Hoke's WR's

[RobBase]

Isn't it true that there hasn't been an All-American wide receiver in the last five years over 6'2?

A.J. Green 6' 4"
Alshon Jeffery - 6' 3"

I'm pretty sure both of them were All-Americans in 2010.

 

[jalopy]

2012
Marquise Lee- 5'11"
Terrance Williams 6'1"
2011
Justin Blackmon 6"1"
Robert Woods 6'0"
2010
Ryan Broyles 5'10"
2009
Golden Tate 5'11"
Jordan Shipley 6'0"
2008
Michael Crabtree 6'1"
Dez Bryant 6'1"

-Associated Press First Team All-Americans

2010 First Team All-Americans (AP) were Broyles and Blackmon. If your source is more accepted and respected than the AP, we will go with it. I personally agree with you that Green is superior in talent to Broyles.

 

[RobBase]

coaches poll for Jefferey

The AFCA has selected an All-America team since 1945 and it is chosen exclusively by the coaches.

Alshon Jeffery Named To 2010 AFCA Coaches' All-America Team - South Carolina Official Athletic Site

NCAA Football Coaches' All-Americans Announced: Cam Newton is Your Starting QB | Bleacher Report

Green -

Selected to the Walter Camp All-America Second Team and to the Pro Football Weekly All-America Team.

A.J. Green Bio - Georgia Official Athletic Site

I guess it depends on how much stock you put into different opinions. Like I noted before, 6/9 players you posted there all played in the Big 12 where everyone gets huge YAC stats because of the spread offenses playing against loose zone defenses. There's a lot of arguments to be made saying those spread offenses made those kids All-Americans (by voters who value stats most) and not just their talent. That is not to take away from their accomplishments. It's just that many of them go onto to struggle in the NFL. So where did all that talent go once they were plugged into a pro style offense?

 

[nonbcsfan]

I'll be happy to explain to you why your opinions are not objective...

Objective is a statement that is completely unbiased. It is not touched by the speaker’s previous experiences or tastes. It is verifiable by looking up facts or performing mathematical calculations. In other words, facts.

Opinions, on the other hand, are subjective and reflect the perspective through which the opiner views reality (this should be an open door for you non).

Conclusion: Objective Opinion is a contradiction of terms.

Cheese with your whine?

is this the best you can do? this is straight from the web...

When someone decides "objectively", they're just thinking about the facts, not their own feelings. When you ask for an "objective opinion", you want to hear the opinion of someone who doesn't already have strong feelings about a subject, and who won't gain or lose anything because of the decision.
Objectivity is an important idea in American and Western culture. People usually value objective decisions and opinions more highly than biased or emotional ones.

So with the above in mind, lets looks at the facts, Hoke recruited players like Larue, Scott, and Diggs, who are "fast and athletic" rather than "big and slow", but we didn't land them, not because Hoke has a policy against that, but because he couldn't. Your insane conspriracy theories against Hoke never wanting to throw the ball and spread offense being superior to a pro style west coast offense are comical... In retort I fully expect you to continue fizzing like a little baby with chants "we need speed"...

 

[Sox33OSU]

as opposed to you guys developing QB's?

When's that going to start happening?

Why did you have to deflect? Did what I say upset you?

 

[jalopy]

Why did you have to deflect? Did what I say upset you?

I think it is because of our new credo, "If we can't blame it on RR, it didn't happen".

Luckily, I am old enough to remember back to when this lopsided rivalry was situated on its' other pole.

I, for one, look forward to the upcoming years and a more even balanced series. Good luck this year and hopefully we go back-to-back this November.

 

[Sox33OSU]

I think it is because of our new credo, "If we can't blame it on RR, it didn't happen".

Luckily, I am old enough to remember back to when this lopsided rivalry was situated on its' other pole.

I, for one, look forward to the upcoming years and a more even balanced series. Good luck this year and hopefully we go back-to-back this November.

