GDT - San Jose at Florida - Feb 13, 2:00PM

[Cbrower91]

I said it last game and ill say it again, 15 million tied in up in two turds who are paid to score and they arent scoring. That's the issue with the team now, the sharks are getting all kinds of scoring from the bottom 3 lines now its primary scoring has evaporated large in part to Heatley and Thornton going MIA for the last 2 months.

It's amazing the team went on that streak with out those clowns pitching in offensively the entire time. And as bad 3 of the last 4 goals Niemi have been, he needs some help with some goal support..

Bottom line this team will sink or swim with those 2 lazy bums, unless they have some sort of epiphany it doesnt look promising

 

[shrksfn9192]

I said it last game and ill say it again, 15 million tied in up in two turds who are paid to score and they arent scoring. That's the issue with the team now, the sharks are getting all kinds of scoring from the bottom 3 lines now its primary scoring has evaporated large in part to Heatley and Thornton going MIA for the last 2 months.

It's amazing the team went on that streak with out those clowns pitching in offensively the entire time. And as bad 3 of the last 4 goals Niemi have been, he needs some help with some goal support..

Bottom line this team will sink or swim with those 2 lazy bums, unless they have some sort of epiphany it doesnt look promising

Damn right about that, the rest of the team can only do so much without those two contributing. Putting too much on the D and Niemi to win games. It will work for a short stretch, but won't get it done in the PO's if they make it.

 

[shrksfn9192]

Anaheim is finishing off a demolition of Edmonton, so that's the end to a shitty day. At least Dallas lost.

Sad when the fans care more about winning games than do the players.

 

[MacJ88]

If at the end of the season, the Sharks are sitting outside of the top 8 or have another pathetic showing in the playoffs, I have no problem if the team gets blown up and went into rebuild mode. Later Jumbo Jim and Heater. Rebuild the defense and put Stalock in net. I'm so tired of watching these ass clowns skate around like they are just happy to be there. I'd rather watch a team fight and claw and play with urgency and barely squeeze into the 8 seed than watch these bums complacently enter the playoffs and play when they feel like it. So much money is being paid to these guys and they are just horrible. Thornton looks content with losing, he has no fire, that is unacceptable not only coming from a 6-7 million dollar player but from your fucking captain no less! This team is where they are right now because of their star players, the team is underachieving because their stars are underachieving. This team would be in the cellar if it wasn't for Couture. Yeah that's right, if it wasn't for a 21 year old rookie, this team would be scraping the bottom of the barrel or close to it. SAD

 

[sjrules99]

Wait a minute. Some time ago I questioned how much of Marleau's +/- and overall ineffectiveness to that point in the season was due to both Thornton and Heatley's style of play and overall poor play and you ripped my shit for it. Are you starting to see the difference now in Marleau's play when he doesn't have to be the primary defensive forward on a line like he is when he's paired with Thornton?

It just goes to show that patty is rarely capable of creating himself. Of course, I think gretzky could be on jumbo's line and be -3 too.

Right now, pavs is creating even with mitchell and heater on his line. That's impressive in itself, so I don't buy that linemates are the whole cause of trouble. Of course they matter, but patty is in the payrate and echelon of players who should be able to create no matter what and his +/- does reflect his play, particularly earlier in the year rather than the last month or so.

That said, patty has been OK of late. Not great, but good enough and it's been jumbo particularly who has been the killer.

 

[shrksfn9192]

If at the end of the season, the Sharks are sitting outside of the top 8 or have another pathetic showing in the playoffs, I have no problem if the team gets blown up and went into rebuild mode. Later Jumbo Jim and Heater. Rebuild the defense and put Stalock in net. I'm so tired of watching these ass clowns skate around like they are just happy to be there. I'd rather watch a team fight and claw and play with urgency and barely squeeze into the 8 seed than watch these bums complacently enter the playoffs and play when they feel like it. So much money is being paid to these guys and they are just horrible. Thornton looks content with losing, he has no fire, that is unacceptable not only coming from a 6-7 million dollar player but from your fucking captain no less! This team is where they are right now because of their star players, the team is underachieving because their stars are underachieving. This team would be in the cellar if it wasn't for Couture. Yeah that's right, if it wasn't for a 21 year old rookie, this team would be scraping the bottom of the barrel or close to it. SAD

MacJ, I wish the guy pictured under your screenname still had something left and was with the Sharks. We would be seeing better things than the uneven team efforts now. That Game 7 vs. Calgary in 2008 is something never to be forgotten, especially considering how he torched the Flames in such a huge game at his age.

 

[sjrules99]

One interesting note is that at least they arent losing in the same way they did during the losing streak. They are outplaying opponents pretty well and simply choking which is somehow (although very slightly) less painful as watching them get blown away and be down 4-0 in the 1st period. This team is not playing all that badly and if the big guys do wake from their slumber, it could be fun. Jumbo isnt THIS bad. He hasnt been this bad for over a decade. I dunno if he fell off the earth or what, but eventually he might be back?

