HOMER!

[soulxflare]

Homer

I'm not saying some of it isn't undue, but I think Homer is getting bashed a little more than he should. Let's look at the guy's resume -- he took over early in 2006-07, so he's been GM for 4 full seasons. Of those, he's made 3 trips to the playoffs, 2 trips to the eastern conference finals, 1 trip to the stanley cup finals.

He hasn't won a championship (yet), but he also hasn't butchered this team like Clarkie used to. I don't necessarily like all the moves he makes (Gags, Upshall [leave it alone, Ander]), but I understand where he's coming from, and can't really argue with the results.

The team has (arguably) gotten better every year that he's been in charge, so I will wait to see if this collection of offseason moves pays off before I pass judgement.

 

[SuperFlyer13]

Does anyone else feel Homer dropped the ball this off season? I was talking with Tox about it and my conclusion was that since he has been GM he really hasn't done too much with the exception being Pronger! Realistically this is still a lot of Clarkies team, We have been having the same issue every year heading into the season, we need a legit #1 goalie and every year the situation stays the same. Sure he's tried a few could be's, but none have ever panned out! So why keep wasting time and just get a Good goalie! All those secondary meaningless moves he has done past & now could have been remedied along time ago! Shit he and Clarkie damn near mortgaged the team every year, and neither ever went after a premier goalie! Go figure.. Anyway sorry for the rant. This is just my opinion, I would like to hear others take on Homer.

 

[SuperFlyer13]

DUDE! too crazy, you must have just posted this before I posted mine! I will ask Tox to combine them and make it one thread. I agree with a lot of what you said but I still believe he could have got a #1 goalie along time ago! I am staying with my opinion but if he deliver's a championship under his method I will gladly be the first one to say I was totally wrong. That being said, i will add that Lava has been the reason for this teams success, he has gotten the best out of all these player's!

 

[ProppRules]

Overall I couldn't be happier with Homer. THe FLyers went from dead last to conf finals in one year, and the CUp finals in 3. Hard to beat that. COburn was a great trade. Carle was a great trade. Pronger a good one so far. DOn't forget picking up Leino and Leighton for nothing. TUrning Foppa into Timmonen and Hartnell was a good move (and Kevin Marshall.)
That said, he has really made some confusing ones too. The Cardillo trade wasn't great, with the 2nd rounder going the other way really making it look bad. Trading for Emminger was stupid, but he did make up for that. Vandermeer was awful. I don't understand the Jody Shelley signing at all. While I don't mind trading Gags at this point (Gagne admitted being ready to shop himself around as a FA) I don't get the return. A pure salary dump I get. But an 8th d-man making 1.7 million I don't.
THe hardest part here is grading Homer in a cap era. He is the only GM the FLyers have ever had in the cap era. The best grading system I can use is results. And final 4 one year, final two one year, and a playoff team the third year is pretty good.

 

[awaz]

i'm with propp.. what he got for forseberg, when all was said and done, is absolutely incredible.. he essentially turned forse into timo, hartnell, parent and a pick.. when you consider forse played around 20 games for the preds.. ridiculous

zhitnik for coburn.. huge steal

oh and i'm not sure how you can say its still basically clarkes team.. with the gagne move that leaves richards and carter as the only 2 guys that were on the team when clarke was GM..

however.. there is a lot to be desired.. the cap situation the flyers are in is very disconcerting.. especially when you consider the players that will be free agents next year (carter, giroux, leino) and the limited space we have to begin with.. it would be one thing if the guys he brought in were all on 1 year contracts (odonnell and z are, but walker, shelley, and mesz are not).. the flyers have a lot of work to do next season to make it all fit together.. look at it this way, the flyers have 12.5ish mil that comes off the cap next year, give them a generous 2 mil cap increase and call it 14.5 in cap space, but they have to sign giroux, carter, leino + 2 more forwards, a goalie, and probably a dman.. that is an UGLY situation

 

[indyflyr]

i'm going to have to back holmgren. of course it's easy to look good post-clarke. but he's made good moves when it mattered most. his ability to tweek unexpected talent has been so-so. but i'm very encouraged with leino, who by the way has not become my new favorite player. now if he can get rid of hartnell and stop handing out ntc's, get back to drafting talent, we are well on our way to being a LEGIT yearly contender.

