Eli Manning, the HOF, and my long standing Jim Plunkett comparisom

[Ricky Roma]

I can't argue that, much of it has been my argument against Tom Brady being the GOAT, Dan Marino (just to throw out a name) in that division and this era his whole career, would not be ringless

Well, almost any legendary truly great QB of any era would have at least one ring in today's game given the rule changes and free agency and whatnot. It would take some seriously bad luck to preven that from happening.

 

[Wazmankg]

No because he's Archie's son.

I assume you're joking, because nobody is letting a guy QB their team for 14 years because he's someone's kid.

 

[PhillyGreen]

QB's playing to day should be measured against QB's no earlier than the era of when Aikman and Young played. Some may even argue earlier than that but I don't think so. A player needs to be measured based on his era and not against the stats of other the really old players in the HOF, especially QB's. If playing today QB's like Staubach and Bradshaw would be considered horrible QB's but in their era they were clearly some of the best to ever play the game and in their era they were 1st team all pro's

The QB position is the hardest to get right in the NFL. There are so many failures at this position it is not even funny and it it is also probably the hardest position to make it in the NFL. That is why the standard is so high and there are so few QB's in the position.

These players are the current standard to which a player should get in.....Young, Aikman, Favre, Peyton, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Warner....... Eli does not meet the standard of these players IMO.

Here are a couple players IMO that are not yet finished but if they continue at the rate they are going should make the HOF

Phillip Rivers - I think he is a lock and his numbers are far superior to Eli
Matt Ryan - He has put up fantastic numbers so far and may have about 5 years left
Matthew Stafford - Same as Matt Ryan

These are bubble players IMO. A few may not be done playing but I still don't think they will make it. They are (or were) good players but just don't make the cut IMO and I feel that an argument could be made they are just as good if not better than Eli,

Bledsoe - Look at his numbers and compare them to Eli before you start bashing. While I think Eli's numbers a better but not by much

McNabb - Yup his numbers are better. Eli only played more years to add to his total yard count but McNabbs numbers rae better.

Alex Smith - still playing. Has a lot of good years left and numbers are better.

Matt Hasselbeck - I know I lost my mind right? Look at his numbers. Eli is closer to him than he is the HOF Elite.

Carson Palmer - His numbers are better

Joe Flacco - I think he and Eli are the same type QB. Success is contingent on how good the rest of the team is.

Jay Cutler - Same as Joe Flacco.

 

[Wazmankg]

so hes not really "destroyed" by other HOFers. namath is in for a finger wave and the first 4k yard season, as well as his personality. bigger than the game.

plunkett was a quiet guy. his numbers hold up IMO and the 2 rings cements him.

and he would go in as a raider, not a patriot. i have no skin in this.

Namath was also widely considered one of the best QBs in the game his first 5 seasons when he made 4 pro bowls with 1 1st team all-pro selection. Plunkett was never that. His 2 rings are the literally only thing in his favor.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Namath was also widely considered one of the best QBs in the game his first 5 seasons when he made 4 pro bowls with 1 1st team all-pro selection. Plunkett was never that. His 2 rings are the literally only thing in his favor.

and the hard metrics.

 

[Rock Strongo]

QB's playing to day should be measured against QB's no earlier than the era of when Aikman and Young played. Some may even argue earlier than that but I don't think so. A player needs to be measured based on his era and not against the stats of other the really old players in the HOF, especially QB's. If playing today QB's like Staubach and Bradshaw would be considered horrible QB's but in their era they were clearly some of the best to ever play the game and in their era they were 1st team all pro's

The QB position is the hardest to get right in the NFL. There are so many failures at this position it is not even funny and it it is also probably the hardest position to make it in the NFL. That is why the standard is so high and there are so few QB's in the position.

These players are the current standard to which a player should get in.....Young, Aikman, Favre, Peyton, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Warner....... Eli does not meet the standard of these players IMO.