 

[MacJ88]

Jeremy Roenick was my favorite player growing up, I always loved JR especially once he landed in Philly. My father is from Oak Grove Pennsylvania and Philadelphia sports has always been a part of my life and a lot of my memories of watching hockey come from JR. If Jeremy was on a scoring drought he would make sure that he put a body on everybody, if he was injured and couldn't be as physical as he usually was he would be yelling at his teammates pumping up the bench. JR was a very special player because if he had a weakness on a certain night, he would make up for it by excelling in another part of his game. He was a very skilled player but it was his personality and spirit that made him my favorite player of all time. It's players like that I grew up worshiping and wanting to be like, that's why it's so hard for me to watch and root for guys like Thornton and Heatley. Jumbo and Heater do just enough so you don't write them off, right when you cast them off, they reel you right back in but at the end of the day what you see is what you get. Two players that have all the ability in the world but they lack the personality and the drive that is required to be a champion. JR was far from perfect, he teetered off at the end of his career until he regained his fire again in San Jose but never once was he looked at as a waste of talent or someone who was selling himself short, he laid it out there every night and although he never won a championship he retired knowing that he gave everything he had. Can Joe say that about himself at the end of his career? At this stage, I think not. Just my opinion...

 

[Cmon_WTF]

It just goes to show that patty is rarely capable of creating himself. Of course, I think gretzky could be on jumbo's line and be -3 too.

Right now, pavs is creating even with mitchell and heater on his line. That's impressive in itself, so I don't buy that linemates are the whole cause of trouble. Of course they matter, but patty is in the payrate and echelon of players who should be able to create no matter what and his +/- does reflect his play, particularly earlier in the year rather than the last month or so.

That said, patty has been OK of late. Not great, but good enough and it's been jumbo particularly who has been the killer.

Marleau has always been a support player. No one on the Sharks can create on their own except Thornton but even that ability seems to have left him. The thing with Marleau is is that he's one of the best and most versitile support players in the entire league. Can he create on his own? On occassion, but that's never been and never will be a regular part of his game. The most offensively benificial part to Marleau's game is his ability to create room for other players. He's done that consistantly this year when not on a line with Thornton.

What you fail to see is the +/- stat reflects a lot more on the team around a player than the player themself. Did you know Marleau is a +7 on the year when not paired with Thornton? That speaks volumes to Thornton's effect on Marleau's play.

During thier 9-0-1 stretch Marleau was argubably the best skater on the team. Calling his current play "OK" tells me you are not giving him the credit he deserves for all the little things he's brought to the Sharks over that stretch. Those little things played a huge part in the team going 9-0-1.

 

[KillerVee]

So, what'd I miss? Not much? Ok.

 

[shrksfn9192]

Jeremy Roenick was my favorite player growing up, I always loved JR especially once he landed in Philly. My father is from Oak Grove Pennsylvania and Philadelphia sports has always been a part of my life and a lot of my memories of watching hockey come from JR. If Jeremy was on a scoring drought he would make sure that he put a body on everybody, if he was injured and couldn't be as physical as he usually was he would be yelling at his teammates pumping up the bench. JR was a very special player because if he had a weakness on a certain night, he would make up for it by excelling in another part of his game. He was a very skilled player but it was his personality and spirit that made him my favorite player of all time. It's players like that I grew up worshiping and wanting to be like, that's why it's so hard for me to watch and root for guys like Thornton and Heatley. Jumbo and Heater do just enough so you don't write them off, right when you cast them off, they reel you right back in but at the end of the day what you see is what you get. Two players that have all the ability in the world but they lack the personality and the drive that is required to be a champion. JR was far from perfect, he teetered off at the end of his career until he regained his fire again in San Jose but never once was he looked at as a waste of talent or someone who was selling himself short, he laid it out there every night and although he never won a championship he retired knowing that he gave everything he had. Can Joe say that about himself at the end of his career? At this stage, I think not. Just my opinion...

Agree with you 100% there. Everyone goes through scoring slumps, but when you're not picking up the goals and assists, you should still be engaged physically and defensively without just standing around or making stupid mistakes. Roenick was much more of a complete player than Thornton or Heatley will ever be. The shame of this whole thing is that the Sharks wouldn't have thrown away so many games if those guys had the commitment to be complete players and had more of a fire to win. You can never feel a full sense of confidence in those guys from game to game, or even from shift to shift sometimes.

 

[shrksfn9192]

So, what'd I miss? Not much? Ok.

Just another teeth-grinding, enamel-wearing loss to an opponent who should've been beaten by two goals.

 

[rares]

Just another teeth-grinding, enamel-wearing loss to an opponent who should've been beaten by two goals.

Yeah, more "snatching defeat from teh jaws of victory" type stuff, really.

But enough about that... I just learned about this Ronald Jenkees kid and holy shit, he's awesome:

[youtube]smE-uIljiGo[/youtube]

He's been around for a while but I just somehow been missing out on his genius?

