Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2015 Thread

[MiamiVice]

I have not convinced myself 100% yet....maybe 88% convinced, but.......Time to look into trades for Jose Iglesias. Sell high!. Currently injured - again. Not a fast healer and does not seem to want to tough out injuries. Hot dog tendencies too. He is hanging on to a .300 BA (barely) but that comes off a .330 BABIP. His offensive numbers are a little empty (might have been better if batting 2nd in order more often) so his oWAR is low. Yes - a gifted fielder, but unless the front office is going to go all out to sign ground ball pitchers, perhaps Iglesias could be a trade candidate. If he could bring a heavy hitting outfielder or 3B, I'd listen to offers. Sweet fielding SS might be too big of a luxury for a team that will be trying to dig themselves out of the cellar. Arms and bats!

You do realize in 4 seasons.. and almost 1000 career at bats... his career BABIP is .328 right?

 

[broncosmitty]

Roller coaster ride for Rajai tonight.

That dropped fly ball made no difference what so ever, but was still ugly.

GREAT throw from Sizemore there. Hahaha.

 

[MiamiVice]

Verhagen, Wilson and Kyle Ryan proving a point that the Tigers bullpen could be much better if they just put the best talent they had there instead of trying to force guys like Rondon, Nathan, or Gorzelanny to get outs...


You DFA Feliz, Al Al, and make Rondon actually learn to throw strikes in the minors... and you put some of the guys like Verhagen, Ryan, and Farmer into the pen... and it might end up being a strength. If the Tigers could just figure out that its better to move guys into bullpen arms rather than have 6 fringe #5 starters... they might actually start improving and building a pen.

Here is the best part... The Tigers have more guys like Verhagen and Ryan in the minors they could easily use in the bullpen next year... instead of using these guys like Rondon that are supposedly closers from the time they start pitching in A ball or paying old shit heads like Joe Nathan.

 

[MiamiVice]

Ron Gardenhire next manager

Ron Gardenhire Rumors, Gossip & News |...

I don't know if I want Ron Gardenhire... I don't think he would be the best fit for the Tigers... Not saying he wouldn't be a massive improvement... I just don't think the way the team is build he would be the best option.

 

[MiamiVice]

Tigers DFA Daniel Fields.

Cespedes opens door to sign with Mets this winter.

Avila trades VMart and $10mil to the White Sox for John Danks and Adam LaRoche. Save $14 mil after letting Danks and LaRoche walk after one year. (Or trade at deadline if they actually have any value)

why the hell would the white sox make this trade?

 

[Howie115]

You do realize in 4 seasons.. and almost 1000 career at bats... his career BABIP is .328 right?

Although it seems a bit high to be sustainable, he gets a lot of infield hits, which helps the BABIP. I always thought with his defense, he could hit .250 and I'd be satisfied. .300 is a huge bonus. Definitely worried that he seems to be a bit fragile.

 

[Howie115]

You DFA Feliz, Al Al, and make Rondon actually learn to throw strikes in the minors... and you put some of the guys like Verhagen, Ryan, and Farmer into the pen... and it might end up being a strength. If the Tigers could just figure out that its better to move guys into bullpen arms rather than have 6 fringe #5 starters... they might actually start improving and building a pen.

Always thought Al Al's low ERA through about mid-season was a bit empty, because his WHIP was about 1.5, and he was allowing a lot of inherited runners to score. Now the ERA isn't even good (4.39). It looked like he had finally figured out how to limit walks last season (21 in 57.1 IP), but now those are right back up where they used to be (30 in 55.1 IP). Not worth re-signing, IMO.

And Rondon is a LONG way from being an MLB closer. Brad is letting him try to prove otherwise the rest of the year, but you simply can't have closers coming in and regularly walking 2 of the first 3 batters. Not sure who else can close on the current roster. I know Alex Wilson is a possibility, but his K rate (38 in 65.1 IP) is not what you usually see in a closer. I definitely don't want to see the Tigers spending big bucks here, though.

 

[Howie115]

WHICH are YOU?

5. You predicted 90+ wins for the Tigers in 2015....but you had a lot of IF's attached.

Below is my post from Page 4 of this thread. I never mentioned 90 wins, but I did use the word "IF" twice. So I guess #5 is the closest.

The doom & gloom sentiment is legit. The Tigers are counting on a LOT of players to bounce back from injuries and/or off years.

