How bad does the Wiggins for Love trade look now?

[Sgt Brutus]

It really doesn't matter how he would fit in right now. The team went through two tough teams to get to the finals without love. If wiggins were on the team, he would be gaining very valuable experience playing in the finals with the best player in the NBA as a mentor. A few years down the road, Lebron might've been able to chase a few rings with wiggins and Irving as the center pieces and him as a veteran player on his last legs. If Love stays and starts to fit in, then the trade could be argued to be a good one, but if he leaves after this year or next year, it will definitely be a stinker for Cleveland.

A lot of assumptions. Actually all assumptions.

That sounds amazing in theory. But it's just that a theory. We won't know if this was a good trade or not for awhile but I agree it is looking like we shouldn't have made it.

But if it was made to get Lebron here I am okay with that. If we win the championship I am also okay with that. Yeah we didn't have Love the last two rounds but let's not diminish his role in the regular season. He's only been here 1 year. Wiggins is still young and unproven.

Let's give it some time before jumping to conclusions is all I am saying.

 

[ducky]

James signed before the Wiggins trade, so you can't factually say that.

There is a reason wiggins wasn't mentioned in the Lebron announcement penned himself when announcing his decision to return to Cleveland. There is a reason why Love was one of Lebron's first calls after announcing his decision.

The framework for the Love deal had already been worked out before Lebron had put pen to paper. The only reason for the wait was because of NBA cap rules would have restricted what the Cavs could have done after that point.

...

I'm a wolves fan. I love wiggins but people are VASTLY overrating where he is as a player now. He is still a negative player at this point in this league.

One other aspect people are forgetting is that if the cav's have wiggins, they almost certainly don't pull off the Knicks deal. And without that deal, they are not in the finals right now. Any way you dice it, the Cavs aren't in the finals right now without the love deal IMO.

Hell as a wolves fan I still wonder if we got the best deal. Wiggins looks like a future star but that is FAR from certain. It's possible the butler/mirotic deal might still turn out to be the better long term move.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

A lot of assumptions. Actually all assumptions.

That sounds amazing in theory. But it's just that a theory. We won't know if this was a good trade or not for awhile but I agree it is looking like we shouldn't have made it.

But if it was made to get Lebron here I am okay with that. If we win the championship I am also okay with that. Yeah we didn't have Love the last two rounds but let's not diminish his role in the regular season. He's only been here 1 year. Wiggins is still young and unproven.

Let's give it some time before jumping to conclusions is all I am saying.

Yeah, it's too soon to judge it, but that's why it's fun.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

There is a reason wiggins wasn't mentioned in the Lebron announcement penned himself when announcing his decision to return to Cleveland. There is a reason why Love was one of Lebron's first calls after announcing his decision.

The framework for the Love deal had already been worked out before Lebron had put pen to paper. The only reason for the wait was because of NBA cap rules would have restricted what the Cavs could have done after that point.

...

I'm a wolves fan. I love wiggins but people are VASTLY overrating where he is as a player now. He is still a negative player at this point in this league.

One other aspect people are forgetting is that if the cav's have wiggins, they almost certainly don't pull off the Knicks deal. And without that deal, they are not in the finals right now. Any way you dice it, the Cavs aren't in the finals right now without the love deal IMO.

Hell as a wolves fan I still wonder if we got the best deal. Wiggins looks like a future star but that is FAR from certain. It's possible the butler/mirotic deal might still turn out to be the better long term move.

I disagree. There really is no way of knowing. Yeah, they play the same position as wiggins, but they provide three point shooting that wiggins does not. Three and D guys are essential when playing Lebron ball. It's not like they gave up much, and I'm sure Lebron would've pushed for that trade irregardless.

 

[ducky]

They wouldn't have have done the Knicks deal.

With love, the Cavs were in the position where they were going for broke and were willing to add future salary because it doesn't effect what they can or can't do this upcoming season. Without love they would have had more flexibility this upcoming summer and wouldn't have been willing to risk that flexibility in all liklihood.

