Dion Phaneuf

[banditshcky11]

He's been constantly linked to Philly for about a year at this point. Now I know he isn't a Norris trophy defense man and his contract is quite large but I can actually see real interest here. I've been thinking about this for a few days now and I don't think money is the issue, I think it's what TOR will want back. Now there is one HUGE thing the Flyers may be able to offer TOR that no one else can and that's no salary retention. I know that may sound really strange but please indulge me for a few minutes.

I firmly believe Vinny will be traded, further more I don't think we'll be on the hook for much more the $1m of his salary if we have to retain any. I also feel like there would be a serious market for Grossmann and Hartnell (if they decided to try to move him, he does have a NTC though but they get waived all the time). I'm 100% sure we could trade Coburn (which wouldn't be the best idea IMO) and get some great assets for him if we went that direction. Now when you add in Pronger's LTIR money, we have plenty of space to fit the contract and Phaneuf would fill a huge gap for us. He's a high end work horse who can hang with some of the best players in the league. Anyone who denies that he is an above average first pairing defense men needs to take a step back and put aside all personal feeling and re-evaluate him.

So knowing we could fit his contract in the question is what would the cost be. TOR will ask for B Schenn or Couturier, the answer to both is no, it could go no further then there. However I wonder what they would say to Laughton and our 1st (might have to add in Hagg or someone else)? I'm not really sold on too many of the guy who will probably be available at 17 in this years draft to be honest. I'm sure most of these first rounders will be good players but I doubt we're going to hit a home run there for the position we desperately need, defense. Also remember TOR wants to move his WHOLE contract.

There is one more guy on TOR's roster I'd like to mention quickly, Cody Franson. Now I'm not sure if he's in TOR's plans or not at this point or even what he'd cost but he would be a great younger defense man to bring in who has a lot of the 2 way skill the Flyer's management team has been saying they covet. I'd consider him a second option to Phaneuf if we are seriously talking to TOR now.


Just putting my thoughts out there on all the speculation. Please feel free to begin with the overpaid, don't want him talk.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Don't want Dion Phaneuf

Move on from that

 

[EVille3]

He's been constantly linked to Philly for about a year at this point. Now I know he isn't a Norris trophy defense man and his contract is quite large but I can actually see real interest here. I've been thinking about this for a few days now and I don't think money is the issue, I think it's what TOR will want back. Now there is one HUGE thing the Flyers may be able to offer TOR that no one else can and that's no salary retention. I know that may sound really strange but please indulge me for a few minutes.

I firmly believe Vinny will be traded, further more I don't think we'll be on the hook for much more the $1m of his salary if we have to retain any. I also feel like there would be a serious market for Grossmann and Hartnell (if they decided to try to move him, he does have a NTC though but they get waived all the time). I'm 100% sure we could trade Coburn (which wouldn't be the best idea IMO) and get some great assets for him if we went that direction. Now when you add in Pronger's LTIR money, we have plenty of space to fit the contract and Phaneuf would fill a huge gap for us. He's a high end work horse who can hang with some of the best players in the league. Anyone who denies that he is an above average first pairing defense men needs to take a step back and put aside all personal feeling and re-evaluate him.

So knowing we could fit his contract in the question is what would the cost be. TOR will ask for B Schenn or Couturier, the answer to both is no, it could go no further then there. However I wonder what they would say to Laughton and our 1st (might have to add in Hagg or someone else)? I'm not really sold on too many of the guy who will probably be available at 17 in this years draft to be honest. I'm sure most of these first rounders will be good players but I doubt we're going to hit a home run there for the position we desperately need, defense. Also remember TOR wants to move his WHOLE contract.

There is one more guy on TOR's roster I'd like to mention quickly, Cody Franson. Now I'm not sure if he's in TOR's plans or not at this point or even what he'd cost but he would be a great younger defense man to bring in who has a lot of the 2 way skill the Flyer's management team has been saying they covet. I'd consider him a second option to Phaneuf if we are seriously talking to TOR now.


Just putting my thoughts out there on all the speculation. Please feel free to begin with the overpaid, don't want him talk.

So am I following this correctly? You want to move Vinny, Hartnell, Grossmann, Coburn, our 1st and possibly Hagg just to bring in Phaneuf? Granted we would get some pieces back from trades that didn't go to Toronto but that is an awful lot of movement to bring in 1 defenseman. Pass on this scenario sir...

 

[JBM73]

Just to be clear Phaneuf is the TYPE of player this team needs, just not at $7 mil per for 7(?) more years. Perhaps if Toronto agreed to retain $2mil per...

