• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

Embarrassing

ill

THRILLHO
79,956
16,445
1,033
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I have zero problem with people exercising their freedom of speech or freedom to demonstrate ... but to not show respect for the symbol that gives them that right? There's no better way to help bring awareness?? C'mon man ...
that's just it, it is a symbol. The flag and the anthem do not give anyone any freedoms because they are symbols and that symbol represents so many things to different people. Who are you to tell anyone what is should represent to them?
 

mannyz

The Real Batman
1,833
574
113
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Location
Lake Mary Fl
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
that's just it, it is a symbol. The flag and the anthem do not give anyone any freedoms because they are symbols and that symbol represents so many things to different people. Who are you to tell anyone what is should represent to them?
You don't get it. That symbol inspire people. I have read and heard 1st accounts of how that symbol inspired Marines at Mt Surabashi. A lot of people have shed blood for that symbol. I served USMC, my son is an Air Force pilot, that flag represents this country. The greatest country in the world. No one is getting killed because they don't give it the respect it is due. I even took an oath to protect our people's rights to be able to disrespect it, but no real American should.
 

ill

THRILLHO
79,956
16,445
1,033
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
You don't get it. That symbol inspire people. I have read and heard 1st accounts of how that symbol inspired Marines at Mt Surabashi. A lot of people have shed blood for that symbol. I served USMC, my son is an Air Force pilot, that flag represents this country. The greatest country in the world. No one is getting killed because they don't give it the respect it is due. I even took an oath to protect our people's rights to be able to disrespect it, but no real American should.
I disagree, and that is ok. The symbol means different things to different people. It can mean whatever you want it to mean. I am not saying people did no die defending this country and our ideologies. I have nothing but respect for that. But the flag represents those ideals, represents the country. Not the military, in my opinion. It represents the rights and freedoms that we all have, including the right to protest. There are no guidelines set on what is and what is not an acceptable protest.

It is a nonviolent protest and it is an effective one. I have no problem with it.
 

mannyz

The Real Batman
1,833
574
113
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Location
Lake Mary Fl
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I disagree, and that is ok. The symbol means different things to different people. It can mean whatever you want it to mean. I am not saying people did no die defending this country and our ideologies. I have nothing but respect for that. But the flag represents those ideals, represents the country. Not the military, in my opinion. It represents the rights and freedoms that we all have, including the right to protest. There are no guidelines set on what is and what is not an acceptable protest.

It is a nonviolent protest and it is an effective one. I have no problem with it.
How is it effective. Who gives a crap about these idiots protesting. Most people think they are disrespectful to our flag and our country. Cops killing young black males who obey the law is not a problem as BLM would lead you to believe. Granted there has been some cases where cops have shot and killed suspects, and it has been considered exessive force but that has also been black cops doing the shooting on black and white suspects, just as there has been white cops doing the shooting on males of both race.
Maybe it is time for these athletes to give back and mentor in their communities. Help the Urkles of this world. I would think there are a lot more Urkles in the AA community that there are Michael Jordans. We as a society, and I include every race, tend to idolize athletes and make the special ones rich beyond anything we can comprehend. Tell them to starting giving back. I know some do, but most don't.
Read why Russell Wilson does not show disrespect to our flag.
 

ill

THRILLHO
79,956
16,445
1,033
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
How is it effective. Who gives a crap about these idiots protesting. Most people think they are disrespectful to our flag and our country. Cops killing young black males who obey the law is not a problem as BLM would lead you to believe. Granted there has been some cases where cops have shot and killed suspects, and it has been considered exessive force but that has also been black cops doing the shooting on black and white suspects, just as there has been white cops doing the shooting on males of both race.
Maybe it is time for these athletes to give back and mentor in their communities. Help the Urkles of this world. I would think there are a lot more Urkles in the AA community that there are Michael Jordans. We as a society, and I include every race, tend to idolize athletes and make the special ones rich beyond anything we can comprehend. Tell them to starting giving back. I know some do, but most don't.
Read why Russell Wilson does not show disrespect to our flag.
we are talking about it, there for it is effective. Is it reaching other blacks to go out and do something? Possibly, but I would say it is. From what I can tell, the only people getting pissed off are white people who are bothered that the attention is being pulled away from their precious NFL games. Who says these players aren't giving back to their communities? A large majority of NFL players give back. I have read everything on the protests. Did you read Chris Long's take? We can do this all day.
Patriots DE Chris Long shares perspective on Colin Kaepernick's protest