Hell even the Mosgov trade is far from certain to occur without love there.

The NBA is unlike any other sports league. Transactions don't happen in a vacuum. The type of contracts you have on the books is just as important in determining when to pull off trades and signings and determines what those moves look like just as much as the actual talent you are actually adding and subtracting influences it.

And the Knicks trade is the perfect example of that. Any team in the league could have benefitted on the floor from adding smith and shumpert. And because the Knicks were literally giving them away for nothing, any team could have got in on that action. But only one team in the league was willing to do it and it was because of the unique position they were in with love, Lebron and Irving all on the books.

And for anyone thinking love will leave Cleveland this offseason, don't hold your breath. The other thing that has already been agreed to that we just don't know about because it would be a violation of NBA rules is the likely wink-wink handshake deal that love has with the Cavs where he will opt-in on the fianal year of his contract this coming offseason.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

There is a reason wiggins wasn't mentioned in the Lebron announcement penned himself when announcing his decision to return to Cleveland. There is a reason why Love was one of Lebron's first calls after announcing his decision.

The framework for the Love deal had already been worked out before Lebron had put pen to paper. The only reason for the wait was because of NBA cap rules would have restricted what the Cavs could have done after that point.

...

I'm a wolves fan. I love wiggins but people are VASTLY overrating where he is as a player now. He is still a negative player at this point in this league.

One other aspect people are forgetting is that if the cav's have wiggins, they almost certainly don't pull off the Knicks deal. And without that deal, they are not in the finals right now. Any way you dice it, the Cavs aren't in the finals right now without the love deal IMO.

Hell as a wolves fan I still wonder if we got the best deal. Wiggins looks like a future star but that is FAR from certain. It's possible the butler/mirotic deal might still turn out to be the better long term move.

I agree the framework was in place.
Anyone with the smallest amount of common sense knew James wasn't goint there to play with a bunch of youth and show patience during a rebuild.

Still, though, the Wolves could have changed their mind at any time for whatever reason.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Advantage to Cleveland now. We still wait to access how the trade really should be evaluated

 

[purguy12]

Advantage to Cleveland now. We still wait to access how the trade really should be evaluated

This has to be a joke. Come on man stop being a Homer. Wiggins was ROTY and Love is hurt and might be 1 and done. Love is injury prone and Wiggins is Young. Its not even close right now. A future of Irving, Thompson, Wiggins and LBJ would be scary.

 

[hockey878]

Kind of hard to judge. Who knows what the "butterfly effect" would've been.

Mozgov, Shump and JR might not be here. Maybe TT would've played extra minutes and gotten a serious injury.

Its too tough to judge considering all the things that have happened this season.


But I'll say this. If I could have ONE of them on this team, today, it'd be wiggins and his rookie deal. But we don't know that this is the team the cavs would have. In fact, i can almost guarantee they wouldn't.

Rolling out a small ball lineup of Irving, Shump, Wiggins, LBJ and TT would be so good defensively and offensively. One can only dream.

End of the day, I don't think you can blame the cavs for doing it

 

[Nosferatu]

I love the trade... STILL

 

[Turbo]

It really comes down to if Love stays or leaves in the summer. He obviously wont be able to contribute in the Finals.
But to say its a bad trade for the Cavs right now, would be a mixture of both yes and no. Love did contribute during the regular season to allow the Cavs to earn the #2 seed. Would a Big 3 of LeBron/Wiggins/Irving have got to a #2 seed or higher? We won't ever know the answer. Yes, the obvious is he didn't really mesh well with LeBron and Irving. There is still plenty of pieces to stick together to solve this puzzle. Will the Cavs WIN or LOSE in the Finals? Will THAT be the final component as to whether or not Love leaves or stays?

In regards to Wiggins, its way too early to grade this trade. will he even stay with MIN beyond his rookie contract? or will he shine with Towns/Okafor for several years to come and break all of KG's team records? maybe, maybe not. Even with all the team records, will MIN even make the playoffs, yet win championships?

