GDT - San Jose at Florida - Feb 13, 2:00PM

[SJVP408]

The problem falls on Wilson and the front office for putting this roster together. The culture of laziness and not working hard enough to win will finally change when the Big 3 is gone and you have guys who relish every shift out there, similar to a team like Nashville.

A blue collar attitude with the skill this roster has would take it very far. Perhaps giving Clowe the C would have helped to shift the culture towards that direction. Oh well.

 

[sjrules99]

Very few people here ever thought Goc would be a legit top 9 forward capable of potting 20-ish goals a year. You may be right that you always thought that of him, but it's easy to look back...

Also, the current sharks have had a total of 2 coaches. Grandpa ron who clearly shows that he does not know how to handle players and get much from them (as seen in his toronto disaster years as well as missing POs in half his seasons and advancing to the cup once and zero championships) and Tmac, an assistant coach who had it easy behind a detroit bench that featured babcock and front office guys like holland and bowman, not to mention class players like lidstrom, datsyuk, holmstrom and others who learned under the likes of scotty bowman, the undeniable best coach in modern NHL history (arguably ever).

Now tmac has a tougher task with guys who arent multiple cup winners on the roster. He's getting very little from them, just as grandpa didnt get the best from his guys when it mattered. They have completely different coaching styles, but neither seems effective with this group. Unfortunately the big 3 are signed for 3 more years along with boyle and pavs, so I think the players are what they are, and they need a coach that can get the best from them.

 

[Stackem]

Yeah, more "snatching defeat from teh jaws of victory" type stuff, really.

But enough about that... I just learned about this Ronald Jenkees kid and holy shit, he's awesome:

[youtube]smE-uIljiGo[/youtube]

He's been around for a while but I just somehow been missing out on his genius?

God damn.. this kid is a bad ass.. thanks for the link.

And agree with all the usual Joe/Heater bashing.

BTW.. its not TMAC's fault. Thornton is a straight up coach killer...

 

[sjrules99]

God damn.. this kid is a bad ass.. thanks for the link.

And agree with all the usual Joe/Heater bashing.

BTW.. its not TMAC's fault. Thornton is a straight up coach killer...

I'd agree if it was just jumbo. But heater is also having a career bad season, patty is also having a terrible year. Pickles has not developed under tmac. Seto is next to worthless.

You're telling me that ALL of these guys are lazy useless bums who would stink no matter who was coach? No way.... None of them are appear really all too motivated but the only common denominator is that todd cant get 'em going.

 

[Stackem]

I'd agree if it was just jumbo. But heater is also having a career bad season, patty is also having a terrible year. Pickles has not developed under tmac. Seto is next to worthless.

You're telling me that ALL of these guys are lazy useless bums who would stink no matter who was coach? No way.... None of them are appear really all too motivated but the only common denominator is that todd cant get 'em going.

Ok. I'll modify my statement to say tmac has some burden to bare here as the coach of the team (he's not perfect), but, and its a big but, he's not the root of the problem. He is not responsible for personnel decisions, bad contracts, horrible trades, lazy ass players, or a fundamentally flawed belief that Thornton, Heater, and Paddy can be the core of a championship team. He can of course become the fall guy for this mess and I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. But I think that would be misplacing the blame that should fall on Doug and Thornton.

In my whiskey induced dream world, Doug is GM of Anaheim where he hands out crap contracts to his hearts content. He of course trades for Jumbo/Heater/Huskins and Walin in exchange for a bevvy of first round picks. Three years later, a re-invented hard working, tough as nails Sharks team wins the cup in a triple overtime game 7 as the 8th seed. I win some crazy fan contest and get to drink from the actual cup... sweet.. Oh, and my wife tells me she's hot for Kim Kardashian and some how swings a threesome. Sounds good.. Woot!

 

[shrksfn9192]

Ok. I'll modify my statement to say tmac has some burden to bare here as the coach of the team (he's not perfect), but, and its a big but, he's not the root of the problem. He is not responsible for personnel decisions, bad contracts, horrible trades, lazy ass players, or a fundamentally flawed belief that Thornton, Heater, and Paddy can be the core of a championship team. He can of course become the fall guy for this mess and I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. But I think that would be misplacing the blame that should fall on Doug and Thornton.

In my whiskey induced dream world, Doug is GM of Anaheim where he hands out crap contracts to his hearts content. He of course trades for Jumbo/Heater/Huskins and Walin in exchange for a bevvy of first round picks. Three years later, a re-invented hard working, tough as nails Sharks team wins the cup in a triple overtime game 7 as the 8th seed. I win some crazy fan contest and get to drink from the actual cup... sweet.. Oh, and my wife tells me she's hot for Kim Kardashian and some how swings a threesome. Sounds good.. Woot!