I do believe that blacks are treated differently than whites. Not just cops shooting blacks, but in a bigger picture kind of way. Do I think they do it to themselves? Yes, they do. The black community has dug itself into a hole through crime and feeding the stereotype that surrounds the worst of their kind. Hell, I listen to rap music and I get mad at the lyrics because they just perpetuate the whole thing and that is a big part of what influences the culture.
 

PhillyGreen

Well-Known Member
4,328
591
113
Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I served 10 years and to be honest....I don't give a shit. I served so people like Kaepernick can protest in any way they see fit. To be honest the disrespect of the flag pisses me off but they have the right to Protest. However.....this country and it's freedoms allow it just like it allows the burning of the flag. Here is the thing.....in my home...these things will not happen. Disrepect the flag in my house and I will throw you out. Want to burn my flag? I dare you to try it.

In the end I control how much I let these things upset me. So I don't even tune in until after kick off. This way I do not have to see it.
 

iceman42

Member
317
20
18
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
My problem isnt with the "protests" you live in this country you are given the right to protest -- you can protest whatever you like. The other right is that you get to face the consequences of your protest, which in some cases meant jail, fines or losing your job. My problem is that the handful or so "protesters" really don't seem to be doing anything after the "protest" I am sure a couple of them are; but Kaepernicks big statement was giving a fraction of his considerable wealth to a social organization. The "leader" of this movement is wearing pig socks and donating money -- seems like a passive aggressive white rich thing to do -- throw a poultry sum at a cause to clear your conscience. Meanwhile Dwyane Wade is out organizing activities to bring the community and the police together in a non-confrontational environment.
 

Rey

Well-Known Member
5,325
469
83
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
that's just it, it is a symbol. The flag and the anthem do not give anyone any freedoms because they are symbols and that symbol represents so many things to different people. Who are you to tell anyone what is should represent to them?

I fully support people's "freedom" to kneel ... they have every "right" to do it. I also have the right to my "opinion" of thinking they are idiots for "how" they are protesting. I am not arguing at all that people shouldn't protest for what they believe ... but again, coming from parents who fled a communist country in search of freedom and found it here, I would never burn, step on or disrespect the symbol which represents this country. I am not trying to tell anyone how to think ... simply stating my opinion on the matter. Just because people have the "right" to do something, does not mean that I have to agree with it. People have the right to be racist ... doesn't mean I have to applaud them, but I will always support their freedom to express their beliefs.
 

ill

THRILLHO
79,956
16,445
1,033
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
My problem isnt with the "protests" you live in this country you are given the right to protest -- you can protest whatever you like. The other right is that you get to face the consequences of your protest, which in some cases meant jail, fines or losing your job. My problem is that the handful or so "protesters" really don't seem to be doing anything after the "protest" I am sure a couple of them are; but Kaepernicks big statement was giving a fraction of his considerable wealth to a social organization. The "leader" of this movement is wearing pig socks and donating money -- seems like a passive aggressive white rich thing to do -- throw a poultry sum at a cause to clear your conscience. Meanwhile Dwyane Wade is out organizing activities to bring the community and the police together in a non-confrontational environment.
that seems to be a common thought, that he isn't doing enough. I don't if he is doing any thing more than donating money from jersey sales. I applaud what Wade is doing because I think that helps. My question is, what exactly do you want Kaepernick to do? He is a football player, and from what I can tell from listening to him, a not very bright one. Do you want him to put on some kind of superhero outfit and go fight crime in black neighborhoods? All he has is a soapbox and millions of dollars. I really don't expect much from him, but maybe him getting up there and doing this protest is what he can contribute.
 

