Horrible SS contracts of past and present collide - NYY @ TEX 7/27-7/30

[WilltheThrill]

Pretty much. Give me the proven MLB talent over a "prospect" any day. I realize scouting is better these days, but you never know what can happen between MiLB and the Bigs. Look at Smoak. Look at Profar. Look at Feliz. Robbie Erlin. MIKE OLT. Cody Buckel.

I can go on and on.

Agree 100%. The Rangers' past is littered with "can't-miss elite talent" who did in fact "miss". Mateo- injury. Diamond- terrible. Volquez- #3/4 starter. Danks- fringe rotation guy. Botts- failure. Smoak- mediocre bench player. Davis- big power, awful average. Teagarden- weak emergency backup. Max Ramirez- bagging groceries somewhere. Salty- mediocre starting catcher. Feliz- injury, career likely done. Olt- awful. Profar- injury, a maybe at best. Beavan- nowhere to be found after a few mediocre years. Erlin- nope. Buckel- minor league washout. Neil Ramirez- again, nope. Sardinas- bench fodder. CJ Edwards- has done nothing for the Cubs.

Some of those guys weren't considered elite prospects, but all were seen at one time as pieces of the Rangers' future. The BEST that entire group has produced is Chris Davis as a .220 power hitter, Volquez as a solid #4 starter, Danks as a serviceable #5 starter, and Feliz as a 2-3 year great closer then flameout. Not one true all-star or elite player among them.

And now we've got more "can't-miss" prospects who some deem "untouchable", and already a few of them are displaying fairly significant question marks. Joey Gallo is a monster when he makes contact... when he makes contact. His K rate is troubling to say the least. Jorge Alfaro has major red flags regarding his defense and ability to frame pitches and call a good game. And we've seen living proof of why scouts view Chi-Chi as a #3-#4 type ceiling guy... solid stuff and nice control, but doesn't make hitters miss much.

If you have the chance to land controllable and proven elite MLB talent, you do it. Letting go of Justin Smoak got us Cliff Lee and a World Series appearance. Holding on to Mike Olt cost us at the very least a half season of Zack Greinke.

The Rangers have absolutely nothing in the way of a guaranteed rotation for 2016. Nothing. Nobody knows just how Darvish will rebound from TJ. Lewis and Gallardo are free agents. No guarantees they're back. Holland is likely, but he's far from a sure thing at this point with him missing 2 full seasons. Counting on Harrison for anything past his next start is foolish. And Martin Perez is slowly making his way back from surgery too.

Unless you're willing to write off 2016 as well, I don't see how anyone can say that trading 2-3 prospects for Cole Hamels is a bad idea. Land Hamels now, sign a RH bat and a decent reliever in the offseason, and suddenly the Rangers are at least Wild Card candidates again next year if not better.

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

Unless you're willing to write off 2016 as well, I don't see how anyone can say that trading 2-3 prospects for Cole Hamels is a bad idea.

Some people might be wary of his contract, but otherwise, solid post.

 

[saddles]

How does that compare to other teams.

Very good question.

 

[saddles]

We have traded prospects for a lot of "proven" veterans who were flops as well. That argument cuts both ways.

Like Norm said we have had a lack of prospects who contributed in a big way, but could that be in large part to a failure on the organization's part to develop these guys properly in the upper levels and at the big league level. How much was Wash to blame in the past with this? How much is Magadan to blame?

 

[WilltheThrill]

We have traded prospects for a lot of "proven" veterans who were flops as well. That argument cuts both ways.

Like Norm said we have had a lack of prospects who contributed in a big way, but could that be in large part to a failure on the organization's part to develop these guys properly in the upper levels and at the big league level. How much was Wash to blame in the past with this? How much is Magadan to blame?

The only "proven veterans" in the recent past we've traded for who turned out to be busts were Ryan Dempster, Matt Garza, and to a lesser extent Cristian Guzman and Jorge Cantu. But none of those guys come close to the talent level of Cole Hamels. I'm against trading prospects for marginal upgrades like those guys. But elite guys like Cliff Lee, Zack Greinke, and Cole Hamels- yes, all day yes. Trading prospects for proven elite aces and them ending up being bad moves are mistakes you can live with. The Dempster and Garza moves were mistakes once the pen hit the paper.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

You guys can have tonight...Chris Capuano is pretty much as close a team will come to saying "you guys can have this one"

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

You guys can have tonight...Chris Capuano is pretty much as close a team will come to saying "you guys can have this one"

 

[saddles]

I do think JD has ruined some arms by moving them back and forth between the pen and the rotation as well.

 

[romeo212000]

I do think JD has ruined some arms by moving them back and forth between the pen and the rotation as well.

Hard to say, but I think I'd quit that for the time being.

 

[WilltheThrill]

I do think JD has ruined some arms by moving them back and forth between the pen and the rotation as well.

Neftali Feliz, Alexi Ogando, Robbie Ross Jr., and Tanner Scheppers would all agree with you.

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

The Royals are fucking going for it.

Royals make another big move, get Ben Zobrist from As | HardballTalk

 

[DT LUNA]

Where is the game being televised? ( channel ) plz

 

[DT LUNA]

Where is the game being televised? ( channel ) plz

Ben is a good find

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

Where is the game being televised? ( channel ) plz

Fox Sports 1.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

You guys can have tonight...Chris Capuano is pretty much as close a team will come to saying "you guys can have this one"

We can use it. After all you are facing back to back pitchers who are still rehabbing with last night's starter trying to make what would be a remarkable comeback from back fusion. So I think our gifts are out giving your gift.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

The Royals are fucking going for it.

Royals make another big move, get Ben Zobrist from As | HardballTalk

Good for the Royals. I would not have a problem with them winning it all. After all, they gave us a great time watching that absolute fold by Oakland in the AL playoffs.

 

[DT LUNA]

Fox Sports 1.

Thanks Eph

 

[jaar01]

Is Cole Hamels really in the same class as Price and Grienke? I don't think so. Dont be fooled by his no-hitter against the Cubs. He is not an elite level pitcher anymore.

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

Good for the Royals. I would not have a problem with them winning it all. After all, they gave us a great time watching that absolute fold by Oakland in the AL playoffs.

Yep, nothing wrong with them in my book.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

The only "proven veterans" in the recent past we've traded for who turned out to be busts were Ryan Dempster, Matt Garza, and to a lesser extent Cristian Guzman and Jorge Cantu. But none of those guys come close to the talent level of Cole Hamels. I'm against trading prospects for marginal upgrades like those guys. But elite guys like Cliff Lee, Zack Greinke, and Cole Hamels- yes, all day yes. Trading prospects for proven elite aces and them ending up being bad moves are mistakes you can live with. The Dempster and Garza moves were mistakes once the pen hit the paper.

I have said before that there are certain players and more so pitchers that I would be willing to give up prospects. I have been on here in the past saying Hamels would be one. Of course Greinke and a few others. Still I want to be careful on who those prospects are. One example to me is Mazara. But many times I think you have prospects so that you can make moves that improve your ball club. But I want to improve it for the future and not just for this season and I am glad to see JD looking at it that way. And that is a positive with Hamels.