Man, that's a sensory overload of goodies right there. Would be extremely depressed to wake up from that dream and have to come back to reality.

The front office is the main problem, followed by the players and then the coaching staff. Mind-boggling to think that Wilson actually believes all the pieces are in place with this roster with no real changes necessary.

 

[shrksfn9192]

The maddening thing about Thornton is that there are times when he's really into the game and playing like a captain, like a big clear he had from in front of the net during one of Florida's 2nd period PP's. Then, when he's the only fresh skater out there late in the 3rd, he fails to get the puck out of the zone and Garrison finally scores on his third shot for the GW goal.

Interesting that Thornton has previously said he would not sign a long-term deal. Says a lot right there.

 

[sjrules99]

I'm not a huge fan of jumbo (though he sure can dominate a game unlike any shark in history), but his effort along with that of heater, patty and somewhat seto, which has really been yearlong needs to be addressed. Have any of you seen anything Tmac has done? benching? public condemnation? reducing ice time? taking off the top PP unit? pairing with bottom liners like mayers?

No. None of those things. todd continues to give heater, jumbo and patty the #1,2,3 most ice among forwards. He continues to give those 3 the top PP time as well. He does not reward guys like clowe and couture who have been the among the best all year with anywhere near as much ice (They get roughly 2 mins less per game). And wellwood and eager have been very solid since coming yet they average 14 and under 10 mins/game respectively.

Simply put, under Todd, players are neither punished for poor effort nor much rewarded for good effort. So why try harder?

 

[caliraftdude]

Yeah, more "snatching defeat from teh jaws of victory" type stuff, really.
[youtube]smE-uIljiGo[/youtube]
He's been around for a while but I just somehow been missing out on his genius?

Interesting jam...

Having grown up at the same time, I still find him utterly amazing - yet his story is perhaps unparalleled in its saddness:


On the Sharks: They had a nice run there and were bound to give up a little ground as they exhaled. While the players are not playing to potential, I see some real management issues I just dont get. Trying to get Jumbo/Patty to be an on-ice presence and leader is like pushing a rope up a hill... and the results have been consistent. Its like expecting Hejduk to be outspoken and drop the gloves... its not really what he does.

We have built a team around generally passive top guys and it comes as a surprise when we don't walk into an arena at playoff time and belt the opposition in the groin.

 

[sjrules99]

hahaha... Yeah, maybe you guys are right... Maybe we need more ex-nashville guys like nichol. Fiddler, upshall, hartnell, nichol, are all such hard working guys. Maybe the sharks just need more of those?

Of course, it's not like this season is over. The sharks are all of 3 points out of the 3rd seed and we know they can reel off several in a row and it is very possible that jumbo and heater will get hot.

Look at the last 10-20 games of the season. multiple games against all 4 division rivals. The sharks will decide for themselves if they take the division and if they slip into that 3rd seed, then they wont have to face either detroit or vancouver until the 2nd round and maybe not until the 3rd if one of them is upset early (also very possible as the 7 or 8 seeds this year in the west are likely to be actual legit contenders). Todd has about 3 weeks to find the right button to push to light up those two guys. Pair jumbo with clowe and couture to show what hard work looks like? and keep heater with pavelski and maybe patty since whoever is paired with pavs right now seems to find success? Whatever Todd does with lines or speeches or whatever, his job is to figure out how to get production at both ends from his best guys.

Personally, I dont really care even if they are the 8 seed. The expectations for me are the same as they were last year, the year before and so on. if you gotta go through detroit and vancouver (who is so injured its sad) to get to the cup eventually, then it doesnt matter the seeding. So if they get in, it's anyone's game from there despite the rockier path.

Maybe this is the hockey version of 'torture'?

 

[filosofy29]

Maybe this is the hockey version of 'torture'?

I like where your heads at Rules, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[sjrules99]

Maybe if dougie goes after guys like Adam foote, nolan, or rolston: disregarded vets with heart who had a past glory time and would look like terrible useless overpaid acquisitions at the time.

Somehow, I'm just not sure dougie has the skill to stink so masterfully at GM and yet win a championship on pure luck ala sabean.

However, you never do know... Never forget the quacks/edmonton WCF on 2006 with the 8 seeded oilers emerging as conference champs. or 6th seeded calgary emerging in 2004. Anything is possible once you're in...

 

[rares]

Having grown up at the same time, I still find him utterly amazing - yet his story is perhaps unparalleled in its saddness:

Wow, sad indeed... I'm a little younger I guess so had never heard of him but just watched a video on some story ABC News (I think?) did back in 2008 and ughh.. poor guy. Oh well; thanks for sharing.