Gregg Williams' Instructions to Injure Niners

[Bemular]

Here is the full length video for those interested.

Full Greg Williams "Bounty" Audio Tape at a Meeting on January 13, 2012 - YouTube

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Caveman shit. The NFL would execute this guy if they could, because this stuff is going to be Exhibit A, Exhibit B, Exhibit C, and so on, in any future concussion trials. Not just negligence, but people actively trying to cause injuries.

It really does seem more and more like the super-blitz preseason game was a similar situation. They thought they shake Smith with hard hits.

 

[Bemular]

Caveman shit. The NFL would execute this guy if they could, because this stuff is going to be Exhibit A, Exhibit B, Exhibit C, and so on, in any future concussion trials. Not just negligence, but people actively trying to cause injuries.

It really does seem more and more like the super-blitz preseason game was a similar situation. They thought they shake Smith with hard hits.

Exactly!

 

[Yadahell]

Asking guys to target the head relentlessly. Not cool. Trying to tear a guy's ACL. Not cool. Karma is deservedly raping Williams.

Not cool man, not cool!

 

[mufasa76]

i watched our game @ the seahawks again lastnight and i say the NFL should investigate them too, bastards.....

 

[erckm510]

I dunno. Any violent sport is gonna have this type of rhetoric to hype people up. Yeah Williams is a dick and his words crossed the line but I'm pretty sure every other team talks to their players in some way(not using William's words but still). I would think boxing and MMA trainers are telling their guys exactly that stuff.

This kind of culture in the NFL has been around for a long time. They want to change it but it's not going to happen overnight.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

I dunno. Any violent sport is gonna have this type of rhetoric to hype people up. Yeah Williams is a dick and his words crossed the line but I'm pretty sure every other team talks to their players in some way(not using William's words but still). I would think boxing and MMA trainers are telling their guys exactly that stuff.

This kind of culture in the NFL has been around for a long time. They want to change it but it's not going to happen overnight.

No, it's different when you start naming specific players and specific injuries to those players....and then saying, "I got the first one." while rubbing your fingers together signifying money. I have heard from multiple NFL players on the radio today saying the same thing. There is a lot of talk in meetings to get guys pumped up, but naming names etc crosses a line.

I don't see how boxing and MMA can be compared to this. Those sports you are in an actual fight. The point is to knock the guy out and in the case of MMA you get a bonus for having the best one of the night. So a bounty system doesn't really matter if the organization basically already has one. But again.... the sport is an actual fight. A coach saying, "Go out there and knock this fuck out!" would be the equivalent of an NFL coach yelling, "Go out there and score more points than that other team!"

 

[Bemular]

No, it's different when you start naming specific players and specific injuries to those players....and then saying, "I got the first one." while rubbing your fingers together signifying money. I have heard from multiple NFL players on the radio today saying the same thing. There is a lot of talk in meetings to get guys pumped up, but naming names etc crosses a line.

Plus One!

 

[FourBeeDen]

I dunno. Any violent sport is gonna have this type of rhetoric to hype people up. Yeah Williams is a dick and his words crossed the line but I'm pretty sure every other team talks to their players in some way(not using William's words but still). I would think boxing and MMA trainers are telling their guys exactly that stuff.

This kind of culture in the NFL has been around for a long time. They want to change it but it's not going to happen overnight.

... Rhetoric is one thing but telling your players to disregard the rules and injure the other teams players is another thing..

.. You would think that trainers in boxing are saying to their fighters, " go for the groin" or " Hit him low"?.. Which is against the rules.. Like telling a defensive player in football to hit the QB on the head or go for the ACL...

 

[erckm510]

No, it's different when you start naming specific players and specific injuries to those players....and then saying, "I got the first one." while rubbing your fingers together signifying money. I have heard from multiple NFL players on the radio today saying the same thing. There is a lot of talk in meetings to get guys pumped up, but naming names etc crosses a line.

I don't see how boxing and MMA can be compared to this. Those sports you are in an actual fight. The point is to knock the guy out and in the case of MMA you get a bonus for having the best one of the night. So a bounty system doesn't really matter if the organization basically already has one. But again.... the sport is an actual fight. A coach saying, "Go out there and knock this fuck out!" would be the equivalent of an NFL coach yelling, "Go out there and score more points than that other team!"

