Smith trade , what we actually gave up

[Stymietee]

For the record, Kirk Cousins was never, ever , ever, sticking with this team on a LTD. It just wasn't going to happen after they tagged him the first time. (actually, in the BS leading up to that tag)

Can some of you at long last understand this and stop with the what they "SHOULD" have done. Market value contract, or above market value contract, Kirk just flatly wasn't goiung to sign it. His time here, literally died back then, the only difference was that the burial was delayed by a couple of seasons, until Kirk had amassed just over 44 million.

 

[Sharkinva]

Andy Reid is entering his 20th season as a NFL HC in this league. He has ZERO Super Bowls.

Some say, he "fleeced" the Skins in that trade...I think he was just hedging his bets.

I would tend to say Reed was the beneficiary of the Skins fleecing themselves yet again.

Like Smith or not, we likely wont be able to get out of his new deal before 2021 at the earliest. So in effect, Bruce has basically given the team a 3 year window to win it all.

Now I know I know, Brady is 40 and just made a Super Bowl..... But much as people said it the last three years.... Smith aint Brady. And if this team isnt serious contenders for a Lombardi by the year 2020, then we will be rebuilding again in 2021.

 

[Stymietee]

The title of this thread is, "Smith trade , what we actually gave up" and I want to address that singular declaration.

1. Let me start by saying that, if you believed that Cousins was going to sign a LTD here, as wrong as that is, then you would be correct to view the trade as something lost.

2. However, if you, KNEW that there was no chance that Cousins was coming back, then the Smith trade can ONLY be viewed as what was gained.

In the first instance (#1 above) the comparison between Kirk and Smith is ONLY possible, if you see it as something that "Should" have happened but didn't. It is the "Should" that makes any comparison of the two nonsensical and the loss, pure fantasy.

In the second instance (#2 above) the comparison must be between Colt McCoy, an unnamed rookie and Alex Smith, because that is actually where this team found itself. Facing that reality, Bruce did what he did against everything that I wanted him would do. A.J being my choice, he ultimately decided that neither Colt, the unnamed rookie, nor, anyone that he might have gotten in free agency, satisfied, as much as Smith did. We will see if he's right about that. Of course if he's wrong, I'll be the first demanding that we roast that pig with an apple in his mouth.

 

[gkekoa]

We gave up a third round pick and the best slot CB in football. End of story.

 

[Stymietee]

We gave up a third round pick and the best slot CB in football. End of story.

Yes that is correct, but it wasn't because of losing Kirk Cousins, only in the stubborn minds of some here was that even a possibility. In truth, this team gave up a third round pick and the best slot corner in football because the choice was between Colt McCoy, an unnamed rookie, a free agent and Alex Smith. Now that's the actual end of story!!

 

[gkekoa]

Yes that is correct, but it wasn't because of losing Kirk Cousins, only in the stubborn minds of some here was that even a possibility. In truth, this team gave up a third round pick and the best slot corner in football because the choice was between Colt McCoy, an unnamed rookie, a free agent and Alex Smith. Now that's the actual end of story!!

Shark and myself had already understood KC was likely gone. Skinsdad is probably there if he could get beyond his optimism.

We hate the Smith trade regardless of KC’s status. That is our point.

You left out quite a few names there...AJ McCarron, Teddy Bridgewater, Case Keenum, CK, JoshMcCown, Jay Cutler, and a plethora of other options were there or would be...all available the same time as Alex Smith.

 

[Rowdy]

Shark and myself had already understood KC was likely gone. Skinsdad is probably there if he could get beyond his optimism.

We hate the Smith trade regardless of KC’s status. That is our point.

You left out quite a few names there...AJ McCarron, Teddy Bridgewater, Case Keenum, CK, JoshMcCown, Jay Cutler, and a plethora of other options were there or would be...all available the same time as Alex Smith.

Of that list, only ones I’d be interested in would be AJ (hasn’t really played) and Mcown who is even older than smith. I think

 

[Sharkinva]

Of that list, only ones I’d be interested in would be AJ (hasn’t really played) and Mcown who is even older than smith. I think

To me the list matters not. Driving Cousins out, trading for Smith. Both just show a decided move back to Snyder football. By the time training camp starts, they will have convinced some of the fan base that the Redskins can do with Smith, what Philly just did.

 

[Rowdy]

Yea, I don’t really like the trade, but with the other options rather than Kirk. AS gives us the best chance to win. Imo

 

[Sharkinva]

Yea, I don’t really like the trade, but with the other options rather than Kirk. AS gives us the best chance to win. Imo

Well sure... if we had a top ten defense, running game and WRs worth a fart in the wind.

IM just not seeing Smith as a guy who can carry the team. And I dont think we have the team strong enough for Smith to just game manage us into the playoffs.

 

[Rowdy]

On a side note...gonna have to change my name to httr11

 

[Stymietee]

Shark and myself had already understood KC was likely gone. Skinsdad is probably there if he could get beyond his optimism.

We hate the Smith trade regardless of KC’s status. That is our point.

You left out quite a few names there...AJ McCarron, Teddy Bridgewater, Case Keenum, CK, JoshMcCown, Jay Cutler, and a plethora of other options were there or would be...all available the same time as Alex Smith.

I get it, you hate the trade because it was a bad trade, needing a QB and why, be damned huh? Yet we get numerous post comparing the Smith and Cousins, while simultaneously debating a loss that happened after the 2015 season concluded, as if there was a connection, based on a possibility that didn't exist, to sign him long term. As stated, Kirk's been gone for just over two years now, the true choice was between those that I listed previously.