The grade on this trade wont be determined for either team for many more years to come.

 

[Shanemansj13]

This has to be a joke. Come on man stop being a Homer. Wiggins was ROTY and Love is hurt and might be 1 and done. Love is injury prone and Wiggins is Young. Its not even close right now. A future of Irving, Thompson, Wiggins and LBJ would be scary.

Love avg'd 26 and like 15 on that shitty team you cant be serious

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I still like the trade. You can't expect LeBron to be dominant past year 15 or so. Cleveland had to take steps to win in the short-term, and Love gave that to them before his injury. All you need to do is check his +/- and then check the Cavs' +/- without him. Thompson has been great, but Love would have brought them closer to a title (I expect GS beats them in 5 or 6).

Cleveland had to sell out for a win in the next 2-3 years, and Love gave them a better chance to win for the next 2-3 years. Minnesota had to rebuild, and Wiggins gave them a chance to do that for the long-term. Good deal for both of them.

Umm if you can't expect LeBron to be dominant after year 15

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a phenom paired with Irving to help?

Not a whiny loser who doesnt play defense?

The wolves made out like bandits. I said it last summer and it looks worse now. Cavs flow so much better without doofus and Thompson instead. Add wiggins? O my.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Cavs would have been such a great defensive team had Wiggins stayed. I think Lebron envisioned the Cavs being a showtime type of squad running up and down scoring 100 +. But right now the lineup without Love has been the key to their trip to the finals. Defense, hustle, and rebounding. Imagine adding a wing defender like Wiggins who could develop into a lock down type of defender. Once Lebron reaches his decline, Wiggins and Irving would have been more than enough to carry the torch.

But looks like the Cavs blew that. They got too greedy and tried to go all in this year. Threw away what could have been a decade long 1-2 punch of Irving and Wiggins.

 

[Smart]

Umm if you can't expect LeBron to be dominant after year 15

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a phenom paired with Irving to help?

Not a whiny loser who doesnt play defense?

The wolves made out like bandits. I said it last summer and it looks worse now. Cavs flow so much better without doofus and Thompson instead. Add wiggins? O my.

It comes down to the issue of whether you think Wiggins+Irving would be that competitive for a title in their careers. For all the Wiggins talk, he is still a below-average offense player on every advanced metric. His team still had the worst record in the league. I'm not getting Wiggins as a "phenom." And I think Wiggins is much more likely to develop in Minnesota where a team is being built around him, than he would in Cleveland.

If you think Wiggins+Irving makes them a title contender in six years, maybe. I just don't see it. That core might win 45-50 games in 6 years. Cleveland doesn't care about bring average in eight years. They want to win titles. Kevin Love (with his 8.7 Win Shares this year; 10.6 last) makes them more competitive for a title than Andrew Wiggins (2.1 Win Shares).

 

[mr.hockey4242]

It comes down to the issue of whether you think Wiggins+Irving would be that competitive for a title in their careers. For all the Wiggins talk, he is still a below-average offense player on every advanced metric. His team still had the worst record in the league. I'm not getting Wiggins as a "phenom." And I think Wiggins is much more likely to develop in Minnesota where a team is being built around him, than he would in Cleveland.

If you think Wiggins+Irving makes them a title contender in six years, maybe. I just don't see it. That core might win 45-50 games in 6 years. Cleveland doesn't care about bring average in eight years. They want to win titles. Kevin Love (with his 8.7 Win Shares this year; 10.6 last) makes them more competitive for a title than Andrew Wiggins (2.1 Win Shares).

Not on that current roster he doesn't. People have seen LeBron for years they know in the weak East what he can do. To win a title he needs a a sidekick. That would be Kyrie. What did those Heat teams do well? They played small ball and defended. Love cannot do that, he just can't play D. Bosh had to compromise so much for Wade and LBJ. That was going to be Loves role.

Love was never a fit. Now Wiggins. That would give them a gifted scorer on the wing to grow and develop. It was obvious that Love wouldn't fit it. People completely underestimated what Bosh especially and even Wade had to do to make things worse.

