Game Strategy / Stupid Play Calling / Garrett / Linehan

[es4m11]

Well, I do agree with you there as we sit here today...but, just maybe, Garrett is still improving and when all is said and done he is seen as the equal to all, or at least a few of those guys. One day long ago BB was just a guy that failed miserably in Cleveland...look at him now...

Certainly possible. Although progress has been very slow and incremental, Garrett is trending in the right direction.

 

[es4m11]

I wouldn't and couldn't go that far...not for the Dallas gig

and sorry...Malone to Jordan isn't the same unless we are focused in on only little bill

I would - difference of opinion I suppose.

And I only referenced Jordan and Malone to illustrate that just because someone may win an award over someone else does not make them inherently better. I was not attempting to compare talent, levels of dominance, etc.

 

[es4m11]

Outside of BB, JG is right there with any of those guys IMO

No way does Garrett stack up to Harbaugh, and probably not Reid either. Care to make the argument? Harbaugh's resume is pretty exceptional. I will go so far as to say Harbaugh is second to only Belechik in terms of NFL head coaches - I just happen to like Zimmer a little more, possibly due to Cowboy bias.

Harbaugh
80-55 career record in the regular season - .593%
10-5 in the playoffs - .666%
Has been to the playoffs 6 times in 8 full seasons, having won at least 1 game every appearance
Super Bowl Champion, AFC Champion, 2x AFC North Champion

Reid
166-112-1 regular season - .597%
11-11 playoffs - .500%
Has 11 playoff appearances in 18 full seasons
NFC Champion, 7x NFC East Champion

Garrett
51-44 regular season - .537%
1-1 playoffs - .500%
Has been to playoffs 1 time in 6 full seasons
NFC East Champion

One of these guys does not belong...

You can make an argument for the other guys, I suppose, but not Harbaugh and Reid.

 

[jarntt]

No way does Garrett stack up to Harbaugh, and probably not Reid either. Care to make the argument? Harbaugh's resume is pretty exceptional. I will go so far as to say Harbaugh is second to only Belechik in terms of NFL head coaches - I just happen to like Zimmer a little more, possibly due to Cowboy bias.

Harbaugh
80-55 career record in the regular season - .593%
10-5 in the playoffs - .666%
Has been to the playoffs 6 times in 8 full seasons, having won at least 1 game every appearance
Super Bowl Champion, AFC Champion, 2x AFC North Champion

Reid
166-112-1 regular season - .597%
11-11 playoffs - .500%
Has 11 playoff appearances in 18 full seasons
NFC Champion, 7x NFC East Champion

Garrett
51-44 regular season - .537%
1-1 playoffs - .500%
Has been to playoffs 1 time in 6 full seasons
NFC East Champion

One of these guys does not belong...

You can make an argument for the other guys, I suppose, but not Harbaugh and Reid.

So you are going to use stats to make the case for Harbaugh and Reid being ahead of Garrett, but you have Zimmer ahead of all three

 

[es4m11]

So you are going to use stats to make the case for Harbaugh and Reid being ahead of Garrett, but you have Zimmer ahead of all three

Personal opinion. Did you read the whole post?

The other guys don't have enough of an established track record for me to say definitively they are better, although I do believe they are. Small sample sizes to this point. Although Arians is building a pretty strong resume so far with a .670 win % and 2x coach of the year.

 

[jarntt]

I think Garrett is on the upswing so I don't think you can use his career as a way to compare Garrett of today with other coaches. I think Garrett today is better than Garrett a few years ago. I also think Garrett wasn't very good last year and a big part of why we lost a lot of those games. He hamstrung his QBs and until the very end of the year all but guaranteed most of those losses. Now he is Vince Lombardi since we are doing well. I guess my point is the talent on the field can make the coach look better or worse than he really is. There is only so much a coach can do. Garrett still does things every week that make me want to rip my eyes out. But as stated many times in this thread by all of us he gets his team ready to play. That is one of the most important things a coach can do IMO. Top 5??? not IMO, but I don't know how to put together a list since every situation is unique. I'm happy with him right now and don't get how you can even try to compare different coaches on different teams. Are Arians and Rivera all of a sudden idiots? Are Quinn and Garrett geniuses??? I can't condone stats or records as the way to judge coaches...

 

[jarntt]

Personal opinion. Did you read the whole post?