Amen to that. I hope Hoke is as good at developing a consistent winner as he is at recruiting. Jesus Christ.

 

[jalopy]

Amen to that. I hope Hoke is as good at developing a consistent winner as he is at recruiting. Jesus Christ.

Defensively, Mattison is as good as there is. Offensively, we are taking the Big and Tall route. I worry but, if you've read this thread, the faithful are unconcerned.

 

[Chief]

Defensively, Mattison is as good as there is. Offensively, we are taking the Big and Tall route. I worry but, if you've read this thread, the faithful are unconcerned.

There it is. You said earlier you're not knocking Hoke's recruiting. I'm not going back over the entire thread to find all your comments.

While you may not have come right out and knocked him, you most certain imply it an awful lot.

Same with your "we all blame RR" junk. It most certainly isn't Carr's fault at this point. A major difference is I have yet to hear or read Hoke ever laying anything on the previous staff.

It's unfortunate you think being a fan means blind obedience, never speaking about the negative and falling in lock-step... oh wait,...

 

[Brasky]

Lord knows we all want the Keenan Allens of the world, but there's only one or two of those per WR crop who actually pan out.

It's once every 20 or so years you actually land a guy with legit size, speed, athleticism, and the most important thing: Want to.

It's a lot more beneficial to find role players who have solid attributes who you're not gambling on.

The main thing I've seen that's a huge problem with elite WR's out of HS is character. You get a lot of divas who aren't willing to ride the bench and know their role. They end up being cancers to the team and never actually end up contributing.

 

[jalopy]

There it is. You said earlier you're not knocking Hoke's recruiting. I'm not going back over the entire thread to find all your comments.

While you may not have come right out and knocked him, you most certain imply it an awful lot.

Same with your "we all blame RR" junk. It most certainly isn't Carr's fault at this point. A major difference is I have yet to hear or read Hoke ever laying anything on the previous staff.

It's unfortunate you think being a fan means blind obedience, never speaking about the negative and falling in lock-step... oh wait,...

UH oh! Someone started celebrating the holiday weekend a bit early.

I don't bring up RR. Ever. It is the past. I do defend him as our brethren blame everything on him. Let the past be just that, the past.

As for Hoke's recruiting ability, I have said repeatedly that he and his staff are top notch which is why I don't buy it when people say he isn't focusing on only tall WR's. Well, that and statistics. Wasn't that the original point of this thread?

 

[jalopy]

The main thing I've seen that's a huge problem with elite WR's out of HS is character. You get a lot of divas who aren't willing to ride the bench and know their role. They end up being cancers to the team and never actually end up contributing.

Great point. I think recruiters need to promise them the moon to get them to commit and then when they walk on campus and aren't the go to guy, they sulk. Character is an intangible that is as valuable as speed.

It's a lot more beneficial to find role players who have solid attributes who you're not gambling on.

I get your point but I think you need a blend of leaders and followers but leaders need to earn their position, not be anointed.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

I guess you know youre recruiting well when the only thing people complain about is receivers being too tall.

 

[jalopy]

You have a point LPW but you missed the main one by a mile.

Hoke is recruiting so well that Michigan should soon be in the position of recruiting for depth instead of needing a home run with every recruit. We still have needs but they are getting less with every class.

 

[jalopy]

well there is a saying in football, if you can successfully keep your opponent off balance with gimmicky plays, then you're a good team (Boise St is a fine example of that). When your opponents know exactly what the play is, and still can't stop it, then you're a great team (Alabama is a fine example of that).

There's another quote you forgot. You can't tackle what you can't catch!

 

[nonbcsfan]

There's another quote you forgot. You can't tackle what you can't catch!

yeah and there is another quote you could of used "you can't teach speed"... but for some darn reason all those quick players on Oregon and WVU falter when they go up against truly elite athletes that teams like OSU, LSU, and Bama put on the field... you know dudes that are highly athletic and have SIZE. Then again please remind how tall is Calvin Johnson? Randy Moss? Jerry Rice? you know the truly best of the best... The funny thing J, is that I actually agree that Hoke has been bringing in subpar receivers by "Michigan standards" but unlike you, I am not blaming that on the lack of trying or some crazy conspiracy theories... to me it's very simple, Michigan offense has been terrible through the air since the days of Henne, and the current crop of elite receivers don't remember that far back.

