Grap signed

[skinsdad62]

He you go puppets with the numbers

 

[Sharkinva]

Ok puppets we could have had him for 58 mil guaranteed. . Instead we paid 71,mil , a 3rd round pick and fuller

 

[deanpet21]

@Stymietee @deanpet21

Stafford got a deal that gave him $92M in guarantees, and averaged $27M per year.

Would either of you like to tell me how much he counted against their cap in 2017, and how much he will count in 2018??

not in the first 3 years. Grap got 90 In the first 3 years

 

[deanpet21]

Do I need to search engne you and the other puppets ?? You and the others didn’t believe he was worth market value ? Is that what you are saying ?? Now ?

I never wanted to give him that kind of money. I always said that. I didn't doubt 30m per season was coming. I was the one who brought it up. lol

 

[deanpet21]

@deanpet21 , Grop's deal has 74-75M in guarantees. The 90M figure looks like the 3 year, cash payout, which includes the whole signing bonus. That's not his cap figure.

The only relevant point as to Cousins, is that you could've had him for 20-24M/year over the last 2 offseasons, but b/c you waited this long, he is out your price range. Was KC worth 24M/year last year?--after all, that's what you're paying Alex Smith now. Was KC worth 20-22M/year the year before that? Let's just say, I'm glad the Niners aren't going to make that mistake.

The Niners are overpaying Grop and betting on his future. Sure, he's the #1 paid QB right now, but in a few weeks, he'll #3 (Brees, Cousins), and in 2 years, after Ryan, Rodgers, Wilson, and Prescott all get new deals, It's doubtful he'll even be in the top 5. By the end of the 5 year contract, he'll be lucky to be in the top 10.

I am just going by what was reported. You are speculating on the 74-75m. We don't really know what Alex Smith really got either. If you guys are not in the NFC championship in the next three years its a massive overpay. You could of stayed at #2 and took Mahomes, TRib, or Watson for a lot less money. Soloma Thomas is not worth it over a QB.

 

[Sharkinva]

not in the first 3 years. Grap got 90 In the first 3 years

Stafford got $93.5 in the first three years. His cap number for 2017 $16.5M and for 2018 $26.5M

Average value is fuzzy math. What matters is actual cap cost, and what it would cost should you need to cut the player.

 

[deanpet21]

Stafford got $93.5 in the first three years. His cap number for 2017 $16.5M and for 2018 $26.5M

Average value is fuzzy math. What matters is actual cap cost, and what it would cost should you need to cut the player.

we don't know what alex smith really got. All said and done is going to be a 10m difference between the two.

 

[skinsdad62]

Again puppet you were against Market value for KC ?

 

[deanpet21]

Again puppet you were against Market value for KC ?

not at all. I knew the numbers would get this high. You were hating on everyone who ddint think KC was worth the money considering his play.

I just saw Tandler poll who had 68% Redskins fans likeing the Smith trade.

 

[Sharkinva]

we don't know what alex smith really got. All said and done is going to be a 10m difference between the two.

We know he was set to make $17M before this trade.

Now unless you think he lowered this number, any signing bonus would go on top of this.

To guarantee $71M you figure they counted that $17M in there already.

71-17= 54, so we got to spread $54M over 5 years total Figure 30M in signing bonus divided by 5= $6M a year in prorate bonus.

17 + 6 = 23.

SO as I said, unless they back loaded the deal, I expect him to count no less than $20M against our cap.

By the same token I expect Kirk to count no more than $27M against his new teams cap.


IM confident in my math, how much faith do you have in yours??

@Niner Outlaw Care to throw in your guess, you are fairly good with cap numbers from what i have seen.

 

[deanpet21]

We know he was set to make $17M before this trade.

Now unless you think he lowered this number, any signing bonus would go on top of this.

To guarantee $71M you figure they counted that $17M in there already.

71-17= 54, so we got to spread $54M over 5 years total Figure 30M in signing bonus divided by 5= $6M a year in prorate bonus.

17 + 6 = 23.

SO as I said, unless they back loaded the deal, I expect him to count no less than $20M against our cap.

By the same token I expect Kirk to count no more than $27M against his new teams cap.


IM confident in my math, how much faith do you have in yours??

like niner oulaw said the 90 million is considering other things. Even if your math does come out right. 7m is a good chunk of change against the cap to save. Yes Smith is older but he is as good as or better than KC for less money. Im just guessing but im sure Smiths deal is back loaded b/c of his age.

we wont know until mid March when the real numbers come out. You guys make it sound like its an even swap and its not by no means.