Yes, I did. That's why I brought it up. You stuck it in there so it didn't kill your argument against Garrett. Yet you asked another poster to make his argument as if he needed something concrete. Sorry, but personal opinion holds no weight other than with yourself and not sure why you would then question someone else's personal opinion.

 

[es4m11]

Yes, I did. That's why I brought it up. You stuck it in there so it didn't kill your argument against Garrett. Yet you asked another poster to make his argument as if he needed something concrete. Sorry, but personal opinion holds no weight other than with yourself and not sure why you would then question someone else's personal opinion.

Kill my argument with Garrett? I didn't bother to post the stats, because I don't care to type it all out. Feel free to look it all up if you want - they all have superior track records to Garrett.

UK's opinion is his own. He thinks I am wrong, I think he is wrong. No need for you to try and police the discussion - we're both grown ups, I think we will be okay.

 

[UK Cowboy]

No way does Garrett stack up to Harbaugh, and probably not Reid either. Care to make the argument? Harbaugh's resume is pretty exceptional. I will go so far as to say Harbaugh is second to only Belechik in terms of NFL head coaches - I just happen to like Zimmer a little more, possibly due to Cowboy bias.

Harbaugh
80-55 career record in the regular season - .593%
10-5 in the playoffs - .666%
Has been to the playoffs 6 times in 8 full seasons, having won at least 1 game every appearance
Super Bowl Champion, AFC Champion, 2x AFC North Champion

Reid
166-112-1 regular season - .597%
11-11 playoffs - .500%
Has 11 playoff appearances in 18 full seasons
NFC Champion, 7x NFC East Champion

Garrett
51-44 regular season - .537%
1-1 playoffs - .500%
Has been to playoffs 1 time in 6 full seasons
NFC East Champion

One of these guys does not belong...

You can make an argument for the other guys, I suppose, but not Harbaugh and Reid.

I'll make that argument all day apples to apples. Harbaugh has, what, 2 more years as HC and Reid 12? Harbaugh also had the best GM in the NFL and Garrett has had Jerry. Garrett has a winning record, one of the most talented YOUNG teams in the league, Stephen Jones calling the shots and Jerry bankrolling it. Check back when the tenures are the same and see how that works out for ya

 

[es4m11]

I'll make that argument all day apples to apples. Harbaugh has, what, 2 more years as HC and Reid 12? Harbaugh also had the best GM in the NFL and Garrett has had Jerry. Garrett has a winning record, one of the most talented YOUNG teams in the league, Stephen Jones calling the shots and Jerry bankrolling it. Check back when the tenures are the same and see how that works out for ya

Harbaugh has been head coach exactly 2 more seasons than Garrett, and has 5 more playoff appearances. I don't get your point here.

Garrett can't cry foul when it comes to talent. He has had many good players. Came into a team with a franchise QB and a lot of talent around him. Harbaugh drafted and groomed Flacco from D2 to Super Bowl Champion.

Reid just wins. Maybe can't win the big ones, but Garrett hasn't either, to this point.

 

[jarntt]

Kill my argument with Garrett? I didn't bother to post the stats, because I don't care to type it all out. Feel free to look it all up if you want - they all have superior track records to Garrett.

UK's opinion is his own. He thinks I am wrong, I think he is wrong. No need for you to try and police the discussion - we're both grown ups, I think we will be okay.

Don't be an idiot. It's a public discussion. Forget it. you should hold the discussion via PM.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Harbaugh has been head coach exactly 2 more seasons than Garrett, and has 5 more playoff appearances. I don't get your point here.

You don't think Harbaugh had a far better team and GM when he came into the League? You want apples to apples, post the the 15 best defensive players Harbaugh has coached and then post the 15 best Garrett has had. We are just starting to see what Garrett can do with a full deck with Stephen calling the shots. Harbaugh started out with a team Ozzie Newsome created. JG took over one Jerry created.

 

[es4m11]

Don't be an idiot. It's a public discussion. Forget it. you should hold the discussion via PM.

I'm being an idiot? Because you feel I didn't explain myself well enough, at least as far as your concerned? LOL

My argument holds water, yours is based on what might happen. You act as though Garrett is the only coach improving. Surely you can see that based on where we are at today, with the exception of Zimmer, Garrett has not reached the level of accomplishment that the others mentioned have. Anything beyond today is pure speculation. And don't give me a load of shit about how Jerry this, and Dallas that... All of these situations are unique and present their own challenges, as Cowboy fans we are just not as likely to be plugged into the troubles of other franchises as we are with Dallas.