Here are a couple players IMO that are not yet finished but if they continue at the rate they are going should make the HOF

Phillip Rivers - I think he is a lock and his numbers are far superior to Eli
Matt Ryan - He has put up fantastic numbers so far and may have about 5 years left
Matthew Stafford - Same as Matt Ryan

These are bubble players IMO. A few may not be done playing but I still don't think they will make it. They are (or were) good players but just don't make the cut IMO and I feel that an argument could be made they are just as good if not better than Eli,

Bledsoe - Look at his numbers and compare them to Eli before you start bashing. While I think Eli's numbers a better but not by much

McNabb - Yup his numbers are better. Eli only played more years to add to his total yard count but McNabbs numbers rae better.

Alex Smith - still playing. Has a lot of good years left and numbers are better.

Matt Hasselbeck - I know I lost my mind right? Look at his numbers. Eli is closer to him than he is the HOF Elite.

Carson Palmer - His numbers are better

Joe Flacco - I think he and Eli are the same type QB. Success is contingent on how good the rest of the team is.

Jay Cutler - Same as Joe Flacco.

ive always said drew will be in canton someday. his numbers are better than a lot of HOF QB's.

he turned the franchise around. he has a ring as a backup and started one as well (i threw a TV out my window for that one)

 

[Pure Steel]

Namath was also widely considered one of the best QBs in the game his first 5 seasons when he made 4 pro bowls with 1 1st team all-pro selection. Plunkett was never that. His 2 rings are the literally only thing in his favor.

I would have liked to have seen what a healthy Namath could have done, I know his stats don't come close to the talent he truly had....He had a target on his back and knees from day one upon entering the AFL/NFL....There are many defensive players that regret cheap shotting him from his era...They realized too late that he was helping them....He gave the AFL credibility and also paved the way for players to start getting paid a bit better.....The HBO special was pretty good showing his Alabama days and how really athletic he was before his knees were destroyed.....Bear Bryant called him the most natural athlete that he ever coached....

 

[Wazmankg]

and the hard metrics.

Again, I don't think Eli, Plunkett or Namath should be in the HOF. But if you want me to point out why Namath's career was much more impressive than Plunkett's I'm here for you. It really isn't all that close.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I assume you're joking, because nobody is letting a guy QB their team for 14 years because he's someone's kid.

QB's playing to day should be measured against QB's no earlier than the era of when Aikman and Young played. Some may even argue earlier than that but I don't think so. A player needs to be measured based on his era and not against the stats of other the really old players in the HOF, especially QB's. If playing today QB's like Staubach and Bradshaw would be considered horrible QB's but in their era they were clearly some of the best to ever play the game and in their era they were 1st team all pro's

The QB position is the hardest to get right in the NFL. There are so many failures at this position it is not even funny and it it is also probably the hardest position to make it in the NFL. That is why the standard is so high and there are so few QB's in the position.

These players are the current standard to which a player should get in.....Young, Aikman, Favre, Peyton, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Warner....... Eli does not meet the standard of these players IMO.

Here are a couple players IMO that are not yet finished but if they continue at the rate they are going should make the HOF

Phillip Rivers - I think he is a lock and his numbers are far superior to Eli
Matt Ryan - He has put up fantastic numbers so far and may have about 5 years left
Matthew Stafford - Same as Matt Ryan

These are bubble players IMO. A few may not be done playing but I still don't think they will make it. They are (or were) good players but just don't make the cut IMO and I feel that an argument could be made they are just as good if not better than Eli,

Bledsoe - Look at his numbers and compare them to Eli before you start bashing. While I think Eli's numbers a better but not by much

McNabb - Yup his numbers are better. Eli only played more years to add to his total yard count but McNabbs numbers rae better.

Alex Smith - still playing. Has a lot of good years left and numbers are better.

Matt Hasselbeck - I know I lost my mind right? Look at his numbers. Eli is closer to him than he is the HOF Elite.

Carson Palmer - His numbers are better

Joe Flacco - I think he and Eli are the same type QB. Success is contingent on how good the rest of the team is.