 

[lasgop8]

That would mean breaking up a playoff team to bring in Phaneuf. To many changes for this addition I vote No

 

[banditshcky11]

So am I following this correctly? You want to move Vinny, Hartnell, Grossmann, Coburn, our 1st and possibly Hagg just to bring in Phaneuf? Granted we would get some pieces back from trades that didn't go to Toronto but that is an awful lot of movement to bring in 1 defenseman. Pass on this scenario sir...

I personally want to move Vinny and Grossmann.

I was just pointing out all the other players the that "insiders" were saying could be on the move or the Flyers would move. The point was with trading 2 roster players we could fit a salary like that in. I'm not sure how after re-reading what I wrote you got out of it that all those players had to be traded but I did say "Laughton and our 1st (might have to add in Hagg or someone else)" for Phaneuf after moving other salary out.

 

[awaz]

I just don't like the idea of trying to find a #1 through trades or free agency. Every single time you have to overpay for them. Yes it's a critical role, but I think any deal that brings in a #1 caliber dman costs enough that you end up hurting the team. Short and long term.

It sucks, but in today's NHL I think you have to wait, draft, and pray, for your #1 dman if you want to be competitive. Otherwise, you got with 6 top 4 dmen like the flyers are doing. And hope that the fact that you can play all 6 guys for 12+ minutes instead of trying to hide an AHL player during his 6 minutes/game. Right now the Flyers have Hagg, Morin, and Ghost, all of which could develop in to top pair guys. Will they? It's anyone's guess. But IMO, it's better to wait and find out if one of them does, than to trade/sign a #1 dman.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I just don't like the idea of trying to find a #1 through trades or free agency. Every single time you have to overpay for them. Yes it's a critical role, but I think any deal that brings in a #1 caliber dman costs enough that you end up hurting the team. Short and long term.

It sucks, but in today's NHL I think you have to wait, draft, and pray, for your #1 dman if you want to be competitive. Otherwise, you got with 6 top 4 dmen like the flyers are doing. And hope that the fact that you can play all 6 guys for 12+ minutes instead of trying to hide an AHL player during his 6 minutes/game. Right now the Flyers have Hagg, Morin, and Ghost, all of which could develop in to top pair guys. Will they? It's anyone's guess. But IMO, it's better to wait and find out if one of them does, than to trade/sign a #1 dman.

Let's look at the teams with number one d-men:

Rangers: Ryan McDonagh - via trade(I guess this goes into the praying spectrum)
Blue Jackets: Ryan Murray - Drafted
Bruins: Zdeno Chara - Free Agent(One of few cases where top d-man gets to FA)
Red Wings: Niklas Kronwall - Drafted
Lightning: Victor Hedman - Drafted
Canadiens: P.K. Subban - Drafted
Senators: Erik Karlsson - Drafted
Predators: Shea Weber - Drafted
Blackhawks: Duncan Keith/Brent Seabrook - Drafted
Blues: Alex Pietrangelo - Drafted
Jets: Zach Bogosian - Drafted
Kings: Drew Doughty - Drafted
Ducks: Hampus Lindholm - Drafted
Sharks: Marc-Edouard Vlasic - Drafted
Coyotes: Keith Yandle/Oliver-Ekman Larsson - Drafted

That's pretty much half of the league right there, and all but 3 of those teams made the playoffs

So you have a pretty good point there, I don't know if there's a d-man available that you can get in a deal that's going to make a difference - Dion Phaneuf will not make this team better when it comes to trying to win a Cup in the upcoming years

 

[Hextall]

No Thanks, this is not the Calgary Phaneuf. If you watched him at all this year he is a turnover machine, makes bad decisions and was at least partially to blame for their historic slide. That and with the ridiculous contract he just signed, this is exactly the type of trap we want to get away from. Putting Hagg in the deal is an instant no to me even if I thought he was worth the rest of the offer. Exactly the type of deal we have all criticized in the past, so no thanks. I would much rather cultivate our youth.

 

[Retroram52]

Anytime a club as to go into their roster and select four or five guys plus draft picks to generate assets for one player, unless that player is a superstar who is not at the end of his career, I think it is just a bad move.

Phaneuf is another reach in defensivement. Take the long-term approach which is we will go after the cup but it won't be achieved in the short-term. Add the pieces as we go and move the guys at the end of their careers and I think Hextall is doing it the right way to guarantee another long-term winner just like the Kings have done it. Count me out on any trade for Phaneuf.

