Smith trade , what we actually gave up

[gkekoa]

Going to avoid the hellhole that is and always will be Alex Smith debates the best I can, but the Redskins actually had a better defense than the Chiefs last year. The Chiefs were abysmal on defense as a whole. Several stars yes, but several scrubs. Their PPG is a lie. Once Berry went down the dam had burst.

By DVOA:

Chiefs 30th 10.6%

Skins 11th -4.9%

[Skins net 15.5; roughly 1.5 wins in theory better than the Chiefs defense]

Weighted

Chiefs 32nd 14.0%

Skins 13th -1.3%

Skins net 15.3; again roughly 1.5 wins in theory better than the Chiefs defense]

Both have pretty bad run defenses, but defenses live and die on the passing game, not the run game.

The only reason the Chiefs aren't picking top 5 this year is the offense, ST's, and Reid; let alone making the playoffs.

PPG is the most important defensive stat and really the only team stat that matters on object is to score more points on offense than the defense allows.

Now there is one stat that can change defensive stats more than any other...turnovers forced which KC was 7.

 

[Stymietee]

Of course it be damned. A bad trade is still a bad trade. It wreaks of desperation and AS is a horrible choice for this team.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the choice, A.J was and is still my choice, but for some to now pretend that part of that trade hatred was in no way connected to not getting Kirk signed is dishonest. If this doesn't apply to you then it doesn't and I'll not continue to go back and forth debating a non sequitur with you.

 

[Stymietee]

That’s fine, though I’m willing to give Gruden a chance and see. If AJ was a better option you’d think Gruden would’ve went for him. After all he coached him didn’t he?

No he didn't.

 

[Rowdy]

No he didn't.

Ok, I couldn’t remember and too lazy to research. Lol

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

slow down there fuller was the best slot cb this year 50/50 next year he might suck balls who knows

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

i dont know what hedging is in a debate message board but can i use superbowl ring Sudfield as my hedge

 

[Skins2021]

If Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins switched spots last season with the injuries and schedules etc.

Chiefs would have won their 1st round playoff game

Redskins would have went 5-11

 

[Skins2021]

Fact:

1) Skins drove Cousins out of town
2) Fuller is an ascending player on a rookie contract, home grown and drafted by the redskins
3) 3rd round picks are valuable, especially considering the Skins hit more on their 3rd rounders then 2nd rounders.
4) Alex Smith is older then Cousins
5) Alex Smith is getting a large contract with a ton of guaranteed money
6) Chiefs have been considering replacing Smith for years because he cant take them to the next level
7) Everyone knew Mahomes would be starting in 2018 so how was it that the Chiefs had all the leverage when they are cap strapped and were moving on?
8) Every other team in the Alex Smith trade market viewed him as a bridge QB to a rookie... the Skins view the 34 year old qb who has been average his entire career as the long term answer
9) this move was about selling jerseys, egos, and remaining competitive w/ 7-9 wins... this move was not about long term team success

This move should have 0% support from redskins fans. People should boycott the team or switch teams. Financially ruin Snyder.

There is no optimism with this move and if you are optimistic about it or attempting to spin it my guess is that you are the type to buy whatever a door to door salesmen is pitching.... or you are just flat out dumb

 

[gkekoa]

Fact:

1) Skins drove Cousins out of town
2) Fuller is an ascending player on a rookie contract, home grown and drafted by the redskins
3) 3rd round picks are valuable, especially considering the Skins hit more on their 3rd rounders then 2nd rounders.
4) Alex Smith is older then Cousins
5) Alex Smith is getting a large contract with a ton of guaranteed money
6) Chiefs have been considering replacing Smith for years because he cant take them to the next level
7) Everyone knew Mahomes would be starting in 2018 so how was it that the Chiefs had all the leverage when they are cap strapped and were moving on?
8) Every other team in the Alex Smith trade market viewed him as a bridge QB to a rookie... the Skins view the 34 year old qb who has been average his entire career as the long term answer
9) this move was about selling jerseys, egos, and remaining competitive w/ 7-9 wins... this move was not about long term team success

This move should have 0% support from redskins fans. People should boycott the team or switch teams. Financially ruin Snyder.

There is no optimism with this move and if you are optimistic about it or attempting to spin it my guess is that you are the type to buy whatever a door to door salesmen is pitching.... or you are just flat out dumb

Welcome to the Skin’s Board.

 

[Skins2021]

Welcome to the Skin’s Board.

its infuriating... was also infuriating to see after 20+ years of qb ineptitude that people werent sucking Cousins left nut.

One of many negatives about the trade that isnt discussed much here (maybe because there are so many negatives) was my 8th fact

Every other team in the Alex Smith trade market viewed him as a bridge QB to a rookie... the Skins view the 34 year old qb who has been average his entire career as the long term answer

 

[gkekoa]

its infuriating... was also infuriating to see after 20+ years of qb ineptitude that people werent sucking Cousins left nut.

One of many negatives about the trade that isnt discussed much here (maybe because there are so many negatives) was my 8th fact

Every other team in the Alex Smith trade market viewed him as a bridge QB to a rookie... the Skins view the 34 year old qb who has been average his entire career as the long term answer

I have mentioned several times how he was beat out and cast aside for the likes of Shaun Hill, Kap, and now Mahommes.

 

[Skins2021]

I have mentioned several times how he was beat out and cast aside for the likes of Shaun Hill, Kap, and now Mahommes.

I was specifically referring to the Browns, Broncos, and the other interested teams in Alex Smith recently.

No one was willing to extend him as long as the skins and in fact, the browns wanted to trade for him AND draft a qb in round 1.

Skins on the other hand see him as the future.

