Here we go - Bonds, Clemens, Sosa on the Hall of Fame ballot

[HammerDown]

... which, in turn, makes the righteous indignation absurd. Everyone knows that they will be in eventually, but this "stand" is somehow warranted. It's the never-coulds (even with PEDs) trying to stick it to the millionaire cheaters (even though there were no enforced rules) while none of it affects the billionaire enablers (like it would matter). All for the "sanctity" of some silly museum. Ridiculous.

I'd argue with you if I could but your logic is pretty airtight. I say unless a player dominated during the steroid era without the 'roids, he doesn't need to be sticking his nose in the air.

 

[tzill]

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. What I was trying to say is that once someone is in you can't just take them out. It just doesn't seem right to me. I say put an asterisk by the names and let it be. Maybe if the media had made as big of an issue of the greenies things would be different. Today's media is very different and the roids thing has been blown up big time.

I know I'm a hard-ass about the PED's thing but really at the end of the day it is all part of the game and it's history. I'm sure eventually the correct call will be made. MLB is a great organization and you can usually count on them to do the right thing or at least try to.

So your criteria is: if they are already in, it's OK, but if not, fuck 'em?

That's pretty capricious, especially since there is no proven causal link between steroids and hitting and there is a lot of evidence amphetamines are PEDs.

If you're going to "asterisk" players in the HOF, why not put Bonds and Clemens in with asterisks?

I'm not following your logic here.

 

[Heathbar012]

I'd argue with you if I could but your logic is pretty airtight. I say unless a player dominated during the steroid era without the 'roids, he doesn't need to be sticking his nose in the air.

So Ken Griffey, Jr. Imagine if he could've come back a little quicker from some of those injuries?

 

[powerchord86]

So your criteria is: if they are already in, it's OK, but if not, fuck 'em?

That's pretty capricious, especially since there is no proven causal link between steroids and hitting and there is a lot of evidence amphetamines are PEDs.

If you're going to "asterisk" players in the HOF, why not put Bonds and Clemens in with asterisks?

I'm not following your logic here.

If they are voted in they are voted in. In the case of Bonds and Clemens there is beyond a reasonable doubt evidence that they used PED's. And it all came out well before their names hit the ballot. This information allows for prevention of them getting in.

 

[calsnowskier]

... which, in turn, makes the righteous indignation absurd. Everyone knows that they will be in eventually, but this "stand" is somehow warranted. It's the never-coulds (even with PEDs) trying to stick it to the millionaire cheaters (even though there were no enforced rules) while none of it affects the billionaire enablers (like it would matter). All for the "sanctity" of some silly museum. Ridiculous.

This here really is the end of the argument for me.

I have to iron out my feels about the issue a bit. Currently, McGwire has my vote, but I do not intend on giving a vote to Sosa. I need to define why that is, and potentially either drop McGwire or add Sosa to my ballot. I am not sure you can have one without the other.

 

[dredinis21]

If they are voted in they are voted in. In the case of Bonds and Clemens there is beyond a reasonable doubt evidence that they used PED's. And it all came out well before their names hit the ballot. This information allows for prevention of them getting in.

That's bullshit considering that baseball didn't come around to banning steroids from the game until like 2003. Technically, they weren't cheating the game so the whole "beyond a reasonable doubt" crap doesn't hold weight. Mantle turned to greenies to help him recover from hangovers known to kill horses and yet no real disdain for that behavior. What steroids does above and beyond anything else is help in recovery time post-workout/performance. Couldn't greenies be seen as doing the same thing for players of yesteryear? My problem isn't the steroids...my problem is with EVERYONE appalled by the PEDs when they have been in baseball since the 30's.

 

[powerchord86]

 

[dredinis21]

powerchord, so what do you then do with those already in the HOF who have used greenies? Surely you don't want to start classifying and compartmentalizing the degrees of cheating as seen by the baseball gods, do you? Those players used PEDs when they were not banned by the sport much the steroid users. Shouldn't they adhere to the same "punishments"?

 

[powerchord86]

 

[gp956]

As a follow-up to my Maris/steroids hypothesis, I add the following:

Steroids and Hair Loss



Again - these are just dots connecting Maris and Dianabol. But they are getting more closely connected, IMHO.

It really depends on the individual. If you're prone to hair loss then any increase in testosterone will also lead to increases in the hormone (dht) that is needed for male pattern baldness to assert itself.

 

[SFAnthem]

It really depends on the individual. If you're prone to hair loss then any increase in testosterone will also lead to increases in the hormone (dht) that is needed for male pattern baldness to assert itself.

Or you can take one dose of bay area sports.

No gains in the muscle building department, though.