I said it after the 2015 season concluded and negotiations broke down (it's an easy search) against an avalanche of nay sayers, including the three of you. Even suggested that they trade him back then, which, if some here want to cue their hindsight modes, might have been a bit too early in terms of value, but a certainty as I continued to extoll the virtues of trading him after the 2016 season and that value became more obvious.

BTW: I did include A.J in my post, it's possible it was missed. I didn't include the others because A.J represented free agent possibilities.

 

[Stymietee]

Well sure... if we had a top ten defense, running game and WRs worth a fart in the wind.

IM just not seeing Smith as a guy who can carry the team. And I dont think we have the team strong enough for Smith to just game manage us into the playoffs.

Then the alternatives would have been Colt, an unnamed rookie or a free agent. Interesting, in light of all that's happened thus far, how good A.J is looking to some here.

 

[gkekoa]

Of that list, only ones I’d be interested in would be AJ (hasn’t really played) and Mcown who is even older than smith. I think

I am interested in every one of them over Alex Smith with what we gave up, especially when the rest would have come cheaper and no picks (except maybe McCarron).

Yea, I don’t really like the trade, but with the other options rather than Kirk. AS gives us the best chance to win. Imo

I disagree on our team. A conservative QB cannot win on this team.

 

[Sharkinva]

Then the alternatives would have been Colt, an unnamed rookie or a free agent. Interesting, in light of all that's happened thus far, how good A.J is looking to some here.

Sty.. much as some are saying Skinsdad is hedging with his current expectations from Smith. I get the feeling deep down AJ was your hedge, because you know he doesnt check off the Danny Boxes, he isnt another form of RG3 so you wouldnt be called out for that, but in the end you knew the odds of him becoming the Redskins QB were slim and none, and slim died of anorexia.

 

[gkekoa]

I get it, you hate the trade because it was a bad trade, needing a QB and why, be damned huh? Yet we get numerous post comparing the two, while simultaneously debating a loss that happened after the 2015 season concluded, as if there was a connection based on a possibility to sign him long term. As stated, Kirk's been gone for just over two years now, the true choice was between those that I listed previously.

I said it after the 2015 season concluded and negotiations broke down (it's an easy search) against an avalanche of nay sayers, including the three of you. Even suggested that they trade him back then, which, if some here want to cue their hindsight modes, might have been a bit too early in terms of value, but a certainty as I continued to extoll the virtues of trading him after the 2016 season and that value became more obvious.

BTW: I did include A.J in my post, it's possible it was missed. I didn't include the others because A.J represented free agent possibilities in my post.

Of course it be damned. A bad trade is still a bad trade. It wreaks of desperation and AS is a horrible choice for this team.

 

[Rowdy]

I am interested in every one of them over Alex Smith with what we gave up, especially when the rest would have come cheaper and no picks (except maybe McCarron).




I disagree on our team. A conservative QB cannot win on this team.

That’s fine, though I’m willing to give Gruden a chance and see. If AJ was a better option you’d think Gruden would’ve went for him. After all he coached him didn’t he?

 

[Sharkinva]

That’s fine, though I’m willing to give Gruden a chance and see. If AJ was a better option you’d think Gruden would’ve went for him. After all he coached him didn’t he?

Gruden never coached McCarron. He was drafted the year after Gruden left.

McCarron does not meet the Danny criteria. We would ave drafted a rookie over getting MCCarron. This trade was more about winning off the field.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Stat can be skewed. The stats themselves are still facts. QB rating takes stats as a combined whole. YPA can’t be skewed unless the player only threw a few passes. Air YPA can’t be skewed unless the player only threw a few passes.

Alex Smith never defeated the Skins. The Chiefs did with a superior run game and superior defense.

Going to avoid the hellhole that is and always will be Alex Smith debates the best I can, but the Redskins actually had a better defense than the Chiefs last year. The Chiefs were abysmal on defense as a whole. Several stars yes, but several scrubs. Their PPG is a lie. Once Berry went down the dam had burst.

By DVOA:

Chiefs 30th 10.6%

Skins 11th -4.9%

[Skins net 15.5; roughly 1.5 wins in theory better than the Chiefs defense]

Weighted

Chiefs 32nd 14.0%

Skins 13th -1.3%

Skins net 15.3; again roughly 1.5 wins in theory better than the Chiefs defense]

Both have pretty bad run defenses, but defenses live and die on the passing game, not the run game.

The only reason the Chiefs aren't picking top 5 this year is the offense, ST's, and Reid; let alone making the playoffs.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty.. much as some are saying Skinsdad is hedging with his current expectations from Smith. I get the feeling deep down AJ was your hedge, because you know he doesnt check off the Danny Boxes, he isnt another form of RG3 so you wouldnt be called out for that, but in the end you knew the odds of him becoming the Redskins QB were slim and none, and slim died of anorexia.

Absolutely Not!! Let's remember that there was a challenge put forth, to name an alternative to Kirk that was as good or better and cheaper. After a lot of research, the boxes that he checked off were the ones that were included in the challenge. I never called @dad out for hedging and the use of that same sort cynicism in hindsight is frankly, contemptible. I did the research, came up with a name as challenged, took the shit that came with doing that, stood my ground and NOW because folks have finally reached the same conclusion that I did then, I have some spurious motivations that were never ever hinted at in real time!! Yeah right!

BTW: Not going after A.J. is unfortunate for our team.