 

[awaz]

Let's look at the teams with number one d-men:

Rangers: Ryan McDonagh - via trade(I guess this goes into the praying spectrum)
Blue Jackets: Ryan Murray - Drafted
Bruins: Zdeno Chara - Free Agent(One of few cases where top d-man gets to FA)
Red Wings: Niklas Kronwall - Drafted
Lightning: Victor Hedman - Drafted
Canadiens: P.K. Subban - Drafted
Senators: Erik Karlsson - Drafted
Predators: Shea Weber - Drafted
Blackhawks: Duncan Keith/Brent Seabrook - Drafted
Blues: Alex Pietrangelo - Drafted
Jets: Zach Bogosian - Drafted
Kings: Drew Doughty - Drafted
Ducks: Hampus Lindholm - Drafted
Sharks: Marc-Edouard Vlasic - Drafted
Coyotes: Keith Yandle/Oliver-Ekman Larsson - Drafted

That's pretty much half of the league right there, and all but 3 of those teams made the playoffs

So you have a pretty good point there, I don't know if there's a d-man available that you can get in a deal that's going to make a difference - Dion Phaneuf will not make this team better when it comes to trying to win a Cup in the upcoming years

Thanks for the research haha. I didn't think I was THAT accurate in my theory. And damn the rangers for stealing mcdonagh. They got sooooo lucky there.

But ya, just makes me believe more in being patient with the defense. It's not what we want, but it could be exactly what we want in 2-3 years if we just sit tight and fill it with stop gaps, ie timonen, for a couple more seasons.

 

[raptorlife4]

BURN THIS FUCKING THREAD NOW

He just signed a 7 year 7 million dollar deal and before that deal kicked in the fans want him out of town.

He isnt a horrible d-man but he is way over paid and for way to long

trust me NO

 

[DragonfromTO]

Let's look at the teams with number one d-men:

Rangers: Ryan McDonagh - via trade(I guess this goes into the praying spectrum)
Blue Jackets: Ryan Murray - Drafted
Bruins: Zdeno Chara - Free Agent(One of few cases where top d-man gets to FA)
Red Wings: Niklas Kronwall - Drafted
Lightning: Victor Hedman - Drafted
Canadiens: P.K. Subban - Drafted
Senators: Erik Karlsson - Drafted
Predators: Shea Weber - Drafted
Blackhawks: Duncan Keith/Brent Seabrook - Drafted
Blues: Alex Pietrangelo - Drafted
Jets: Zach Bogosian - Drafted
Kings: Drew Doughty - Drafted
Ducks: Hampus Lindholm - Drafted
Sharks: Marc-Edouard Vlasic - Drafted
Coyotes: Keith Yandle/Oliver-Ekman Larsson - Drafted

That's pretty much half of the league right there, and all but 3 of those teams made the playoffs

So you have a pretty good point there, I don't know if there's a d-man available that you can get in a deal that's going to make a difference - Dion Phaneuf will not make this team better when it comes to trying to win a Cup in the upcoming years

Suter's not a #1?

 

[Retroram52]

I agree with awaz.

 

[awaz]

Suter's not a #1?

Sure he just missed one.

And to the topic, the flyers tried to get suter and by all accounts offered the appropriate amount. Can't do anything about that.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Suter's not a #1?

Like awaz said, I missed a few, but you get the point that a lot of the top d-men in this league were drafted by their own team

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Flyers would be better off taking Kris Letang off my Pens' hands than getting Dion Phaneuf IMO

 

[Cobiemonster]

Flyers would be better off taking Kris Letang off my Pens' hands than getting Dion Phaneuf IMO

Kris Letang is the better player in all honesty and if he stays healthy, he can get back to some of his past success, but the contract is still bad

And besides the Flyers and Penguins aren't making trades with each other

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Kris Letang is the better player in all honesty and if he stays healthy, he can get back to some of his past success, but the contract is still bad

And besides the Flyers and Penguins aren't making trades with each other

IDK, Recchi & Tocchet worked out well for both teams.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Like awaz said, I missed a few, but you get the point that a lot of the top d-men in this league were drafted by their own team

Sure but it's not really a D specific thing, pretty much the same thing is true of #1 centres as well. Really with centres it's even more bleak, if you look at the list of #1 centres there are a ton of them that were top 3 picks and many #1s, whereas on that D list only Hedman, Murray, Doughty and Bogosian went that high and none of them were #1.