Rondon -- Missed all of 2014
Iglesias -- Missed all of 2014
Hanrahan -- TJ surgery in 2013 / could not return in 2014 / not even on 40-man roster
Verlander -- injured / worst season since 2008
Sanchez -- missed two months in 2014 / has never thrown 200+ innings in career / only made 30+ starts three times in career
Cabrera -- recovering from offseason foot and ankle surgeries
V-Mart -- new injury to knee
Krol -- Wore out badly after All-Star break / finished season in Toledo
Nathan -- 40 years old / coming off a 4.81 ERA & 7 blown saves season
Soria -- Sucked balls after becoming a Tiger
Cespedes -- Has a .252 BA and .298 OPB over the last two seasons (defensive upgrade, though)

That's 11 players. A few too many question marks for me. If 7 or 8 are good to go, the Tigers will contend for the ALC. But that's a big "if".

- - - - - -

The biggest upgrades I see (counting on some "ifs") are speed and defense.

Iglesias: Upgrade in both defense and speed.

Gose: At least A-Jax's equal in CF, but with a better arm. Plus-speed.

Cespedes: Better LF than anything we've had out there for years. Cannon arm. Good baserunning speed.

 

[MiamiVice]

Always thought Al Al's low ERA through about mid-season was a bit empty, because his WHIP was about 1.5, and he was allowing a lot of inherited runners to score. Now the ERA isn't even good (4.39). It looked like he had finally figured out how to limit walks last season (21 in 57.1 IP), but now those are right back up where they used to be (30 in 55.1 IP). Not worth re-signing, IMO.

And Rondon is a LONG way from being an MLB closer. Brad is letting him try to prove otherwise the rest of the year, but you simply can't have closers coming in and regularly walking 2 of the first 3 batters. Not sure who else can close on the current roster. I know Alex Wilson is a possibility, but his K rate (38 in 65.1 IP) is not what you usually see in a closer. I definitely don't want to see the Tigers spending big bucks here, though.

I will be the first to suggest Verhagen... I love the way he carries himself. The kid just has an air of confidence. Brad has literally put him in the shittiest situations possiblly like inserting him in with bases loaded and no outs... or 2 on 1 out... and he has gotten the job done. Brad has used him in multiple innings almost every time out... and he has produced... I think the Tigers need to take a look at Verhagen or Wilson in the closer role for next year. Just let it sort itself out. I honestly believe Verhagen, Farmer, Wilson, Hardy, Ryan, and some combination of free agent signing (low key) or a guy like knudsen/ferrell/rondon/mantiply could end up being a very solid bullpen. The Tigers have plenty of arms that are fringe starters they could move to the pen also in AA or AAA. I say let them come to camp and compete for a role.. Even a guy like Thad Weber could end up being a decent reliever... He has had some success in that role in the MLB before in limited innings.

Take a look at when KC started getting good. Its when they moved guys like Wade Davis and Hochevar from their rotation and into the pen... Fringe #5 starters make great relievers.

 

[MiamiVice]

Iffy just likes to point out negatives... Its what he does.

The Tigers season has a lot of positives. Rarely does a team win its division or make the playoffs 5 years in a row. Its not the end of the world... or franchise. It in no way means they are falling back into the basement. They ended the 2008 season in last place and were back to contending very quickly... with much less talent than they have on the roster right now. Acting like all the sudden the Tigers will stop spending to win is completely an overreaction. THEY HAVE TO SPEND NEXT YEAR AND 2017!!! THEIR TV CONTRACT IS COMING UP! KEEPING RATINGS UP MEANS A POSSIBLE 3-4 BILLION DOLLAR DEAL OVER 25 YRS.

Tigers are top 10 in terms of market size. Top Ten in terms of attendance over the last 5 years. Top Ten in TV ratings the last 5 years. They are positioned very well to get a mega tv deal after 2017. Even teams like the Diamondbacks got a 1 billion deal and they have no where near the ratings and draw of the Tigers.

Positives for next year

• the roster is young and about to get younger - average age is around 26 now. they may have a few guys in the mid to late 30's but most are very young like McCann, JD, and Iglesias. even the rotation won't be that old next year.. verlander will only be 33 and he will be the oldest barring a strange free agent signing.
• believe it or not... the Tigers are LOADED with fringe #5 starters they can use to stabilize the bullpen
• they will get a high draft pick to develop and help the farm - tigers need young talent infusions.. they will get that barring a surge out of the top 10 in the draft and signing a free agent with a qualifying offer.
• vmart and verlander should be healthy to start the year - neither had a spring training this year... vmart hasn't looked like himself at any point this year.
• tyler collins looks like he can at the very least handle a bench role and maybe more
• a ton of contracts come off the books and can allow avila to let young cheap talent fight for roles instead of having to anoint a late 30's relievers as late innings guys when they don't have the best stuff.
• Verhagen is showing he could be a real asset in the bullpen next year.
• kc is going to have an all most impossible time maintaining its current team next year because of an exploding payroll / the indians are the indians / the white sox have a ton of problems in their rotation / the twins should be good but they also have their question marks. The Tigers could easily jump back to win the division next year.
• the tigers have drafted a lot of pitchers over the last 3 years and that influx is going to start moving into the AAA/MLB levels. Guys like Ziomek/Chad Green/Mantiply/Fulmer/Voelker all could see call ups next year and are adding depth to the upper levels. most tigers fans don't realize this.. but the tigers low a ball squads have actually performed quite well the last few seasons and those prospects are making their way up the ladder. not every prospect needs to be a highly ranked guy to make a difference. especially as a reliever.
• a new manager and bench / role coaches