 

[deanpet21]

Fact:

1) Skins drove Cousins out of town
2) Fuller is an ascending player on a rookie contract, home grown and drafted by the redskins
3) 3rd round picks are valuable, especially considering the Skins hit more on their 3rd rounders then 2nd rounders.
4) Alex Smith is older then Cousins
5) Alex Smith is getting a large contract with a ton of guaranteed money
6) Chiefs have been considering replacing Smith for years because he cant take them to the next level
7) Everyone knew Mahomes would be starting in 2018 so how was it that the Chiefs had all the leverage when they are cap strapped and were moving on?
8) Every other team in the Alex Smith trade market viewed him as a bridge QB to a rookie... the Skins view the 34 year old qb who has been average his entire career as the long term answer
9) this move was about selling jerseys, egos, and remaining competitive w/ 7-9 wins... this move was not about long term team success

This move should have 0% support from redskins fans. People should boycott the team or switch teams. Financially ruin Snyder.

There is no optimism with this move and if you are optimistic about it or attempting to spin it my guess is that you are the type to buy whatever a door to door salesmen is pitching.... or you are just flat out dumb

Actually the latest Tandler poll. 65% of Skins fans like the trade. IF Josh Allen is there at #13 he should be the choice. You are not comprehending that KC was never going to sign here in FA this year,. We had to make a move. I cant believe the trade capital that we have gave up for a GOOD QB is pissing people off.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

PPG is the most important defensive stat and really the only team stat that matters on object is to score more points on offense than the defense allows.

Now there is one stat that can change defensive stats more than any other...turnovers forced which KC was 7.

I would say we have at or near irreconcilable disagreements if this turns into PPG vs DVOA; the latter I find much more predictive and useful, and more accurate and true to the situations and oddities of the season. PPG can get skewed by things that are largely luck, such as takeaways or things that are the offense's domain in giveaways. The Chiefs only lost an NFL record for giveaways when they started backups in week 17. Their PPG is just a clever finesse job, not representative of performance.

 

[Sportster 72]

Shark and myself had already understood KC was likely gone. Skinsdad is probably there if he could get beyond his optimism.

We hate the Smith trade regardless of KC’s status. That is our point.

You left out quite a few names there...AJ McCarron, Teddy Bridgewater, Case Keenum, CK, JoshMcCown, Jay Cutler, and a plethora of other options were there or would be...all available the same time as Alex Smith.

The end of the story is the trade has been made. The story that follow is what happens from here on out. And that can be examined over multiple players.

 

[Skins2021]

Actually the latest Tandler poll. 65% of Skins fans like the trade. IF Josh Allen is there at #13 he should be the choice. You are not comprehending that KC was never going to sign here in FA this year,. We had to make a move. I cant believe the trade capital that we have gave up for a GOOD QB is pissing people off.

I saw that poll.. Russell, Tandler, Steinberg etc make a living off the redskins. This is their livelihood. They cant have an apathetic fan base or a greatly diminished one or they dont have a job.

They are pushing a positive spin for this reason and this reason alone.

and... redskins fans are not the brightest. I've come to the realization over the last couple months or just dont give a shit.

We gave up a lot of capital to get an average QB. "GOOD" qb is a spin, because Alex Smith is an average QB who had a "GOOD" season.

Also Kirk Cousins wasnt going to sign here because of the disrespect he felt from the skins front office. Skins never offered a fair market value, not once.

God I hope Kirk Cousins signs with the Vikings and wins a SB in year 1, that is of course if the Eagles dont repeat. Skins will be treading water at 6 to 9 wins put it in the bank.

 

[Rowdy]

I was specifically referring to the Browns, Broncos, and the other interested teams in Alex Smith recently.

No one was willing to extend him as long as the skins and in fact, the browns wanted to trade for him AND draft a qb in round 1.

Skins on the other hand see him as the future.

This statement right here is why the tag and trade has a slim possibility. Teams with enough cap to use him to mentor a young guy. I really think the Browns is the next jaguars they are starting to draft better and now have a pretty good FO. This is just my view from the outside because I sure don’t follow them.

 

[Skins2021]

This statement right here is why the tag and trade has a slim possibility. Teams with enough cap to use him to mentor a young guy. I really think the Browns is the next jaguars they are starting to draft better and now have a pretty good FO. This is just my view from the outside because I sure don’t follow them.

their owner is a meddling moron...

doesnt matter whos in the front office when you have a meddling moron at the top

am I right?

 

[ehb5]

Andy Reid is entering his 20th season as a NFL HC in this league. He has ZERO Super Bowls.

Some say, he "fleeced" the Skins in that trade...I think he was just hedging his bets.

I think its pretty clear Andy Reid knows more than Bruce Allen. Especially about quarterbacks.

 

[Stymietee]

their owner is a meddling moron...

doesnt matter whos in the front office when you have a meddling moron at the top

am I right?

Actually no, historical search will tell you that almost every long term NFL ownership evolves from some degree of meddling to learning how to take that step back and trust the professionals that are hired to do the job. Granted some, as is the case with our team, take longer than others to get there. The Browns ownership appears, and I used that term advisedly, to have come to that point. The hiring of John Dorsey and the moves that he's already made in their front office is impressive, especially since he's, in one way or the other removed former ownership hires and restocked with men that fit his agenda. His goal for the 2018 season is making the playoffs, although it's unlikely that they get there this year, you don't set goals like that unless you also plan to build a team capable of meeting those goals. Now about that "meddling moron," his name is Jimmy Haslam III, I know that his history garners skepticism and his word means nothing in Cleveland, this is why I used the word "appears" earlier. We will see!!