Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2015 Thread

[broncosmitty]

point being, Benoit had gotten better from 31-35, the guy was peaking and proved so in SD.

Det had the player in hand, but left it to find greener pastures and failed.

In DDs defense, it's not like San Diego exactly wanted him to close. They just paid him closer money.

Would have been an nice asset the last few seasons for sure. So would Andrew Miller, but what can you do?

 

[MiamiVice]

point being, Benoit had gotten better from 31-35, the guy was peaking and proved so in SD.

Det had the player in hand, but left it to find greener pastures and failed.

LOL at this guy trying to say relievers peak years are 36+... you didn't know how old he was bums... just admit it you clown... you thought he was younger.. its ok.. we know that was the case.. you don't have to argue idiotic points... You can name 10 relievers out of the 1,000,000,000 that have pitched in the mlb that were even remotely good at that age.

Pitchers don't "peak" in their late 30's... a handful have had success... but if you think Nathan was at his peak at the age of 37... you obviously can't read stat sheets. You don't invest 8-10 mil+ on pitchers 35 yrs or older... its not smart.. contracts that push into this territory end up as issues more times than not...

I know you just didn't know how old he was.. and instead of admitting it.. you try to make up some clown argument... just like you said you didn't see kimbrel's sophomore year stats... you didn't see any of his stats... freshman or sophomore... just admit it... you look like a god damn fool arguing stuff like this.

Joe Nathan Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Yeah... he peaked at 37... i guess his age 29-34 stretch he was just getting warmed up...

Treavor Hoffman peaked at 37 too you say? LOL really?
Trevor Hoffman Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

Do you even know what the definition of "peaked" is? It doesn't mean they had good years at that age... it means they had their best years.... Just because a guy's career extended into his late 30's to early 40's doesn't mean he "peaked" then. I am sure you are going to try to argue your point.. but I made mine... everyone that sees you post can tell how much of a moron you are.

Your old Royal buddies from CBS can't stand you da55bums... why is that? I can chat with them no problem... and they talk shit about you all the time... huh.. i guess even though trailer trash clowns can see how much of idiot you are...

 

[MiamiVice]

what did Nathan do at 36?

at the age of 36 joe nathan actually had one of his worst years as a pro.... coming off TJ.. he had an era of 4.84 with only 14 saves in 44.2 innings

 

[MiamiVice]

In DDs defense, it's not like San Diego exactly wanted him to close. They just paid him closer money.

Would have been an nice asset the last few seasons for sure. So would Andrew Miller, but what can you do?

I don't think Miller would have done much good for the Tigers this year... the moves that put the stamp on this season were taking greene and simon into our rotation.... Obviously Verlander's injury cost the Tigers a lot of games... But the Tigers would have been better off signing an aged vet like Chris Young and keeping Robbie Ray than doing what they did.. it would have saved prospects.... for nothing more than to use at a later date on better players on in season trades or at the deadline... DD could not sit down with me and get me to buy that even he believed he was getting good deals with the last 3 or so trades he made... I mean seriously... What he paid for Soria, Simon, and Greene even if they would have panned out was a lot.. only soria was actually a proven commodity at the time...

 

[MiamiVice]

Tigers struggles are directly connect to

A) Simon and Greene sucking ass
B) Verlander's injury keeping him out and taking time for him to get right
C) Sanchez not being right all year

No bullpen arm was going to change that. No position player was going to save them. Their starting rotation was broken from day one.

Hopefully Avila is using this time in the season to formulate a plan to rebuild the rotation. Because the offense should be just fine next year even if they use Moya or Collins in LF. I have a bad feeling he is going to try to focus on the bullpen.. but he would be smart to just get 2 starters.. one top end guy and one reliable inning eater like a buerhle or gallardo... and leave the young pitchers in our system as depth to use in the bullpen or in AAA to start if injuries happen. The Tigers could use Farmer, Verhagen, or Ryan in the pen and have Boyd and Fulmer in AAA if injuries happen to call up... I would rather see them go with young cheap arms in the pen rather than gamble and put the money into the bullpen in free agency... They can always make in season trades up to the deadline to add relievers... its much harder and costlier to get a starter in season. Just because he has 35-45 mil to play with doesn't mean he has to use it...