 

[Cbrower91]

One interesting note is that at least they arent losing in the same way they did during the losing streak. They are outplaying opponents pretty well and simply choking which is somehow (although very slightly) less painful as watching them get blown away and be down 4-0 in the 1st period. This team is not playing all that badly and if the big guys do wake from their slumber, it could be fun. Jumbo isnt THIS bad. He hasnt been this bad for over a decade. I dunno if he fell off the earth or what, but eventually he might be back?[/QUOTE]

He's been getting worse for 3 years straight, teams play him tight and he completely loses it. If he get's a chance to stand around and make a pass then all of sudden he looks great.

I've been saying it for atleast the last 3 off season thornton needs to learn how to play while moving his feet, he just isnt adjusting, it doesnt help that Heatley likes to stand around all the way at the top of the circles not giving thornton any options when he is allowed to stand still and move the puck.

Teams just do a simple defense on Thornton now, one man pressures him right away and a second takes away the passing lane behind the first defender, and it forces Thornton into his normal break out pass going the other way.

If he moved his feet mixed up shot with pass then it would be a different thing for teams to defend, but he takes himself out of the play as a shooting threat by sitting at the boards and sitting behind the net.

It wont change until he changes his game, and for 3 years now he has shown no intent on doing it

 

[sjrules99]

kork, it sure looks that way right now. But still he put up 86 pts and +16, then 89 pts and +17 last year. Did he suddenly fall to being a major minus player who puts up 60-70 pts in the offseason? Did teams suddenly figure it out in his 13th year in the league and 6th since the lockout? it's just weird... I think the C on the jersey might have something to do with it but it's strange to think that such a consistent producer for the last decade suddenly lost it.

patty has been extremely up and down his whole career, so I would expect something like this from him. Pavs too is streaky so it would make sense there too. But jumbo was such a consistent producer that it's strange...

Heater too hasnt had a sub 39 goal season since 2003-4 after the accident and really hasnt had a sub 30 full season since his rookie year. Suddenly, he is on pace for just 27 goals? Did he suddenly forget how to score? Lazy as he is, he has always potted his goals share, but this year is an anomaly for him and jumbo. The sharks are only 3 or 4 straight wins from being the #3 seed, so all is definitely not lost, but those two better turn it around and fast...

 

[sjrules99]

by the way, the reason I am all over Tmac is because he is clearly not getting the most out of his guys. Look at Trotz in nashville...

1) he turned marcel Goc into a legit 30+ pt third liner.
2) He made sergei kostitsyn into a 50 pt top 6 forward
3) he has lost a virtual all-star team the last few years and still gets great production from no-names:lombardi, sullivan injuries. Timmonen, Hartnell to philly. hamhuis to van. radulov to russia, Zidlicky to minny....
4) Seemingly every player who comes out of trotz' system is a hard nosed, gritty, responsible character guy.

If tmac, RW, or Sutter had half that motivation ability, the sharks would be cup winners by now, or at leat have made the finals. A coach's job is to get the most from his guys, and tmac simply is not doing it.

 

[Cbrower91]

Probably because all those players know nashville is their last chance to show they can sill play in this league. That being said Goc, would've beend a 30 to 40 pnt guy on san jose of given the ice time he is getting in nashville.

I think cmon and I are the only two that thought that of him

 

[rares]

I was also always a fan of Goc... I knew he'd do well if he was ever given the chance.

Unlike fuckups like Mitchell and McGinn who are a dime a dozen and completely fucking useless.

 

[SJVP408]

by the way, the reason I am all over Tmac is because he is clearly not getting the most out of his guys. Look at Trotz in nashville...

1) he turned marcel Goc into a legit 30+ pt third liner.
2) He made sergei kostitsyn into a 50 pt top 6 forward
3) he has lost a virtual all-star team the last few years and still gets great production from no-names:lombardi, sullivan injuries. Timmonen, Hartnell to philly. hamhuis to van. radulov to russia, Zidlicky to minny....
4) Seemingly every player who comes out of trotz' system is a hard nosed, gritty, responsible character guy.

If tmac, RW, or Sutter had half that motivation ability, the sharks would be cup winners by now, or at leat have made the finals. A coach's job is to get the most from his guys, and tmac simply is not doing it.

RWil couldn't get this roster to play hard game in and game out and now Tmac couldn't either. It wouldn't be too far fetched to say that the Sharks just don't play hard all the time, no matter who the coach is. It's a culture thing, not X's and O's, not a lack of rah rah speeches. Not a lack of something to play for. Just an ingrained train of thought that it's okay to slack off here and there as long as you get it together when there's a 6 game losing streak.

 

[shrksfn9192]

RWil couldn't get this roster to play hard game in and game out and now Tmac couldn't either. It wouldn't be too far fetched to say that the Sharks just don't play hard all the time, no matter who the coach is. It's a culture thing, not X's and O's, not a lack of rah rah speeches. Not a lack of something to play for. Just an ingrained train of thought that it's okay to slack off here and there as long as you get it together when there's a 6 game losing streak.

The problem falls on Wilson and the front office for putting this roster together. The culture of laziness and not working hard enough to win will finally change when the Big 3 is gone and you have guys who relish every shift out there, similar to a team like Nashville.