I'll guarantee you that in the history of sports if someone knows their opponent is injured they will attack that weakness. Doesn't make it right but it's something that will get exploited. And as long as you don't say anything then it's ok?

Yes this all crosses the line but players on all teams do this and they've been doing this for a very long time. Hell Carlos Rogers played for Williams and only after this comes out does he admit to the bounties.

 

[mysfit]

I dunno. Any violent sport is gonna have this type of rhetoric to hype people up.

He didn't cross the line he obliterated it. When a coach starts specifying players, specifying types of injury he would like and flashing money signs?

That is not the type of rhetoric which should be happening.

He should be banned for life.

Period no question.

 

[erckm510]

... Rhetoric is one thing but telling your players to disregard the rules and injure the other teams players is another thing..

.. You would think that trainers in boxing are saying to their fighters, " go for the groin" or " Hit him low"?.. Which is against the rules.. Like telling a defensive player in football to hit the QB on the head or go for the ACL...

I've seen many instances where players make their own rules to win a game or match or whatever. Cheating happens all the time in sports.

No one will ever convince me that the NY Giants of the 80's weren't looking to take Montana out(legally or illegally) whenever they played

 

[erckm510]

He didn't cross the line he obliterated it. When a coach starts specifying players, specifying types of injury he would like and flashing money signs?

That is not the type of rhetoric which should be happening.

He should be banned for life.

Period no question.

No question he should be banned. But I think it's naive to say that it doesn't happen in other locker rooms. The Saints just happened to be caught.

 

[FourBeeDen]

I've seen many instances where players make their own rules to win a game or match or whatever. Cheating happens all the time in sports.

No one will ever convince me that the NY Giants of the 80's weren't looking to take Montana out(legally or illegally) whenever they played

...Does that make it OK for a coach to throw out the rules and tell his players to injure the other team's players? He is a coach for the team, that means he is responsible for not only playing hard but for making sure his players know the rules and follow them, not disregard them...

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Erick......while its certainly more common, it seems as though with the Saints - or more particularly, Williams - it was much bigger $$, more widespread and "official" than other places. You had the coach saying "put me down for X amount", you had shady individuals not connected with the team offering up money for injuries....this stuff was documented. It was institutionalized.....and none of the players saying its common have said anything about it being as huge as the Saints were making it.

And really, I doubt we've seen even a small fraction of the evidence the NFL has. There could be plenty more damning things like this video.

 

[erckm510]

...Does that make it OK for a coach to throw out the rules and tell his players to injure the other team's players? He is a coach for the team, that means he is responsible for not only playing hard but for making sure his players know the rules and follow them, not disregard them...

Obviously the rules are there for a reason and I never said that it was ok to break them. I'm saying that coaches and players break the rules all the time. As long as it's not blatant and doesn't get leaked to the press then the public doesn't care about it.

The Saints are guilty. What they did was wrong. It doesn't mean that it's still not going to happen anymore on any level of football and it doesn't change the fact that for as long as NFL as been around the public was fine with it.

 

[MHSL82]

Just read this and it makes me sick.

He should get nothing less than a lifetime ban IMO. If not, any team that hires him needs to be under a microscope.

I dunno. Any violent sport is gonna have this type of rhetoric to hype people up. Yeah Williams is a dick and his words crossed the line but I'm pretty sure every other team talks to their players in some way(not using William's words but still). I would think boxing and MMA trainers are telling their guys exactly that stuff.

This kind of culture in the NFL has been around for a long time. They want to change it but it's not going to happen overnight.

I apply this thinking to 31 of the 32 teams. When your team gets caught, you lose the benefit of the doubt. I know that puts emphasis on not getting caught, but what else am I supposed to do?

I refuse to blame everybody because it's supposedly common despite no other audio, investigation, or freakin' pay logs from anyone else. I suppose otherS could come up in the years from now and I'll add them to the pile of teams to despise. I also refuse to excuse someone's behavior because others do it. I NEVER saw any logical reason to do so. I can see people saying certain things we punish should not be punished. But why in the hell should something that should be punished be let go because others do it? When you get caught for speeding along everyone else, you don't get off because everyone else around you was speeding, too. You have a "flow of traffic" defense, but it won't do you any good. The ticket should be proportional to how much you were over the limit. You don't catch all the fish when you are fishing; you also don't put the fish back if you're hungry (unless you're a sport fisher or it's the law).