I would also like to see him sign JD Martinez to a long term contract that buys out his arb years.. if JD has another season like this one next year.. his arbitration is going to be nuts... might as well bite the bullet and give the guy a 4/5 year deal worth 50 mil now and save the money... He is going to get 7 or 8 mil this year in arbitration anyways... so if you can get him to sign a 4/5 yr 50 mil deal to get him through age 31/32... they should do it.

 

[MiamiVice]

Al Avila's to do list should be as follows

1) Sign a top end free agent starter
2) Sign a reliable middle of the road free agent starter
3) Sign JD to a long term contract that buys out his arbitration years and get a few extra years too
4) Possibly make a trade using middle of the ranking prospects for a proven LFer or sign a free agent like Alejandro De Aza or even see if Rajai Davis would come back on the cheap.
5) Stay clear of spending big on free agent relievers ( nobody is worth anything that is available )

They need to DFA Feliz (he is arbitration eligible) and al alburquerque ( also arbitration eligible and not worth what he will get)

 

[MiamiVice]

Yeah it's very odd how he was the lone great BP acquisition and we probably questioned that signing the most prior..

Actually.. I would say his best bullpen acquisitions were al alburquerque, blaine hardy, and alex wilson.

 

[broncosmitty]

I don't think Miller would have done much good for the Tigers this year... the moves that put the stamp on this season were taking greene and simon into our rotation.... Obviously Verlander's injury cost the Tigers a lot of games... But the Tigers would have been better off signing an aged vet like Chris Young and keeping Robbie Ray than doing what they did.. it would have saved prospects.... for nothing more than to use at a later date on better players on in season trades or at the deadline... DD could not sit down with me and get me to buy that even he believed he was getting good deals with the last 3 or so trades he made... I mean seriously... What he paid for Soria, Simon, and Greene even if they would have panned out was a lot.. only soria was actually a proven commodity at the time...

I think Miller would have helped a great deal.

As the 8th inning guy or the closer, or a lefty specialist, or back into the rotation.

One less bad option wouldn't have been an option. Tbh, it doesn't require much to be a help to the Tigers pitching staff. (I wasn't saying we should have signed him for big money over the offseason. Just mentioned him as talent DD traded. I'd love to have Furbush back too. But it was a good deal when he was dealt.)

 

[broncosmitty]

If you want New Mexico gone and don't want to spend money on the pen, it's going to be worse.

and I'm no fan of AlAl.

 

[Howie115]

Would have been an nice asset the last few seasons for sure. So would Andrew Miller, but what can you do?

I know you're talking about the chance to re-acquire Miller this past offseason. But at least the Tigers got Miguel Cabrera in the original Miller deal. They got nothing for Benoit, they just let him go.

 

[burfboy]

There's no way the Tigers could even think about signing David again.

 

[Howie115]

There's no way the Tigers could even think about signing David again.

Agreed. Especially being a lefty, Price will get a contract north of what Scherzer got.

 

[Howie115]

Well, it looks like Vice's wish will come true. The Tigers now have the second-worst record in the AL. Barring a strong September (and with this suckass rotation, I don't see it), the Tigers should finish Bottom-10.

 

[MiamiVice]

If you want New Mexico gone and don't want to spend money on the pen, it's going to be worse.

and I'm no fan of AlAl.

Al Al era of around 3.5 is not worth the 3-4 mil he is going to get in arbitration... For that money you can get a guy that is much better... The Rays don't have a single bullpen arm making more than 600k... and they have a solid pen... Its a waste of cash to give guys you don't trust in pressure situations 3 or 4 million a year....

I actually have no problem with the guy.. I just think its a complete waste as there are guys in the minors that can put up the numbers he has this year... But then again.. according to da55bums.. he is not in his prime years of 36+ so maybe the Tigers should keep him around until he is 38 so he can be the closer in his prime. LOL

 

[MiamiVice]

Well, it looks like Vice's wish will come true. The Tigers now have the second-worst record in the AL. Barring a strong September (and with this suckass rotation, I don't see it), the Tigers should finish Bottom-10.

I may not be fun to watch for the next month.. but like I have said before... its in the franchises best interest to just lay down and take it the last few weeks. Call up as many relievers as they can and test them out for next year... DFA guys like gorzelanny, feliz, and zeid (on the 40 man in the minors but sucks ass) and put some of the possible relievers for next year on the 40 man and call them up. I would rather see Ferrell, Mantiply, Knudsen, Verhagen, and maybe another guy or two get the butterflies out this last month.. and see if they have what it takes... If the Tigers can field a bullpen that is even average next year with in house guys, and put almost all of the money available into signing 2 good to great starters and extending JD martinez.... that is in their best interest.. I just want to see the Tigers be able to field a bullpen as good as the marlins... thats not asking much.