If you want to say that guys like Zimmer, Arians, and Rivera don't have large enough sample sizes to definitively say they are better, that is fine - I even agree to an extent. But if you want to say they are better, give an argument, that is why we are here. So far you guys are using nothing but opinions, where as I am trying to have a factual, logic based discussion.

 

[es4m11]

You don't think Harbaugh had a far better team and GM when he came into the League? You want apples to apples, post the the 15 best defensive players Harbaugh has coached and then post the 15 best Garrett has had. We are just starting to see what Garrett can do with a full deck with Stephen calling the shots. Harbaugh started out with a team Ozzie Newsome created. JG took over one Jerry created.

By that logic we should knock Belechik down a peg or two - I mean he has only had the best QB ever, practically his entire time with the Patriots.

Harbaugh had much more talent on defense, sure. Garrett has had much more talent on offense.

 

[PDay8810]

I'll stay with my original opinion stated here.

I think Garrett wins the coach of the year this year should his team retain the top seed in the NFC

 

[es4m11]

I'll stay with my original opinion stated here.

I think Garrett wins the coach of the year this year should his team retain the top seed in the NFC

I think there is a very good shot of that happening. The rest of the schedule is looking pretty friendly - especially with Big Ben hobbled, the Ravens are beat up and Minnesota looking more pedestrian by the week.

 

[jarntt]

I'm being an idiot? Because you feel I didn't explain myself well enough, at least as far as your concerned? LOL

My argument holds water, yours is based on what might happen. You act as though Garrett is the only coach improving. Surely you can see that based on where we are at today, with the exception of Zimmer, Garrett has not reached the level of accomplishment that the others mentioned have. Anything beyond today is pure speculation. And don't give me a load of shit about how Jerry this, and Dallas that... All of these situations are unique and present their own challenges, as Cowboy fans we are just not as likely to be plugged into the troubles of other franchises as we are with Dallas.

If you want to say that guys like Zimmer, Arians, and Rivera don't have large enough sample sizes to definitively say they are better, that is fine - I even agree to an extent. But if you want to say they are better, give an argument, that is why we are here. So far you guys are using nothing but opinions, where as I am trying to have a factual, logic based discussion.

No you were an idiot with this comment:
"No need for you to try and police the discussion - we're both grown ups, I think we will be okay."

I would have thought this statement would have made that clear
"It's a public discussion. Forget it. you should hold the discussion via PM."

I have no problem with you thinking Garrett isn't better than those guys and even said myself I wouldn't put him top 5 and that I think he is flawed. I agree wit ha lot of what you said - just not he use of stats. I could care less what your thoughts on Garrett are other than the fact that it is a cowboy discussion. You are entitled to your opinion just like the rest of us. Same as when people think Romo should start or Player X is better than player Y. I am not here to tell people what THEIR opinions should be, simply to talk about them and compare and contrast to my own which is what I was doing

 

[PDay8810]

good thread....sharing of opinions and all

thanks to star for little to no contribution.
Now if you just read the other opinions stated here, you'd have more of a football clue than ever before

 

[es4m11]

No you were an idiot with this comment:
"No need for you to try and police the discussion - we're both grown ups, I think we will be okay."

I would have thought this statement would have made that clear
"It's a public discussion. Forget it. you should hold the discussion via PM."

I have no problem with you thinking Garrett isn't better than those guys and even said myself I wouldn't put him top 5 and that I think he is flawed. I agree wit ha lot of what you said - just not he use of stats. I could care less what your thoughts on Garrett are other than the fact that it is a cowboy discussion. You are entitled to your opinion just like the rest of us. Same as when people think Romo should start or Player X is better than player Y. I am not here to tell people what THEIR opinions should be, simply to talk about them and compare and contrast to my own which is what I was doing

A public discussion, yes. My comment in question was directly responding to a direct quote. So you're approval was not necessary. Thanks.

I don't believe I told him what his opinion should be, I made my case why I believe his was wrong, and asked him to defend his position.

 

[jarntt]

A public discussion, yes. My comment in question was directly responding to a direct quote. So you're approval was not necessary. Thanks.

Again. Acting as if I felt my approval was necessary instead of the reality of me joining in a discussion on a public board is moronic.