Northern Eagle

Hangin' With The Homeboys
1,736
115
63
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Where is the outrage at the television stations that have camera men walking around filming things and ignoring the national anthem? What about at all the people who stop standing at attention and start screaming after the word "free"? Or what about the people last week who could be hearing shouting "stand up" at Kaepernick during the anthem?

Each one of those items may not seem disrespectful to you, but each one goes against the flag code. Each one CAN be viewed as disrespectful. I have served and I am tired of hearing people use my service and the service of others as a reason they get to try to shut down someone else's voice. I'm not saying you cannot speak up, just leave the service of veterans out of it. Speak for yourselves. I served so people COULD use their voice.

If people truly want to support veterans and our troops here are the ways to do it:
1. Vote out representatives/senators who vote against programs that help veterans especially disabled/mentally ill ones.
2. Vote out representatives/senators who cut programs that aid veterans.
3. Vote out representatives/senators who send soldiers to war and do not provide any ways of caring for these soldiers and their families upon their return or death.
4. Donate to local charities that help veterans (not big charities that spend 30% of their budget or more on salaries and marketing)
5. Hire veterans.
6. Volunteer and help veterans who need it.
7. Help families who have lost someone in service.
8. Provide veteran discount at your business.

You will notice standing for the national anthem is not there, because it doesn't really do anything to help the troops or our veterans. It often is just a way for people to feel morally superior so they can forget about the 20 veterans who take their lives daily, or live on the streets, or suffer PTSD.

Lastly, the U.S. is a great country. I served her and did so gladly. Being a great country does not mean we shouldn't always try to strive to be better. Letting people use their voices peacefully is how we do that. If someone kneeling today during the national anthem leads to a discussion that prevents violence and death in the streets, sign me up, every single time.

I was thinking of something smart to say, but you summed it up very well - thank you.
 

Northern Eagle

Hangin' With The Homeboys
1,736
115
63
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I fully support people's "freedom" to kneel ... they have every "right" to do it. I also have the right to my "opinion" of thinking they are idiots for "how" they are protesting. I am not arguing at all that people shouldn't protest for what they believe ... but again, coming from parents who fled a communist country in search of freedom and found it here, I would never burn, step on or disrespect the symbol which represents this country. I am not trying to tell anyone how to think ... simply stating my opinion on the matter. Just because people have the "right" to do something, does not mean that I have to agree with it. People have the right to be racist ... doesn't mean I have to applaud them, but I will always support their freedom to express their beliefs.

I was with you Rey until that last statement, I personally could never support the beliefs or opinions of a racist - are they entitled to their beliefs? Yes absolutely. But I would like to believe we live in a society this day in age too advanced to ever lend support to something like that.

That is the whole point of these protests, because there is a divide, whether people want to admit it or not, even if the platform of what they are using to get their point across is misguided (using the flag).
 

ill

THRILLHO
79,956
16,445
1,033
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I was with you Rey until that last statement, I personally could never support the beliefs or opinions of a racist - are they entitled to their beliefs? Yes absolutely. But I would like to believe we live in a society this day in age too advanced to ever lend support to something like that.

That is the whole point of these protests, because there is a divide, whether people want to admit it or not, even if the platform of what they are using to get their point across is misguided (using the flag).
this.

"the right to be racist" is not something I can get behind. I don't believe anyone should be treated differently because of the color of their skin by anyone. That is not what the flag stands for.
 

knowyourenemy

Well-Known Member
5,985
1,348
173
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I was with you Rey until that last statement, I personally could never support the beliefs or opinions of a racist - are they entitled to their beliefs? Yes absolutely. But I would like to believe we live in a society this day in age too advanced to ever lend support to something like that.

That is the whole point of these protests, because there is a divide, whether people want to admit it or not, even if the platform of what they are using to get their point across is misguided (using the flag).
this.

"the right to be racist" is not something I can get behind. I don't believe anyone should be treated differently because of the color of their skin by anyone. That is not what the flag stands for.