 

[MiamiVice]

Agreed. Especially being a lefty, Price will get a contract north of what Scherzer got.

I don't think any pitcher over the age of 30 is worth a 7 yr 210 million dollar contract... its just stupid money that is thrown away. Its one thing to give that kind of money to a 25 yr old or even a 27 yr old... but a 30 yr old... you are lucky to get 2-3 premium years and then you will be eating 5 years of average to shit production.

Position players are another story... for all the people that poo poo Miguel Cabrera's contract... I am willing to bet he can still be an extremely good hitter at the age of 39.... I am not that confident Price can be remotely a 30 mil a yr player at the age of 37.

 

[broncosmitty]

Al Al era of around 3.5 is not worth the 3-4 mil he is going to get in arbitration... For that money you can get a guy that is much better... The Rays don't have a single bullpen arm making more than 600k... and they have a solid pen... Its a waste of cash to give guys you don't trust in pressure situations 3 or 4 million a year....

I actually have no problem with the guy.. I just think its a complete waste as there are guys in the minors that can put up the numbers he has this year... But then again.. according to da55bums.. he is not in his prime years of 36+ so maybe the Tigers should keep him around until he is 38 so he can be the closer in his prime. LOL

Who?

Who in the Tigers system could step in and replace AlAl? (Again, I don't even think he's good, I just don't see what we've got on the farm being better. Atleast not that quickly.)

Please don't say Buck Farmer...

 

[MiamiVice]

Who?

Who in the Tigers system could step in and replace AlAl? (Again, I don't even think he's good, I just don't see what we've got on the farm being better. Atleast not that quickly.)

Please don't say Buck Farmer...

It remains to be seen if Buck Farmer could or couldn't put up a 3.5 era as a reliever... I would bet he could... but that being said... Look at what Verhagen is doing so far... and he is half the prospect Farmer is...

My guess is any number of guys could come up and pitch to a 3.5 era... for christ's sakes.. Luke Putkonen had an era of 3.03 in 29 innings one year...

Who was Blaine Hardy before being called up to the bullpen?

Thad Weber (starter in AAA) has a career era of 2.4 as a reliever in the majors in 15 innings (small sample size but none the less.. that is 15 appearances)



Look.. I know you have no confidence in guys in the Tigers minors.. but do you have any idea how many scrub starting pitchers end up as good relievers? Joe Nathan was absolutely shit as a starter...

Its not that hard to find a reliever that can keep his era under 3.5 for an entire season.. how many times do I have to point out the marlins... who have a middle of the road farm system by the way... and how they keep pumping out better than league average relief pitching... only a tigers fan or their front office seems to think its hard to find a reliever that has the ability to get 3 outs without giving up a run on the regular.

 

[MiamiVice]

Joe Mantiply - lefty
Melvin Mercedes
Jeff Ferrell
Tommy Collier
Josh Turley - lefty
Matt Crouse
Paul Voelker
Calvin Drummond
Tyler Ford
Endrys Briceno

all could come up and do what Al Al is doing and not surprise me.... especially guys like voelker and drummond... i am willing to bet knudsen will eventually settle into being a decent reliever as well.. his pitches have great movement on them.. outside of a few bad pitches over the plate that got hit for HR... he has actually pitched pretty well... for a guy that is in his first month of mlb level. if idiot brad ausmus didn't leave the kid in for 1.2 innings the last time he was in game action.. his era wouldn't be anywhere near where it is now.. he was lights out the first inning that game....

 

[MiamiVice]

take a look at buck farmers starts... more times than not.. he gets into the 4th or 5th inning before he even gives up his second hit... the problem he has is obviously lack of adjustment... batters are adjusting to him and he is not to them. you don't need to adjust to batters as a reliever... you see them once. his stuff is very good... nobody with eyes can deny that.

Tigers keep guys like Briceno and Farmer as starters... instead of moving them to the pen where they MIGHT actually do well.. its dumb... they can always be converted back to starters... i get they need Farmer to start now because of the current situation.. but quit trying to force a square peg through a circle hole... thats what i say.