Future Cap Planning - Trades and Releases 2015

[Old Lion]

JJ Watt would be far and away the #1 defensive player for me. 31 sacks, 38 stuffs, 23 passes defensed, 8 forced fumbles -- averaging 80 tackles the last two years as a DE is sick. The guy is an absolute beast.

The rest are opinion based and could be slotted anywhere in the 2-5 range.

Robert Quinn -- 23 years old -- 19 sacks to go along with 8 forced fumbles last year. This guy is going to be a stud for St Louis for a long time.

Luke Kuechly -- another youngster (23 i believe) and the man in the middle for one of the best defenses in the league. He is a tackling machine and excels against the run and pass.

Richard Sherman -- He gives me a headache listening to him talk, but the guy backs it up on the field. Led the NFL in interceptions this past year, even though many teams didn't even throw his way.

The last spot could be any number of players -- NaVarro Bowman, LaVante David, Paul Puslozny (sp), Greg Hardy, etc.

I have an infinity for shutdown CBs, as they can completely take a player out of the game and make life much easier on the defense and in today's pass happy NFL -- they are few and far between. So to round out my top 5 -- I'd probably go with Patrick Peterson.

Nice list. Probably have to throw Geno Atkins in there too.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Nice list. Probably have to throw Geno Atkins in there too.

I would put Atkins and Suh in the same range -- the 10-15 spot. Gerald McCoy would be there too with those guys.

 

[lionstop1]

Thats a good list. Is Bowman better than Willis?

 

[gandydancer]

Thats a good list. Is Bowman better than Willis?

At this point in Willis' career, yes... IMO

 

[Naughtymax]

JJ Watt would be far and away the #1 defensive player for me. 31 sacks, 38 stuffs, 23 passes defensed, 8 forced fumbles -- averaging 80 tackles the last two years as a DE is sick. The guy is an absolute beast.

The rest are opinion based and could be slotted anywhere in the 2-5 range.

Robert Quinn -- 23 years old -- 19 sacks to go along with 8 forced fumbles last year. This guy is going to be a stud for St Louis for a long time.

Luke Kuechly -- another youngster (23 i believe) and the man in the middle for one of the best defenses in the league. He is a tackling machine and excels against the run and pass.

Richard Sherman -- He gives me a headache listening to him talk, but the guy backs it up on the field. Led the NFL in interceptions this past year, even though many teams didn't even throw his way.

The last spot could be any number of players -- NaVarro Bowman, LaVante David, Paul Puslozny (sp), Greg Hardy, etc.

I have an infinity for shutdown CBs, as they can completely take a player out of the game and make life much easier on the defense and in today's pass happy NFL -- they are few and far between. So to round out my top 5 -- I'd probably go with Patrick Peterson.

Close for me, but I have to put Patrick Peterson in there too over Kuechly, and I'll take Suh as fifth. He is a monster if he had a better supporting cast.

 

[Naughtymax]

What is Suh worth and what will teams pay for him? Think the Rams would part with pick 2 or 13?

The Rams don't want him - too expensive and they have plenty of DL already. We need to look at teams with $20MM of cap space, which are Jacksonville, the Jets, the Browns, and, gawd help me, the Steelers. Suh will definitely take a 'win now' team a lot closer than their first round pick, so that's the Jets just because they play in New York, and maybe the Browns if they're too dumb to realize they need their cap money to lock up Haden and their other skilled players.

 

[Thruthefog]

I'm curious to see who you feel is the top 5 defensive players in the NFL are.

Watt and Suh. Lots of good ones behind them. But I'll tell you this. Not one of the five are in the back seven.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Column: Trading Ndamukong Suh financially possible, but would go against Detroit Lions' win-now mantra | MLive.com

But even if the Lions find that hypothetical buyer, the biggest problem would be replacing the team's top talent on an already average defense. That's a serious issue for a team trying to convince itself it can win now.

I feel confident suggesting there isn't a defensive tackle in the draft who will provide the Lions with the 72 quarterback disruptions Suh generated in 2013. Given only 13 interior linemen had at least half that many last season, Detroit would be fortunate to get 50 percent production from a replacement.

Suh is a rare talent. You don't give that away in the NFL. If the Lions were to trade him, it would be a significant blow to the team's stated desire to win now.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

^^^ And the worst case scenario is if Suh doesn't extend with Detroit and walks after this year, you won't get anything more than a 3rd round comp pick out of him until 2016..


this from that same article;


The best case for the Lions is a team offers a second-round pick or a chance to move up a few spots in the first round from Detroit's current No. 10 slot. The Raiders, holding the fifth pick and enough cap space to take on Suh, could work.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Watt and Suh. Lots of good ones behind them. But I'll tell you this. Not one of the five are in the back seven.

I just can't put Watt and Suh in the same breath with each other. Watt is an absolute monster on the DL. Stuffing the run, knocking down passes, forcing fumbles, getting sacks. All while offenses were scheming the same way they do against Suh to try and limit his contributions.

