Here we go - Bonds, Clemens, Sosa on the Hall of Fame ballot

[Mays-Fan]

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa listed on Hall of Fame ballot for first time - ESPN

NEW YORK -- Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Sammy Sosa are listed on the baseball Hall of Fame ballot for the first time, setting up an election sure to become a referendum on the steroids era.

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Money time on this issue. I'm guessing with the dismal ballot numbers of McGwire and Palmeiro, that these three will never see their plaques in Cooperstown.

 

[calsnowskier]

I have no prob exercising a 1-year moratorium on all these guys, but they deserve to be in.

I personally would not vote Sosa, but that is mainly because he is a two-time cheat (cork). You cant trust any of his numbers.

Bonds and Clemens are still no-brainers.

 

[rmilia1]

Bonds and Clemens were HOFers BEFORE anyone ever accused them of starting to cheat. Those 2 should be in. Sosa... no. IMO.

 

[bone3421]

let them in.......if "everyone" was doing it then they are the best of the "best"

everyone has cheated in baseball..............

 

[filosofy29]

Bonds and Clemens were HOFers BEFORE anyone ever accused them of starting to cheat. Those 2 should be in. Sosa... no. IMO.

This ^. Sosa seemed to be a fringe player turned All-Star. The other two had HOF numbers before they turned up the cheating volume.

 

[tzill]

I have no prob exercising a 1-year moratorium on all these guys, but they deserve to be in.

I personally would not vote Sosa, but that is mainly because he is a two-time cheat (cork). You cant trust any of his numbers.

Bonds and Clemens are still no-brainers.

I agree. Although I do like the argument that since Sosa put up the numbers, he should get in.

 

[SFGRTB]

Don't you have to get a certain percentage (75%?) of votes? How do the writers vote anywho? Do they get a certain amount of votes and they choose what player gets it? If so, I don't see how anybody gets in this year, this class is loaded! Everyone will get a lot of votes but not enough, kinda like what happened with Timmeh and the Cy Young in 2009, the votes were so evenly distributed, Tim won even though he didn't have the most 1st place votes.

Maybe someone can enlighten me on the voting process....

 

[huskers1217]

let them in.......if "everyone" was doing it then they are the best of the "best"

everyone has cheated in baseball..............

[SARCASM FONT]you mean..george brett, rollie fingers, and all of them cheated? [/SARCASM FONT]

 

[gp956]

Don't you have to get a certain percentage (75%?) of votes? How do the writers vote anywho? Do they get a certain amount of votes and they choose what player gets it? If so, I don't see how anybody gets in this year, this class is loaded! Everyone will get a lot of votes but not enough, kinda like what happened with Timmeh and the Cy Young in 2009, the votes were so evenly distributed, Tim won even though he didn't have the most 1st place votes.

Maybe someone can enlighten me on the voting process....

Jack Morris will probably get in. Writers will leave the "steroid guys" off their ballot, so Morris will move up a few slots on a lot of ballots. He was pretty close last year, and he's getting near to the end of his eligibility. The guy benefits from steroids without having to ever take them......well, he probably never took them. You never know, they were around when he was pitching (*cough Brian Downing anyone? *cough*), and he did win 21 games as a 37 year old.

 

[huskers1217]

 

[msgkings322]

This ^. Sosa seemed to be a fringe player turned All-Star. The other two had HOF numbers before they turned up the cheating volume.

Agreed. For Bonds and Clemens the cost of steroids will be getting in the HOF much later than they should have, which would have been first ballot

 

[Smart]

This ^. Sosa seemed to be a fringe player turned All-Star. The other two had HOF numbers before they turned up the cheating volume.

Sosa was a 30-30 player when he was still tiny. Hardly a fringe player....

 

[Robotech]

Major League Baseball is not offering refunds on the games these guys played, nor are they revoking their stats, awards, wins, etc. Bottom line is that these guys performed, and based on the recent statements and reports that are out there, it sounds like the playing field was more level than we originally thought. Bonds and Clemens were the best of the best. Sosa's not at their level, but I think he did enough to make it to the Hall of Fame.