 

[SuperFlyer13]

i'm with propp.. what he got for forseberg, when all was said and done, is absolutely incredible.. he essentially turned forse into timo, hartnell, parent and a pick.. when you consider forse played around 20 games for the preds.. ridiculous

zhitnik for coburn.. huge steal

oh and i'm not sure how you can say its still basically clarkes team.. with the gagne move that leaves richards and carter as the only 2 guys that were on the team when clarke was GM..

however.. there is a lot to be desired.. the cap situation the flyers are in is very disconcerting.. especially when you consider the players that will be free agents next year (carter, giroux, leino) and the limited space we have to begin with.. it would be one thing if the guys he brought in were all on 1 year contracts (odonnell and z are, but walker, shelley, and mesz are not).. the flyers have a lot of work to do next season to make it all fit together.. look at it this way, the flyers have 12.5ish mil that comes off the cap next year, give them a generous 2 mil cap increase and call it 14.5 in cap space, but they have to sign giroux, carter, leino + 2 more forwards, a goalie, and probably a dman.. that is an UGLY situation

I agree with a lot of what you said. I could have made better points in my original statement but hey it was 5:30 am and my brain wasn't fully functional. I will try to reply better when and if a get a few minutes of free time!

 

[awaz]

I agree with a lot of what you said. I could have made better points in my original statement but hey it was 5:30 am and my brain wasn't fully functional. I will try to reply better when and if a get a few minutes of free time!

yep.. there are definitely areas where homer could use some improvement.. his cap management hasn't been good, not at all.. he's put a good enough product on the ice for me to forgive him for that.. but its simple stuff, like the order of how he handled the team this year.. if he moves gagne before acquiring mesz and signing shelley/zherdev, we probably could've gotten a lot more for him.. but when teams see that gagne is gone no matter what, what is the incentive to give up something big for him when if it all comes down to it the flyers have to waive him to be allowed to compete?..

and signing leighton to a 1.55 mil cap hit, prior to FA, was a gross miscalculation of goalie value when you consider the goalies that have been signed in free agency.. mason at 1.85 is a significantly superior goalie for a measely 300k more.. and biron, ellis, and nitty are at least equal to the journeyman AHL goalie thats between our pipes, and they all took less money.. thats an error that could've been fixed by waiting 24 hours.. i cant imagine, given the outcome of the goalies in free agency, that someone would get in a bidding war for a career waiver-wire guy, worst case scenario leighton takes less money than he signed for prior to FA because you can argue his value is less than those signed for cheaper

say he does it in the correct order:
1. trades gagne at the draft, maybe for a decent pick (1st or 2nd rounder), or at least gets some decent prospects

2. trades the 2nd round pick for mesz

3. signs shelley, odonnell, and zherdev

4. signs mason for 1.85

doing it in this order would've netted a significantly better goalie, a pick/prospect, and saved 1.4ish mil in cap space (no leighton, no walker)

 

[scottflyers88]

i did not really read much of the thread and will make mine short. we all know what he did in the past. i will just write about what he did this offseason.

traded a second round pick for meszaros. i think this is a steal.
signed odonnell. pretty good pickup.
signed zherdev. my favorite deal of the offseason. very good move for only 2 mil. we do not have a ton of draft picks and this makes up for some of it because our team is getting younger.
traded gagne. not a very good return. i would have been happier with some draft picks.

 

[SuperFlyer13]

yep.. there are definitely areas where homer could use some improvement.. his cap management hasn't been good, not at all.. he's put a good enough product on the ice for me to forgive him for that.. but its simple stuff, like the order of how he handled the team this year.. if he moves gagne before acquiring mesz and signing shelley/zherdev, we probably could've gotten a lot more for him.. but when teams see that gagne is gone no matter what, what is the incentive to give up something big for him when if it all comes down to it the flyers have to waive him to be allowed to compete?..

and signing leighton to a 1.55 mil cap hit, prior to FA, was a gross miscalculation of goalie value when you consider the goalies that have been signed in free agency.. mason at 1.85 is a significantly superior goalie for a measely 300k more.. and biron, ellis, and nitty are at least equal to the journeyman AHL goalie thats between our pipes, and they all took less money.. thats an error that could've been fixed by waiting 24 hours.. i cant imagine, given the outcome of the goalies in free agency, that someone would get in a bidding war for a career waiver-wire guy, worst case scenario leighton takes less money than he signed for prior to FA because you can argue his value is less than those signed for cheaper

say he does it in the correct order:
1. trades gagne at the draft, maybe for a decent pick (1st or 2nd rounder), or at least gets some decent prospects

2. trades the 2nd round pick for mesz

3. signs shelley, odonnell, and zherdev

4. signs mason for 1.85

doing it in this order would've netted a significantly better goalie, a pick/prospect, and saved 1.4ish mil in cap space (no leighton, no walker)

Well I guess you summed it very well Awaz, Shit every point you made was spot on. Especially the Gagne situation. We should have def moved him before signing anybody to get a good trade or at least some decent picks & don't even get my stoned ass started about our goalie situation

 

[SuperFlyer13]

Okay I finally got some free time so let me just add I agree with every thing Awaz said earlier!