Here is a serious question -- If Detroit was offered Patrick Peterson or Richard Sherman straight up for Suh. You would turn that down?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The best case for the Lions is a team offers a second-round pick or a chance to move up a few spots in the first round from Detroit's current No. 10 slot. The Raiders, holding the fifth pick and enough cap space to take on Suh, could work.

Suh and the 10th pick to move up 5 spots wouldn't make any sense to me. They are on the books for 19 million if they trade him or keep him. Moving up 5 spots isn't going to change much of anything, other than severely depleting our defensive line, to get a pick the front office would probably use on a WR.

 

[lionstop1]

Yeah, moving up to 5 for Suh wouldn't be good. Teams would probably jump if Detroit asks for a 2nd or low 1st.

 

[Thruthefog]

I just can't put Watt and Suh in the same breath with each other. Watt is an absolute monster on the DL. Stuffing the run, knocking down passes, forcing fumbles, getting sacks. All while offenses were scheming the same way they do against Suh to try and limit his contributions.

Here is a serious question -- If Detroit was offered Patrick Peterson or Richard Sherman straight up for Suh. You would turn that down?

First, I doubt that Watt has ever been triple teamed.

And to answer your question, I would laugh in their face.

 

[gandydancer]

I would take that trade. Guys who can shutdown 1/2 or 1/3 of the field, means a middle of road DT becomes better. Strong back 7 make the stats for DL go up, not the other way around. Lions have proved that.

Now I would rather still have Suh. I do see him as odd man out on the big contracts boys. CJ will retire a Lion and Smitty's boy is here to stay also...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

First, I doubt that Watt has ever been triple teamed.

And to answer your question, I would laugh in their face.

Yes -- NFL teams are single blocking JJ Watt, who was the defensive player of the year in the 2012-2013 season, but they are triple teaming Suh.

Here is a stat line I will give you comparing the two players:

Suh 23 stuffs, 12 passes defensed, 27.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries
Watt 23 stuffs, 16 passes defensed, 20.5 scaks, 4 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries

Suh looks like the better player if you look at this stat, until I mention, Suh's stats are his totals for his career, while Watt's stats are for only one season.

So in one season -- Watt had as many stuffs as Suh has had in 4. Watt has had 4 more passes defensed in one season than Suh has had in 4. Suh has 7 more sacks in 46 more games, and Watt has forced twice as many fumbles and has twice as many fumbles recoveries in one season, than Suh has in 4 years.

Laughing in the face of Arizona or Seattle over a trade offer like I mentioned is something you won't have to worry about. There is ZERO chance either team would trade Sherman or Peterson for Suh. As a matter of fact -- no team would trade a shutdown CB for a DT, unless we are talking about Alan Page or Mean Joe Greene's era, but definitely not in today's NFL.

 

[Microwahevo]

Laughing in the face of Arizona or Seattle over a trade offer like I mentioned is something you won't have to worry about. There is ZERO chance either team would trade Sherman or Peterson for Suh.

Then why even ask the question wanting him to respond?

Your opinion doesn't make his wrong.

 

[Microwahevo]

Suh looks like the better player if you look at this stat, until I mention, Suh's stats are his totals for his career, while Watt's stats are for only one season.

Yeah, but what would Watt's look like if he was triple teamed and doubled teamed on a consistent basis and from all different angles like Suh is? That's rhetorical btw.

I'm not downplaying Watt's awesomeness, bc he's really fucking awesome. But you seem to be downplaying Suh's.

 

[gandydancer]

Laughing in the face of Arizona or Seattle over a trade offer like I mentioned is something you won't have to worry about. There is ZERO chance either team would trade Sherman or Peterson for Suh. As a matter of fact -- no team would trade a shutdown CB for a DT, unless we are talking about Alan Page or Mean Joe Greene's era, but definitely not in today's NFL.

Revis was traded last season, albeit for picks. Really can't say no GM would take the bait of Suh for a shutdown CB. I could have seen that happen last year. The reason it would not of happened was money was behind whole trade and getting SUh's contract would have been no different.

When you have teams like Oakland any trade is possible.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Revis was traded last season, albeit for picks

Revis was traded after tearing his ACL. I supposed I should have said, no healthy shutdown CB is going to be traded for a DT.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yeah, but what would Watt's look like if he was triple teamed and doubled teamed on a consistent basis and from all different angles like Suh is? That's rhetorical btw.

You honestly think teams are consistently lining straight up one on one with Watt? Why is that Lions fans seem to think the only players who get double teamed play for the Lions?

When Watt had the 20.5 sacks -- 12 of them he was lined up as the left defensive tackle in a 4-3 set and 6 of the 12, he beat a double team to get the sack.

Look -- I love Suh. I don't want to see him on another team, but it is almost impossible to justify giving him a contract that would make him the highest paid defensive player. Highest paid DT, I'm fine with. Paying him 30-40% higher than Geno Atkins is crazy though.

I think Suh is in the top 10-15 defensive players in the NFL -- I just don't see how he could be put in the same category of a guy younger, who has absolutely dominated games the last two years, be it with sacks, stuffing the run, knocking down passes or forcing fumbles.