Jay Cutler - Same as Joe Flacco.

Philip Rivers is the greatest big game flop in the history of the league

He can have the numbers, if he wasn't traded on draft day, the Giants would have 2 rings less in their trophy case

 

[Rock Strongo]

Again, I don't think Eli, Plunkett or Namath should be in the HOF. But if you want me to point out why Namath's career was much more impressive than Plunkett's I'm here for you. It really isn't all that close.

i'm talking about these metrics:



career passing yards - plunkett 25,882. namath 27,663

TD's/INT's
namath 173/220
plunkett 164/198

rating?

namath 65.5
plunkett 67.5

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Mcnabb, Alex Smith, Philip Rivers, Matt Stafford, Matt Hasselback

Jesus, that's a who's who of QBs you would never want in a big game in this era

We have gone from "rings don't mean everything" to "rings mean absolutely nothing"

 

[PhillyGreen]

Philip Rivers is the greatest big game flop in the history of the league

Nah....I think that would go to McNabb but if we are really being honest Peyton Manning was one of the most pedestrian playoff QB's I have ever seen.

He can have the numbers, if he wasn't traded on draft day, the Giants would have 2 rings less in their trophy case

I disagree. With that defense and help he had Rivers would have performed better. Eli folds like a lawn chair when he is pressured.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Philip Rivers is the greatest big game flop in the history of the league

He can have the numbers, if he wasn't traded on draft day, the Giants would have 2 rings less in their trophy case

now imagine eli in SD.

theyd still have no rings.

 

[Wazmankg]

I would have liked to have seen what a healthy Namath could have done, I know his stats don't come close to the talent he truly had....He had a target on his back and knees from day one upon entering the AFL/NFL....There are many defensive players that regret cheap shotting him from his era...They realized too late that he was helping them....He gave the AFL credibility and also paved the way for players to start getting paid a bit better.....The HBO special was pretty good showing his Alabama days and how really athletic he was before his knees were destroyed.....Bear Bryant called him the most natural athlete that he ever coached....

He should have retired after 72. His knees were gone.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

now imagine eli in SD.

theyd still have no rings.

Eli doesn't lose to New England

Rivers can't beat them

So those facts speak against that statement

 

[Rock Strongo]

Eli doesn't lose to New England

Rivers can't beat them

So those facts speak against that statement

theyd be on entirely different teams and in entirely different systems. Eli didnt beat the patriots, the giants did.

primarily the defense.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Nah....I think that would go to McNabb but if we are really being honest Peyton Manning was one of the most pedestrian playoff QB's I have ever seen.



I disagree. With that defense and help he had Rivers would have performed better. Eli folds like a lawn chair when he is pressured.

Rivers only had one of the greatest RBs in history, one of the greatest TEs in history and defenses that consistently ranked better than both Super Bowl defenses for the Giants

He is the definition of a choker

 

[PhillyGreen]

Mcnabb, Alex Smith, Philip Rivers, Matt Stafford, Matt Hasselback

Jesus, that's a who's who of QBs you would never want in a big game in this era

We have gone from "rings don't mean everything" to "rings mean absolutely nothing"

To be honest I really don't want Eli in a big game either.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Rivers only had one of the greatest RBs in history, one of the greatest TEs in history and defenses that consistently ranked better than both Super Bowl defenses for the Giants

He is the definition of a choker

he played a playoff game here, bone on bone in his knee. played his heart out.

LT pouted under a poncho on the sideline.

always respected that.

he has a decent 85.2 playoff rating. he had a 116 rating his last 2 playoff games.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

theyd be on entirely different teams and in entirely different systems. Eli didnt beat the patriots, the giants did.

primarily the defense.

Wrong, I'm not gonna retype it for you, go look at the postseason game logs in 07 and 11

He was better than Brady in Both postseason runs, not just the SBs

The Giants defense ranked middle of the pack in both years, people that always talk about the greatness of that defense is the only way from admitting Brady sucked