I agree with Rey. Freedom of speech doesn't mean "freedom of speech, as long as I agree with you or it isn't too offense."

I welcome bigots to openly express their views. Get it out in the open so we can know the person's outrageous views and act accordingly.
 

PhillyGreen

Well-Known Member
4,328
591
113
Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
this.

"the right to be racist" is not something I can get behind. I don't believe anyone should be treated differently because of the color of their skin by anyone. That is not what the flag stands for.

I also believe that a person has a right be racist. I do not have to like it nor support it but they have the right. I have experienced a lot of racism in my life. I have been spit on and called all kinds of names. In my era as a kid I could be called the "N" word publicly and nothing would happen. It happened to me so many times when I went to Fels Jr High I lost count. Nothing happened to anyone and the kids there did it all the time. Even in class in front of the teachers and no one said a word. Things started to change not long after I was done there and it is not socially acceptable and as a whole not tolerated anymore. Today those same kids would be expelled for that crap.

Like I said....people have a right to be racist. However that right also comes at a cost. You can be that way all you want but do not expect people to want to deal with it or tolerate it. I don't care if someone does not like me becuase I am black. Hell they can even tell me to my face and I would ignore their dumb ass. The moment they become threatening with their hate things are different and I deal with it a different way.

Kaepernick has a right to protest as well as others. It is their choice. However they should not be surprised by the backlash. They should have realized that most people do not support them. I am a veteran and a minority and his protests piss me off. I will not support him. I will not stand by him but I will not deny him the right to protest.
 

Rey

Well-Known Member
5,325
469
83
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
When I say racism I'm talking about how a person "feels" ... obviously if they act on it in the workplace or any other way it's a whole different ballgame. If a person simply doesn't like me for my race, skin color or beliefs ... it it their prerogative; despite how I feel about it.
 

iceman42

Member
317
20
18
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
My question is, what exactly do you want Kaepernick to do?
I would expect him to lead by example as a leader. Do what Wade is doing, get out there get your hands dirty, set up a non-combative environment to bring two or three sides together to communicate -- from there you create a dialog of change. Dont be a divisive prick by wearing pig socks, be an example of what others can do .. so far he has shown them how to sit.
 

Rey

Well-Known Member
5,325
469
83
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I was with you Rey until that last statement, I personally could never support the beliefs or opinions of a racist - are they entitled to their beliefs? Yes absolutely. But I would like to believe we live in a society this day in age too advanced to ever lend support to something like that.

I in no way shape or form "support" racism ... hell, I'm hispanic and my wife is half black, I'm just saying that with freedom of speech you can't pick and choose. I think kneeling for the anthem sucks, yet obviously many others feel differently. Ditto being a racist ... I think it's horrible, yet others find it acceptable. I'll take that any day over a government telling me how and what I can think and say (like a Cuba).
 

Iggloo

Fly, Eagles Fly
23,183
8,745
533
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 150.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
While I don't agree with this protest I recognize that these players have a right to demonstrate.
 

PhillyGreen

Well-Known Member
4,328
591
113
Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I would not not have problem with his protest if he was actively doing something as well. Malcolm Jenkins from what I have been reading is very active in the community and therfore his demonstration has some traction as far as I am concerned.

I can understand the protests. IMO the protest is a demonstration about the leadership in our communities and country as a whole and to be honest it has been effective because he has everyone's attention. My problem is that Kaepernick has not done shit with it.
 

eaglesnut

Well-Known Member
29,411
5,933
533
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Location
Heaven
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If someone kneeling today during the national anthem leads to a discussion that prevents violence and death in the streets, sign me up, every single time.

That would be nice. Instead though it promotes violence and death in the streets by dividing us. It actually ignores the real violence and death on the hardest of streets. They claim it's all for minority injustice, but a minority is gunning down another minority during the same time as these guys are doing nothing but kneeling. Blaming the flag does what? Taking it out on the flag does what? The entire thing is a miss and it's parasitic upon our great game of football.
 
Top