 

[MiamiVice]

The Tigers need to stop trying to develop relievers and just start developing pitchers. Their biggest flaw is taking guys like melvin mercedes and bruce rondon and trying to teach them to be a closer instead of taking a guy like verhagen or chad green who has better overall pitching ability and making them into a bullpen arm. The Tigers were so worried about having plenty of starting pitching depth in the minors that they didn't even think to take from some of it to build a bullpen... Stop worrying about who the closer is and start putting the best possibly arm in the pen...

Chad Green K'ed 137 against only 44 walks people in 148 innings at AA... he is never going to be a MLB starter... but I would guarantee he can get more clean innings as a reliever in the MLB TODAY than Al Al.

 

[Howie115]

I will be the first to suggest Verhagen... I love the way he carries himself. The kid just has an air of confidence. Brad has literally put him in the shittiest situations possiblly like inserting him in with bases loaded and no outs... or 2 on 1 out... and he has gotten the job done. Brad has used him in multiple innings almost every time out... and he has produced...

His K-rate isn't great, either, but one thing he does better than most Tiger RPs is throw first-pitch strikes. And he works from ahead in the count much better. I'm really getting tired of seeing Rondon or Al Al get ahead 1-2 on a hitter, then they try to nibble and wind up walking the guy.

VerHagen's walk rate at the MLB level isn't great (12 BB in 20.1 IP / 5.3 BB/9), but I'm sure that's just small sample size. His walk rate in the minors is 2.9 BB/9.

 

[MiamiVice]

His K-rate isn't great, either, but one thing he does better than most Tiger RPs is throw first-pitch strikes. And he works from ahead in the count much better. I'm really getting tired of seeing Rondon or Al Al get ahead 1-2 on a hitter, then they try to nibble and wind up walking the guy.

VerHagen's walk rate at the MLB level isn't great (12 BB in 20.1 IP / 5.3 BB/9), but I'm sure that's just small sample size. His walk rate in the minors is 2.9 BB/9.

Verhagen throws strikes and has a very high ground ball rate. He has the tools to strike people out... high 90's fastball.. curve... The key is he is getting outs. I don't care how he does it.

 

[MiamiVice]

I would rather have a bullpen of 7 guys that can all get outs.. to much is put on the closer role... Who cares who the closer is? If everyone is getting outs.. it doesn't matter. The Tigers don't need a closer... they need 7 guys in their bullpen that can get outs without giving up runs.

 

[MiamiVice]

Teams like the cards, giants, marlins, and tampa are not sitting in rooms worrying about who their closer is during spring training.. they are worried about getting the best 7 man combination of pitchers for their bullpen... Where a guy pitches gets sorted out as the season goes on... And they have consistently good bullpens. Maybe the Tigers should be more worried about getting their best 12 pitchers on the MLB roster. Figure out your 5 starters and then get the next 7 guys into the bullpen... Keep one or two guys in AAA stretched out to start if needed.. but other than those guys... the next best in line should be in the pen.

 

[MiamiVice]

Astros’ Paulino Another Find in Recent Trade | FanGraphs Baseball

fun read... about how tigers prospects that were traded for veras to houston are now considered steals and have real big league potential... you want to know how you go from 1st to last? you trade your legit prospects to teams for shitheads like veras.

 

[Iffster]

I always love reading stuff from fans who tout prospects. I wonder if they keep score of how many of their "predictions" come true? I know guys like Steven Moya and Buck Farmer would be interested. Of course...I think we are suppose to forget the "mistakes". (Don't forget the ''qualifiers'', man!)

 

[MiamiVice]

I always love reading stuff from fans who tout prospects. I wonder if they keep score of how many of their "predictions" come true? I know guys like Steven Moya and Buck Farmer would be interested. Of course...I think we are suppose to forget the "mistakes". (Don't forget the ''qualifiers'', man!)

I love reading stuff from guys that love to point out nothing but negatives and take joy in seeing their team perform poorly just so they can say "I told you so".

 

[MiamiVice]

Iffy would rather the Tigers not draft or sign any prospects at all.. Screw the farm.. they don't need it. Screw signing free agents too... heck... lets just fold the entire franchise... lol. Iffy you crack me up. I am surprised you haven't been around more frequently lately with the Tigers losing. I know how much pleasure that gives you.

 

[Iffster]

lmao....over-react much?