 

[Sharkinva]

like niner oulaw said the 90 million is considering other things. Even if your math does come out right. 7m is a good chunk of change against the cap to save. Yes Smith is older but he is as good as or better than KC for less money. Im just guessing but im sure Smiths deal is back loaded b/c of his age.

we wont know until mid March when the real numbers come out. You guys make it sound like its an even swap and its not by no means.

Again you show lack of understanding.

Back loading contracts on older players is exactly what gets teams into cap trouble to begin with.

If they backloaded this deal, and Smith for what ever reason only plays two years, thats a shit ton of guaranteed money we would have to eat down the road.

And $7M barely got us Pryor and a scrub. But yea, worth starting over with an older QB.

Feeling your Charlie Sheen aintcha Dean.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

not in the first 3 years. Grap got 90 In the first 3 years

That's in cash, not cap. There is a big difference.

Stafford was paid 87M in cash over the first 3 years. But his cap numbers over that period were 16.5M, 26.5M, and 29.5M.

I am just going by what was reported. You are speculating on the 74-75m.

No. You're misunderstanding what you've read. Here, I'll make it easy for you:



Did you notice that the first two talk about "guarantees" and Schefty is talking about cash payout? They are different things.

 

[Stymietee]

[QUOTE="Sharkinva, post: 11249948, member: 5233" By the same token I expect Kirk to count no more than $27M against his new teams cap. [/QUOTE]

Let me ask, based on this number alone, do you agree that the two teams that can absorb this or more without batting an eye are Cleveland and the Jets?

Do you agree that the commonly listed other suitors will have to do some pretty interesting shuffling of players and/or contracts to make that same number fit?

 

[deanpet21]

Again you show lack of understanding.

Back loading contracts on older players is exactly what gets teams into cap trouble to begin with.

If they backloaded this deal, and Smith for what ever reason only plays two years, thats a shit ton of guaranteed money we would have to eat down the road.

And $7M barely got us Pryor and a scrub. But yea, worth starting over with an older QB.

Feeling your Charlie Sheen aintcha Dean.

True but Alex Smit his not starting over we have a good QB to win with

 

[deanpet21]

That's in cash, not cap. There is a big difference.

Stafford was paid 87M in cash over the first 3 years. But his cap numbers over that period were 16.5M, 26.5M, and 29.5M.

No. You're misunderstanding what you've read. Here, I'll make it easy for you:



Did you notice that the first two talk about "guarantees" and Schefty is talking about cash payout? They are different things.

Fine I never saw those Tweets. So Alex smith gmoney was all cash?

 

[deanpet21]

Again you show lack of understanding.

Back loading contracts on older players is exactly what gets teams into cap trouble to begin with.

If they backloaded this deal, and Smith for what ever reason only plays two years, thats a shit ton of guaranteed money we would have to eat down the road.

And $7M barely got us Pryor and a scrub. But yea, worth starting over with an older QB.

Feeling your Charlie Sheen aintcha Dean.

at the time Pryor was a "prized" FA lol

 

[Sharkinva]

By the same token I expect Kirk to count no more than $27M against his new teams cap.

Let me ask, based on this number alone, do you agree that the two teams that can absorb this or more without batting an eye are Cleveland and the Jets?

Do you agree that the commonly listed other suitors will have to do some pretty interesting shuffling of players and/or contracts to make that same number fit?

Of the teams listed, the teams that would have to do some real juggle work would be the Broncos and Cardinals.

BUt you are also assuming Cousins would try and play stickup kid with those teams. I know I know, he did it with the Redskins.

But all the teams listed can make it work. The only reason the Browns are in the conversation is because they COULD outbid all the other teams without blinking. But I dont think he goes to the Browns unless they offer him a deal he simply cant turn down, and by that i mean drastically over pay.

 

[Sharkinva]

at the time Pryor was a "prized" FA lol

Prized Free Agents dont generally have to fall back to a one year prove it deal on the open market. We over paid him.

 

[deanpet21]

Let me ask, based on this number alone, do you agree that the two teams that can absorb this or more without batting an eye are Cleveland and the Jets?

Do you agree that the commonly listed other suitors will have to do some pretty interesting shuffling of players and/or contracts to make that same number fit?

Of the teams listed, the teams that would have to do some real juggle work would be the Broncos and Cardinals.

BUt you are also assuming Cousins would try and play stickup kid with those teams. I know I know, he did it with the Redskins.

But all the teams listed can make it work. The only reason the Browns are in the conversation is because they COULD outbid all the other teams without blinking. But I dont think he goes to the Browns unless they offer him a deal he simply cant turn down, and by that i mean drastically over pay.[/QUOTE]

good point. IF the browns offered a drastic overpay was he going to sign back with the Skins for less money???NO!!!!!!!!!!! Redskins couldn't take that chance this what you don't understand. Ther weren't going let KC take control of this franchise options at QB. That is what I like about the trade.