ESPN 980's Chris Russell On Redskins Safeties

[Caliskinsfan]

Aaaaaaaand back to safeties...

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Skinsdad... I agree with you that we are looking at a 4-6 win season. My line of thinking on this is not about wins and losses. Its about accurately assesing the team going forward. I admit we need depth at the OLB spot, and could actually use a starter. Mythinking remains however that the best thing for the team is to fix the line. Now we have swung and missed on multiple 3-7tyh round O-line prospects over the years. Actually invest in the line, ad worst case even if we come out knowing for sure, all our QBs are junk... you wont be asking the question is it a matter of the Qbs being bad, or does the line still suck. A relatively young talented O-line to me trumps another pass rusher at this point. And if we are talking the difference of 3 or 4 spots on the pick, Im perfectly fine with that. And yes that is basically what we are talking here is the difference between 5 and 8-12 since most pundits have Schreff coming off the board in the 8-12 range.

Side note who cares if its a make history kind of move if it actually Improves the team over all. And before you say one of the pass rushers would be a safer bet because every one assumes they are worthy of the #5 spot.... highly drafted O-lineman generally tend to have a much better career as far as production than do pass rushers, WRs or DBs.

Yes but it's also true that lineman drafted in the mid rounds have a higher success rate too. You somehow think that if we pass on your boy at 5 we are resigned to the same OL as last year. That is nonsense, it's March 19th. Plenty of time and ways to acquire OL. As for your argument that we have not had success drafting lineman in the mid rounds so it obviously isn't in the cards for us again that is nonsense. SM was not making those picks.

Good thing you weren't running the Lions draft because you obviously would have passed on Calvin Johnson due the Lions history of missing on several other high WR pics in the past.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yes but it's also true that lineman drafted in the mid rounds have a higher success rate too. You somehow think that if we pass on your boy at 5 we are resigned to the same OL as last year. That is nonsense, it's March 19th. Plenty of time and ways to acquire OL. As for your argument that we have not had success drafting lineman in the mid rounds so it obviously isn't in the cards for us again that is nonsense. SM was not making those picks.

Good thing you weren't running the Lions draft because you obviously would have passed on Calvin Johnson due the Lions history of missing on several other high WR pics in the past.

Dude, the fact that SM did not make those picks has ZERO bearing on the FACT that you expect success from a guy you drafted higher. We HAVE failed drafting later O-line. Our most pressing need right now is to fix the o-line. So it makes sense to invest in fixing the o-line. But as i have stated repeatedly.. that apparently is just not sexy enough for most around here. I get it, you want the "impact player". So we can either draft the players we are relatively sure will fix the line, or draft another "impact player" then watch you all bitch about how could we not fix the line mid way through the season.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

@Sharkinva

I get that you feel the Oline is the most important need for this team and thus should be the pick at 5 if we don't trade down. Or the first pick regardless of where we land in picks.

But we hired SM for a reason. To implement his vision and strategy for this team in terms of evaluating talent and making the best decisions in the draft and FA. So far, so good, imo.

Can't we wait to see how this plays out?

It seems like you are 'fortifying the castle in advance' for any discontent from posters, if this team does NOT go Oline first.

I've seen no one NOT want improvements on the Oline. Just because some don't feel it should be the first pick, does not mean they don't think the Oline doesn't require addressing.

I don't get your stance of 'don't complain about the Oline, if it's not the first pick' later. The two points are not mutually exclusive. Seems a flawed postion to take, when all anyone wants is for the skins to improve.

And for the record, I'm ok with an Oline at 5, if that's the pick SM chooses. He is the talent evaluator.

 

[Sharkinva]

@Sharkinva

I get that you feel the Oline is the most important need for this team and thus should be the pick at 5 if we don't trade down. Or the first pick regardless of where we land in picks.

But we hired SM for a reason. To implement his vision and strategy for this team in terms of evaluating talent and making the best decisions in the draft and FA. So far, so good, imo.

Can't we wait to see how this plays out?

It seems like you are 'fortifying the castle in advance' for any discontent from posters, if this team does NOT go Oline first.

I've seen no one NOT want improvements on the Oline. Just because some don't feel it should be the first pick, does not mean they don't think the Oline doesn't require addressing.

I don't get your stance of 'don't complain about the Oline, if it's not the first pick' later. The two points are not mutually exclusive. Seems a flawed postion to take, when all anyone wants is for the skins to improve.

And for the record, I'm ok with an Oline at 5, if that's the pick SM chooses. He is the talent evaluator.

Cali... Maybe i just find it more than a little odd that primarily the posters that have been railing about the Offensive line for the past two years are the first to dismiss even the slightest chance that we should infact make it a priority and address it first in the draft. Most of the posters giving me flak on this are the ones who swore up and down that if we just gave the QB enough talent on the line, he would be the franchise QB they all envisioned. Now the same posters are screaming for a pass rusher, WR or god knows any thing but an offensive lineman. Kinda has me wondering that even if we were picking 12th or 15th would these same posters be banging the drum of "I hope Danny Shelton falls to us so we can draft another pass rusher". And my main reason for wanting to invest in the line early and often is because we have failed over the last 15 years to find even a decent backup for the oline in anything less than the first round. So as talented as our GM is, I think we are to the point in time where it might benefit us to slightly over pay to fix an area that has been constantly ignored for 15 years at this point.

