add players and the Cavs would not be able to which is exactly what is projected to happen.

THAT was the major downside we projected for the Cavs.

The saving grace, of course, is that the Cavs won.

They didn't win though because they overpaid, they won is spite of it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

If you say so (although only you share that opinion with yourself).

EVERYONE knew the cap was spiking.
EVERYONE knew that would lead to bigger contracts.

EVERYONE also told you that other teams could add players and the Cavs would not be able to which is exactly what is projected to happen.

THAT was the major downside we projected for the Cavs.

The saving grace, of course, is that the Cavs won.

They didn't win though because they overpaid, they won is spite of it.

i suppose you are not intelligent enough to see the advantage of tying up your players to long term deals and having the core of your team set BEFORE the cap explodes. doesnt surprise me.

 

[lebron23james]

i suppose you are not intelligent enough to see the advantage of tying up your players to long term deals and having the core of your team set BEFORE the cap explodes. doesnt surprise me.

Not only that we have plenty of tradable pieces if need be, plus we will get a few good mid level players that just want to join a championship team for cheap

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not only that we have plenty of tradable pieces if need be, plus we will get a few good mid level players that just want to join a championship team for cheap

suddenly shumpert at 10M and Frye at 7.5M dont seem like awful trade chips.

the discount stuff to join a championship team is kinda repulsed by the huge cap increase though. In a normal year - maybe only a handful of teams have cap room- and most of them suck- so a vet might willingly take a discount to go for a title....right now a lot of very good teams have cap room--- so many that the price is being driven up like crazy....its why i think its fairly unlikely any vets take sizable discounts to play for a winner a la david west last year.

 

[lebron23james]

suddenly shumpert at 10M and Frye at 7.5M dont seem like awful trade chips.

the discount stuff to join a championship team is kinda repulsed by the huge cap increase though. In a normal year - maybe only a handful of teams have cap room- and most of them suck- so a vet might willingly take a discount to go for a title....right now a lot of very good teams have cap room--- so many that the price is being driven up like crazy....its why i think its fairly unlikely any vets take sizable discounts to play for a winner a la david west last year.

Cavs are actually in a great spot. How many teams are going to overpay for a guy like Jokem Noah or some other scrub...and be stuck with a massive contract that nobody will want 2 years from now

You never know, Mo turned down 5 mill for a chance to get a ring, west turning down that much money had to hurt tho

 

[WiggyRuss]

Cavs are actually in a great spot. How many teams are going to overpay for a guy like Jokem Noah or some other scrub...and be stuck with a massive contract that nobody will want 2 years from now

yah....people are gonna be paying joakim noah and guys like bazemore and who knows what WAAAY more dollars than guys like Kyrie and TT are making- and Kyrie and TT have YEARS left on their deals.

If I were the Cavs I would try and lineup all the non core player contracts (everyone but LBJ, KI, TT and Love) to expire at the same exact time (not next year- but the year afteR) when the cap takes its last hike- and have room to add a big time guy at that point...maybe even next year if they can do some reshuffling.

 

[lebron23james]

yah....people are gonna be paying joakim noah and guys like bazemore and who knows what WAAAY more dollars than guys like Kyrie and TT are making- and Kyrie and TT have YEARS left on their deals.

If I were the Cavs I would try and lineup all the non core player contracts (everyone but LBJ, KI, TT and Love) to expire at the same exact time (not next year- but the year afteR) when the cap takes its last hike- and have room to add a big time guy at that point...maybe even next year if they can do some reshuffling.

Lebron may take a discount to bring on his friends in a year, look out for that

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Lebron may take a discount to bring on his friends in a year, look out for that

Do Gilbert any favors???

He wants to bankrupt him...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i suppose you are not intelligent enough to see the advantage of tying up your players to long term deals and having the core of your team set BEFORE the cap explodes. doesnt surprise me.

I'm not intelligent enough?

Maybe talk to Kevin Love or anyone that signed a contract last year..??

Seems like they all cost themselves a ton BUT that's business, that's the way it is.

Regardless of the economic lesson, James made sure that Tristan got paid 2x what ANY other owner would have paid him LAST year.
THAT will never change.

And trade Shump and Frye for whom?