 

[filosofy29]

Sosa was a 30-30 player when he was still tiny. Hardly a fringe player....

Was he? I'm open to hearing/learning more and changing my opinion (not that I'm the end-all-be-all, lol). My stance wasn't stagnant and I admit that it comes from memory, not from research. What year do you "believe" he started cheating (before he was huge)?

 

[Mays-Fan]

Major League Baseball is not offering refunds on the games these guys played, nor are they revoking their stats, awards, wins, etc. Bottom line is that these guys performed, and based on the recent statements and reports that are out there, it sounds like the playing field was more level than we originally thought. Bonds and Clemens were the best of the best. Sosa's not at their level, but I think he did enough to make it to the Hall of Fame.

Based on their numbers and their accomplihments, they are all no-brainers. But there is zero chance they get in because of the roids. Zero.

 

[Smart]

Was he? I'm open to hearing/learning more and changing my opinion (not that I'm the end-all-be-all, lol). My stance wasn't stagnant and I admit that it comes from memory, not from research. What year do you "believe" he started cheating (before he was huge)?

In 1993, he hit 30-30. He was slender (hence the 30 stolen bases). By virtually all accounts, Sosa was an extremely hard worker who transformed himself into a consistent guy hitting 30-40 HRs in his mid-20s while still having speed and stealing 20+ bases.

He started to get bigger in 1996. Before 1998, he bulked up considerably. He suddenly hit 66 HRs, and hit 49 or more the next five seasons. He never stole more than seven bases after 1998.

Most Cubs followers (beat reporters and experts) point to 1996-1998 as when he started using steroids.

 

[msgkings322]

Based on their numbers and their accomplihments, they are all no-brainers. But there is zero chance they get in because of the roids. Zero.

I think you're wrong, MaysFan. Zero chance right now but over time they will accumulate votes as the roid thing gets less raw. I predict 5-6 years from now they get in (Bonds and Clemens). Sosa may get Palmeiro'd though.

 

[Smart]

I think you're wrong, MaysFan. Zero chance right now but over time they will accumulate votes as the roid thing gets less raw. I predict 5-6 years from now they get in (Bonds and Clemens). Sosa may get Palmeiro'd though.

There are way too many voters who have said they'll never vote for steroid users for them to get it. The voters are often the guys who were beat reporters in the 1970s and 80s. Those guys hate the steroid era, and they probably won't die out or give up their votes anytime soon.

 

[msgkings322]

In 1993, he hit 30-30. He was slender (hence the 30 stolen bases). By virtually all accounts, Sosa was an extremely hard worker who transformed himself into a consistent guy hitting 30-40 HRs in his mid-20s while still having speed and stealing 20+ bases.

He started to get bigger in 1996. Before 1998, he bulked up considerably. He suddenly hit 66 HRs, and hit 49 or more the next five seasons. He never stole more than seven bases after 1998.

Most Cubs followers (beat reporters and experts) point to 1996-1998 as when he started using steroids.

And when Bonds saw lesser lights like Sosa and McGwire getting all the love in 1998, he said 'fuck em, my turn'. Pretty much directly told Griffey that if you believe the rumors.

Book traces Bonds' steroids use to McGwire-Sosa HR race - SFGate

It's a freaking Greek tragedy, complete with hubris and the fall that follows...

 

[msgkings322]

There are way too many voters who have said they'll never vote for steroid users for them to get it. The voters are often the guys who were beat reporters in the 1970s and 80s. Those guys hate the steroid era, and they probably won't die out or give up their votes anytime soon.

Well they will die out eventually. So maybe 5-6 years is too soon but 10-12 is really likely to me.

Also, some may soften their views over time.

And I'm curious, once you get a vote do you get to keep it for life or until you give it back? Or can you be removed from voting?