The way I see it is this - don't do it. If you do it, admit it or hide it. If you do it, don't hide it, admit it, you get punished just for doing it. If you do it, hide it, and get caught, you deserve punishment for doing it and hiding it. NONE of these excuses should apply when you are warned about it and continue. NONE of these excuses should be given any credence just because other's do it. Mad that others get away with it? Report it. Prove it. Join the movement to stop it. I'm sick and tired of people defending wrongdoers that knew what they were doing.

But the reason I respond to your post is because there's evidence that they WERE NOT PLAYING JUST TO PLAY HARD! They were playing to INJURE. To play the backups on the team. I give the benefit of the doubt to EVERYBODY but when that benefit is not warranted, I remove it and so should everyone else. I hate how people are defending clean hits when they are not clean hits. I hate how people are saying that this is just how football is when the Saints weren't playing football. You cannot remove context and defend people outside of that context. You might think it's unfair to be scrutinized for every hit when you may have hit as hard without the bounty or intention to injure, but that's too bad. If you want to be looked at fairly and having integrity, then you should play fairly and with integrity. If you lose because Crabtree had a great game, so be it, why take him out to try and celebrate beating the backup?

 

[MHSL82]

I'll guarantee you that in the history of sports if someone knows their opponent is injured they will attack that weakness. Doesn't make it right but it's something that will get exploited. And as long as you don't say anything then it's ok?

Yes this all crosses the line but players on all teams do this and they've been doing this for a very long time. Hell Carlos Rogers played for Williams and only after this comes out does he admit to the bounties.

Man, this could be applied anywhere. I'll guarantee you in the history of mortgages that if people know that someone is vulnerable to signing for more than they can afford they will targetted vulnerable people in giving mortgages. Doesn't make it right but it is something that will get exploited. And as long as you don't check the credit report or income statement, you're ok? Banks make money doing that, you're supposed to charge more than you pay.

This is not equivalent to fooling people with mortgages, but it is something that is wrong to do and the person doing it knew they were doing it and they were doing it in a place where there is some level of encouragement to benefit from it.

We got this one. In the future when they find others doing it, they'll get them too. I don't see why this gets a "yes this is wrong but whatever" treatment.

 

[MHSL82]

Obviously the rules are there for a reason and I never said that it was ok to break them. I'm saying that coaches and players break the rules all the time. As long as it's not blatant and doesn't get leaked to the press then the public doesn't care about it.

The Saints are guilty. What they did was wrong. It doesn't mean that it's still not going to happen anymore on any level of football and it doesn't change the fact that for as long as NFL as been around the public was fine with it.

I don't mean to keep quoting you, it's just that you're the only one stating the other side here. It doesn't make sense to quote someone who agrees with me.

I think this is great to punish them and they should get no defense if they did it. The reason - if it's happened for so long, and it was against the rules the whole time, how can you stop it when you catch it without punishment? To me, part of the punishment is losing the defense that others are doing it. I learned that in Kindergarten. Otherwise, you keep marginalizing it. The corollary to this is that everyone else that is caught must have the same punishment and they must continue to look for it. No favorites.

As for the public not caring about it, this is what needs to happen for people to care about it. Yes, most fans will deny their teams are doing it, have no access to proof either way, but what's the alternative? Let this go and you have another three years where this was ignored - supposedly adding more reason to forgive the next guy that gets caught.

As for lifetime ban, yes. I traditionally believe in forgiving those who apologize and letting them back in if there's ways of assurance that they've learned. Certain people with DUIs can learn and never drink and drive again. They can take steps to assure that. The purpose of driving is to get to the destination, not to see if you can get there without hitting people due to alcohol. But in a violent sport, how do you do that? The point of football is to hit hard. You're sending a similar message whether you do it right or wrong. How can you encourage hitting hard when you have a history of encouraging injuries?

 

[Bemular]

The appeals have been heard - Now comes the decision