And for the record I would be ecstatic if we took an o-lineman at #5 even if the pass rusher or WR or DB was considered more of an impact player by the talking heads of the world.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Cali... Maybe i just find it more than a little odd that primarily the posters that have been railing about the Offensive line for the past two years are the first to dismiss even the slightest chance that we should infact make it a priority and address it first in the draft. Most of the posters giving me flak on this are the ones who swore up and down that if we just gave the QB enough talent on the line, he would be the franchise QB they all envisioned. Now the same posters are screaming for a pass rusher, WR or god knows any thing but an offensive lineman. Kinda has me wondering that even if we were picking 12th or 15th would these same posters be banging the drum of "I hope Danny Shelton falls to us so we can draft another pass rusher". And my main reason for wanting to invest in the line early and often is because we have failed over the last 15 years to find even a decent backup for the oline in anything less than the first round. So as talented as our GM is, I think we are to the point in time where it might benefit us to slightly over pay to fix an area that has been constantly ignored for 15 years at this point.

Fair enough.

If however, the Oline is NOT the first pick(s) in this years draft, I'm going to send out happy pills via FEDEX immediately

 

[Sharkinva]

Fair enough.

If however, the Oline is NOT the first pick(s) in this years draft, I'm going to send out happy pills via FEDEX immediately

To be honest, I expect we will either take the Pass Rusher or WR or trade down and still take the pass rusher or WR.

Then come round two, when a DB or another Pass Rusher or WR has slipped, I expect the same posters to be saying.. Oh my god we have to take this guy. Then we will draft the next Morgan the Red Sea Moses in round three...

At which point I will simply remind every one that lobbied for anything but O-line in the first that when week six comes and they are complaining about the o-line again.... I warned em.

 

[skinsdad62]

you dont believe that SM will do what is right ?

 

[skinsdad62]

i have lobbied for fixing the LOS for years , since ESPN , and i still will lobby for it . however i can see the need to get value for the pick . i also know that we can get o/lineman , OLB's dbs wrs etc later and it all doesnt ride on the 1st round pick

just because we dont use a 1st rounder on a o/lineman doesnt mean i or anyone else doesnt believe its a priority

there are 7 rounds in a draft and we seem to have a good talent evaluator making the calls

 

[Sharkinva]

you dont believe that SM will do what is right ?

I have learned over the last 15 years, we are the Redskins... anything we can forkup, we will forkup unless its simply a no possible way to screw it up situation. And even those tend to blow up in our faces.

 

[redskinsfan]

not true , mayock has said he will be a good RT in the NFL but a great OG and that is most likely true

as for history who cares ? shouldnt be a consideration

now as i have said this draft lasts 7 rounds . i am not militant one way or another . i think we can get 3 starters from this draft

If he's in fact "good" at RT, that's not worth at #5 pick overall. Others have given less-glowing appraisals, especially in connection with his pass-pro. That's what concerns me a lot. To be sure, anyone would be an upgrade over what we have now. But that's not a good draft strategy, and that goes doubly so for first rounders.

 

[redskinsfan]

i have lobbied for fixing the LOS for years , since ESPN , and i still will lobby for it . however i can see the need to get value for the pick . i also know that we can get o/lineman , OLB's dbs wrs etc later and it all doesnt ride on the 1st round pick

just because we dont use a 1st rounder on a o/lineman doesnt mean i or anyone else doesnt believe its a priority

there are 7 rounds in a draft and we seem to have a good talent evaluator making the calls

Did you work for ESPN?

 

[Sharkinva]

If he's in fact "good" at RT, that's not worth at #5 pick overall. Others have given less-glowing appraisals, especially in connection with his pass-pro. That's what concerns me a lot. To be sure, anyone would be an upgrade over what we have now. But that's not a good draft strategy, and that goes doubly so for first rounders.

So basically you are saying a RT is not worth a top five pick, and no way is a starting RG worth a top five pick??

And people wonder why I have basically come out and said, a big part of the flak I get for suggesting we take an O-lineman is that the pick simply isnt sexy enough to be made at #5.

# I rest my case

 

[skinsdad62]

If he's in fact "good" at RT, that's not worth at #5 pick overall. Others have given less-glowing appraisals, especially in connection with his pass-pro. That's what concerns me a lot. To be sure, anyone would be an upgrade over what we have now. But that's not a good draft strategy, and that goes doubly so for first rounders.

jon jansen was a good RT for us for 10 years . he never threatened a pro bowl but he held down that side . if we get the same from scherf i would be happy . however if he is a "all pro " type OG like martin was last year and he plays like that for a decade i would be estatic to pick him

Did you work for ESPN?

no but most of the posters on this board now are ex espn board posters who were there for like 10 years

I have learned over the last 15 years, we are the Redskins... anything we can forkup, we will forkup unless its simply a no possible way to screw it up situation. And even those tend to blow up in our faces.

the past is the past shark . we have a new GM who appears to be calling the shots .