 

[jalopy]

We can save the Oregon argument for another day but suffice to say that Oregon lately has tended to recruit skill positions better than Alabama and 'Bama has attracted better talent along lines. I don't think you can make a fair determination of which style is better just yet. 'Bama's method does appear more consistent, I will cede that.
The funny thing J, is that I actually agree that Hoke has been bringing in subpar receivers by "Michigan standards" but unlike you, I am not blaming that on the lack of trying or some crazy conspiracy theories..

This is the crux or where we disagree. Both Hoke and Borges have said (or reported to have said) they are focusing on bigger receivers for their pro-style offense. By doing that, you are eliminating a large portion of the talent pool out there. People have stated that there are only so many tall, talented receivers out there and they are correct. No one is disputing that height isn't an advantage just like you aren't saying that speed isn't advantage. I just don't think height is THE determining factor when it comes to playing that position, especially at the college level. I was as excited as anyone at the Harris commit. Why? because of his height? Hardly. It was because of his purported skill level.

For me, I am thrilled that Michigan is making strides in their return to national relevance. Is my thrill tempered by the fact that their brand of football isn't my top preference? Of course but that doesn't make Hoke's accomplishments any less impressive in my eyes. I am just less likely to watch or go to games.

No conspiracy here. My time is limited and I would prefer it if my favorite team would play the type of football that I prefer to watch. Selfish? Probably.

 

[jdwills126]

I think Hoke has tried for the speedster but hasn't gotten one to commit. He has had some tall big body guys that teams have trouble with in the red zone commit.

The problem Hoke has had is the elite speed guys look at UofM's passing game with question marks. Not many kids want to wait 2-3 years in hope Morris or Speight pans out. Gardner has question marks and UofM was a one trick pony with D Rob under center.

IMO Hoke's get of Drake Harris is huge. He bridges that gap IMO between big body and flat out all around wideout that can stretch the field.

 

[jalopy]

I think Hoke has tried for the speedster but hasn't gotten one to commit. He has had some tall big body guys that teams have trouble with in the red zone commit.

The problem Hoke has had is the elite speed guys look at UofM's passing game with question marks. Not many kids want to wait 2-3 years in hope Morris or Speight pans out. Gardner has question marks and UofM was a one trick pony with D Rob under center.

IMO Hoke's get of Drake Harris is huge. He bridges that gap IMO between big body and flat out all around wideout that can stretch the field.

I can live with that but the perception is out there that the team wants tall big and tall guys out there. Gardner will end up being a better passer than Morris and possibly Speight as well. The impetus behind this thread is that it is a crime that DG has limited tools. He will likely have a true freshman at RB (with talent) and if he has a big play threat downfield, Jones is going to have to emerge quickly (unlikely). I like Gallon but he is not an elite #1. Funchess is going to get a lot of attention. Hopefully Darboh or Chesson can contribute. DRob never should have touched the center's ass in this offense.

 

[nonbcsfan]

J, Hoke and Borges say those things because they want big and fast receivers, but unfortunately so far they haven't really been able to get the really fast guys, although I would argue that Chesson and Harris are pretty fast... So they use "coach speak" to talk about the good size, leaping ability, blocking etc... when you look at the receivers they have recruited, you'll see plenty of elite skill and speed, they just weren't able to reel them in. So it's not because of their coaching philosophy of not wanting to throw the ball, or stretch the field, or anything of that nature... it is because receivers are simply not intrigued by Michigan due to the product they have seen for the last 5 years. This is why I keep on saying it is imperative for Gardner to have a good year and prove that Borges' offense can get receivers 1000+ yards which in turn will attract better talent.