Neither has expiring contracts, right??

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'm not intelligent enough?

Maybe talk to Kevin Love or anyone that signed a contract last year..??

Seems like they all cost themselves a ton BUT that's business, that's the way it is.

Regardless of the economic lesson, James made sure that Tristan got paid 2x what ANY other owner would have paid him LAST year.
THAT will never change.

And trade Shump and Frye for whom?

Neither has expiring contracts, right??

this just shows how little u understand what is going on. Expiring contracts are worth nothing now. Guys with longer contracts and cost certainty have much more value - for the most part anyway.

you gotta keep up. I am not sure you understand- or that many people really do- how all of this stuff comes together.

not to brag- but to brag- i read a ton about it- and understand the strategy, the cap, the exceptions, the trends, the outside influences better than anyone else on here by a pretty large margin. Citysushi has shown a decent understanding of it too i think--- Ducky as well---- I think Mecca gets it- but she doesnt really spend the time or effort to understand it on a higher level. Tlance once in a while--- Gordon can follow along well...

A year ago- when i am saying how revenue is going up a huge way- and you combine that with salary floors, only a certain amount of free agents, and huge cap increases- it TOTALLY changes the game. Its something the Celtics did not adequately plan for- all their cap space and draft picks - which tehy could have leveraged in a huge way 2-3 years ago- are worth maybe HALF of what they used to be.

 

[gordontrue]

Maybe talk to Kevin Love or anyone that signed a contract last year..??

Seems like they all cost themselves a ton BUT that's business, that's the way it is.

Yeah, but its the safer, conservative move. Some would say its the more financially responsible move.

Unless you're LeBron... there's no guarantee year-to-year that you are still going to command the max. Everyone is one injury away from seeing their earning potential go out the window.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

this just shows how little u understand what is going on. Expiring contracts are worth nothing now. Guys with longer contracts and cost certainty have much more value - for the most part anyway.

you gotta keep up. I am not sure you understand- or that many people really do- how all of this stuff comes together.

not to brag- but to brag- i read a ton about it- and understand the strategy, the cap, the exceptions, the trends, the outside influences better than anyone else on here by a pretty large margin. Citysushi has shown a decent understanding of it too i think--- Ducky as well---- I think Mecca gets it- but she doesnt really spend the time or effort to understand it on a higher level.

A year ago- when i am saying how revenue is going up a huge way- and you combine that with salary floors, only a certain amount of free agents, and huge cap increases- it TOTALLY changes the game. Its something the Celtics did not adequately plan for- all their cap space and draft picks - which tehy could have leveraged in a huge way 2-3 years ago- are worth maybe HALF of what they used to be.

I totally get that , previous, longer contracts, in general now are better, but I highly doubt there is much demand for either of those 2 players, therefore possibly the cap space could benefit a team willing to take them on if that was the case.

I'll say it again, it paid off greatly because the Cavs won and Tristan has favorable matchups against the Warriors which IS reason enough.

HOWEVER, if he was in pretty much any other situation, nobody would know who he is, and the contract would be a joke if you figure in luxury costs.

Does that make some of these new projected contracts any better?
Maybe , maybe not.
It's supply and demand and with the huge cap increase some teams can spend and still stay under the cap.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Yeah, but its the safer, conservative move. Some would say its the more financially responsible move.

Unless you're LeBron... there's no guarantee year-to-year that you are still going to command the max. Everyone is one injury away from seeing their earning potential go out the window.

EXACTLY.
That's why Wiggy should quit stating what was available last year to what is now available as a comparison.

The cap spiked a ton, therefore the salaries go along with it.

Teams spending more for players now is essence are paying the same % of cap space as last year in probably most cases...so it's a wash as far as building a team.

The point with the Cavs was and still is, despite the huge jump, they can't add without subtraction.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah, but its the safer, conservative move. Some would say its the more financially responsible move.

Unless you're LeBron... there's no guarantee year-to-year that you are still going to command the max. Everyone is one injury away from seeing their earning potential go out the window.

exactly.

certain guys- VERY FEW- can go year to year.

Love coming off a year where he had back concerns and had his shoulder ripped up? he took the 100 million! lol.