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Cali... Maybe i just find it more than a little odd that primarily the posters that have been railing about the Offensive line for the past two years are the first to dismiss even the slightest chance that we should infact make it a priority and address it first in the draft.

How many times do I need to say it? EVERYONE wants to improve the OL. This is not news and there is not one faction that is screaming for it the loudest. The difference between our opinion and yours is you dismiss the "sexy pick" as irresponsible, then you propose the panic move of picking a lesser player just attempt to fix a terrible OL, which of course is short sighted and a failed strategy.

Why you keep dismissing my point that SM was not making the picks in the past is puzzling. You can't hold him accountable for picks Vinny has made, that's just stupid. Of course there are no guarantees on OL drafted later in the draft. That goes without saying. But what is guaranteed is if you pick lesser players you will have a worse draft.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Aaaaaaaand back to safeties...

LOL getting this group back on topic.

 

[Sharkinva]

How many times do I need to say it? EVERYONE wants to improve the OL. This is not news and there is not one faction that is screaming for it the loudest. The difference between our opinion and yours is you dismiss the "sexy pick" as irresponsible, then you propose the panic move of picking a lesser player just attempt to fix a terrible OL, which of course is short sighted and a failed strategy.

Why you keep dismissing my point that SM was not making the picks in the past is puzzling. You can't hold him accountable for picks Vinny has made, that's just stupid. Of course there are no guarantees on OL drafted later in the draft. That goes without saying. But what is guaranteed is if you pick lesser players you will have a worse draft.

Then where we disagree is on the whole Lesser player front. I happen to think Schreff or Peat would be the equal player and worthy of the pick.

I call it the sexy pick because Every one seems to think that RT or RG are some how not worthy of a pick as high up as number 5, but a pass rusher some how is.

I know I cant blame Scot for picks he didnt make, but I can say that the prevailing thinking that anything on the oline other than a LT is some how not worthy of our pick is stupid thinking if that is what our GM is also feeling. Thats the same kind of thinking that has had many an all pro or Super Bowl winning player fall to some lucky team in the draft. Both these guys are starters likely from day one. But as I have said many times, apparently because of thier percieved position they are apparently not sexy enough to get picked at #5.

 

[skinsdad62]

Then where we disagree is on the whole Lesser player front. I happen to think Schreff or Peat would be the equal player and worthy of the pick.

I call it the sexy pick because Every one seems to think that RT or RG are some how not worthy of a pick as high up as number 5, but a pass rusher some how is.

I know I cant blame Scot for picks he didnt make, but I can say that the prevailing thinking that anything on the oline other than a LT is some how not worthy of our pick is stupid thinking if that is what our GM is also feeling. Thats the same kind of thinking that has had many an all pro or Super Bowl winning player fall to some lucky team in the draft. Both these guys are starters likely from day one. But as I have said many times, apparently because of thier percieved position they are apparently not sexy enough to get picked at #5.

again i have no issue with taking scherf at 5 none whatsoever i can live with a 10 year PB OG the question is is scherf a better football player then the players that have been mentioned at 5 and can you get that need addressed later ?

 

[redskinsfan]

So basically you are saying a RT is not worth a top five pick, and no way is a starting RG worth a top five pick??

And people wonder why I have basically come out and said, a big part of the flak I get for suggesting we take an O-lineman is that the pick simply isnt sexy enough to be made at #5.

# I rest my case

No, I didn't say that about a right tackle, although I'd think that would be somewhat of a reach at #5 since teams can get good RTs like Jon Jansen in the second round. I, however, did say that no guard is worth it at #5. My point here is that despite our pressing need at RG and RT, we can't stray from prudent drafting. And we do that when need overtakes logic when assessing who we select with such a high pick. I, for one, have lobbied for using our draft picks to fix the o-line. But in order to do that smartly, I've always stated that we need to trade down. If we can't, the smart call is OLB.

 

[redskinsfan]

How many times do I need to say it? EVERYONE wants to improve the OL. This is not news and there is not one faction that is screaming for it the loudest. The difference between our opinion and yours is you dismiss the "sexy pick" as irresponsible, then you propose the panic move of picking a lesser player just attempt to fix a terrible OL, which of course is short sighted and a failed strategy.

Why you keep dismissing my point that SM was not making the picks in the past is puzzling. You can't hold him accountable for picks Vinny has made, that's just stupid. Of course there are no guarantees on OL drafted later in the draft. That goes without saying. But what is guaranteed is if you pick lesser players you will have a worse draft.

Winner winner, chicken dinner!!!