Wiggins/Irving wouldn't be the only thing to make them a contender. There is still LeBron. So down the line you have a phenom(yes that's basically what Wiggins is), another yearly All Star and the best player ever. That gives you the win now and later.

You can't use Minnys record to justify this lol. Martin, Pek and Rubio were all out for months. Look at first 10 or so games(before wiggins even went off) they were competing with everyone.

 

[purguy12]

Love avg'd 26 and like 15 on that shitty team you cant be serious

I thought you were better then this but found out u have no clue about basketball and you really are a homer. Pointless to discuss anything with you. its not even close how this trade looks right now.

As of right now trade for Cavs is a D, C- as best.

 

[Logicallylethal]

It comes down to the issue of whether you think Wiggins+Irving would be that competitive for a title in their careers. For all the Wiggins talk, he is still a below-average offense player on every advanced metric. His team still had the worst record in the league. I'm not getting Wiggins as a "phenom." And I think Wiggins is much more likely to develop in Minnesota where a team is being built around him, than he would in Cleveland.

If you think Wiggins+Irving makes them a title contender in six years, maybe. I just don't see it. That core might win 45-50 games in 6 years. Cleveland doesn't care about bring average in eight years. They want to win titles. Kevin Love (with his 8.7 Win Shares this year; 10.6 last) makes them more competitive for a title than Andrew Wiggins (2.1 Win Shares).

And the T-Wolves were a bottom barrel team every year Love was with them as well. I don't think Minnesota's success or lack thereof is a good indication of Wiggins potential moving forward

He is a two way player and that is the type of player you can build around especially if you already have prolific scoring from Kyrie. Add in a veteran Lebron who is still very good with the right role players around them (Shump, Mosgov, Tristan, Jr, etc.) and you'll have a combination of great perimeter defense, good enough rim protecting, great rebounding, and enough shooters to spread the floor.

The key is the defense. Although you could say the Cavs path to the finals was aided by the East being weaker than its ever been...they still had to overcome a lot and they did it mainly with defense. Add Wiggins to that mix who could one day become a lock down defender with his length and athleticism...that's a scary defense.

Lebron, Shump, Wiggins, and Jr Smith are all good to great wing defenders. Mosgov, Tristan, and Verajao provides the hustle and rebounding.

Cavs went for the immediate splash instead of building a real core that could have been in contention for a decade or more.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

it looks like the Cavs didn't even need Love to get to the finals. They would also have a player that could be top 5 in the NBA some day gaining valuable experience in the finals and playing next to Lebron. Instead they have a possible rental who wasn't even necessary to get to the finals. I think it could go down as one of the worst trades ever.

Personally I think if the Cavaliers were looking down the road to even two years from now, yes keeping Wiggins would have been the man to keep. The situation for Cleveland, however was to produce a team this year that goes straight to the finals in 2015 and getting an experienced veteran like Love made that possibility better than an unknown rookie with zero experience in the NBA. It is unfortunate that Love went down but so did Kareem and it was the rookie Magic Johnson that carried the Lakers to a title. You can't predict the future

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Personally I think if the Cavaliers were looking down the road to even two years from now, yes keeping Wiggins would have been the man to keep. The situation for Cleveland, however was to produce a team this year that goes straight to the finals in 2015 and getting an experienced veteran like Love made that possibility better than an unknown rookie with zero experience in the NBA. It is unfortunate that Love went down but so did Kareem and it was the rookie Magic Johnson that carried the Lakers to a title. You can't predict the future

Yeah, I agree with the idea behind it, but this just isn't some rookie. This is a rookie that had had been hyped since before his first college game. They were saying this was going to be the best draft since Lebron and that wiggins was the Lebron of this class. This just isn't some prospect. This is probably the best wing prospect since Lebron. Even KD wasn't as hyped as wiggins was. And they traded him for Kevin Love who hasn't been able to get his teams to the playoffs and can't play defense any better than Carlos boozer. He will never be even close to an average defender.