Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2015 Thread

[MiamiVice]

if verlander has a nice bounce back year... sanchez stays remotely healthy.. norris has a respectable year.. and the tigers can sign another guy like zimmerman or leake.. they will be right back to contending.. they really are not that far off.. in my opinion a new manager and 2 decent new starters and they would be fine.

look at wolf.. the guy is 89 years old and he is still throwing well... and he is costing next to nothing.. some times you don't have to spend big to win... nationals are proving that is the case this year... scherzer isn't helping them win anything... and they were supposed to have a all time great rotation.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

he would opt out because it would add 2 or 3 years to his contract and double the guaranteed money.. my guess is he opts out and resigns with the dodgers..

gotcha... good to learn...

see how easy this is for you

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

if verlander has a nice bounce back year

I expect him to have 2 maybe 3 pretty good to great years (15-17+ wins) left in him and probably another 2-3 years of decent years, meaning those decent years 11-13 wins and then maybe the real struggles begin and the expediant downward spiral happens. He'd be what 38 by that time.

sanchez stays remotely healthy

I was telling Smitty and Gandy my belief is that those oblique/shoulder issues from 2013/2014 were still a concern of mine. Maybe this year was just an abnormality or it was a continuation of his 5 week injury hiatus from last year still having some affects.

and the tigers can sign another guy like zimmerman or leake

they could afford both of those two, imo, and would be wise to do so.

look at wolf.. the guy is 89 years old and he is still throwing well

yep, 38, and he could implode in the off-season or turn into Jaimie Moyer. It's a risk/reward sitch but worth keeping him, imo, as a security blanket.

 

[MiamiVice]

i doubt wolf is back with the tigers next year.. if anything maybe an invite to spring training. i doubt avila is going to go into next year without bringing in at least 2 trustworthy starters. i wouldn't be surprised to see him sit on his hands in terms of the pen.. because outside of a trade.. there really isn't much there to be had for free agents.

 

[Voltaire26]

Tigers are in great shape for next year. 8 of 9 starters coming back. A healthy Verlander and Sanchez. Norris has excellent potential and Wolf is worth the risk. Need someone or two to step up into the bullpen. 60 Million Dollars coming off the books can supplement the team nicely.

Alex Avilia will be gone which is good because the pitchers will put their trust in McCann.

A new manager (experienced) and new coaches will have the team moving in the right direction.

September will be interesting. We will be getting a lot of looks into the Tigers future.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

hell Buerhle has got to be close to 38 also. it wouldn't be a horrible back up plan, meaning Wolf or Buerhle, as a 5th starter if Avila only gets a Greinke or Price.... already having JV, Sanchez and Norris

there's lots of options for Avila and SP but don't you think he goes after at least one proven RP, maybe a Frankie Rodriguez in the off-season just as a stablizer. F-Rod would come at a fair price in a trade, I would think.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

September will be interesting. We will be getting a lot of looks into the Tigers future.

THIS

 

[MiamiVice]

hell Buerhle has got to be close to 38 also. it wouldn't be a horrible back up plan, meaning Wolf or Buerhle, as a 5th starter if Avila only gets a Greinke or Price.... already having JV, Sanchez and Norris

there's lots of options for Avila and SP but don't you think he goes after at least one proven RP, maybe a Frankie Rodriguez in the off-season just as a stablizer. F-Rod would come at a fair price in a trade, I would think.

the idea of getting an proven closer is a failed route. unless the salary is small.. you are better off not investing in a reliever.. better off letting the young guys sort it out. spend big on a top end starter.. and get a decent middle or back end guy.

buerhle > wolf... its not even close.

 

[MiamiVice]

tigers have been trying to find a proven closer for over a decade... it just keeps blowing up in their face and costing them money. good teams develop depth and talent in their pitching ranks and call guys up for the pen.. regardless of if they were a starter or reliever in the minors... and let it sort itself out by who performs the best.

you don't see the marlins struggling to find closers... and they certainly are not out spending big to get them.

 

[MiamiVice]

the tigers really need to invest big at least one time internationally like the yankees did recently.. sign 10 of the top 50 international prospects.. invest 20 mil in signing bonuses... take the penalty and build an actual farm system. it really doesn't take that long to build a farm system.. 1-3 yrs tops can turn a system around.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

the idea of getting an proven closer is a failed route. unless the salary is small

I thought F-Rod was somewhere near or at 5M for next year. I see where you're coming from as it's wasting money on a closer, even F-Rod at say 5M, but are you comfortable with a closer by committee with Rondon, Wilson and Hardy. pretty ballsy yet confident if that's your approach. I damn for sure wouldn't want to see another 10M+ closer on staff. although I do like Clippard and Kimbrel, history for Tigers signing closers or set-up men just haven't worked out.

 

[MiamiVice]

nathan was a stud the year before he signed with the tigers.. it is just a huge gamble. i would rather see the tigers roll with the young guys and let them sort it out. Tigers need to move Farmer to the pen. He could flourish there. I think Verhagen could do well there as well. Its not hard to see... the teams that do well fill bullpen roles from within.. usually younger pitchers from their farm... stock pile young starters like boyd, farmer, verhagen, ryan, ect.. and let them compete for bullpen roles instead of filling them with scrub old piss bags like joba and gorzelanny.

 

[MiamiVice]

I thought F-Rod was somewhere near or at 5M for next year. I see where you're coming from as it's wasting money on a closer, even F-Rod at say 5M, but are you comfortable with a closer by committee with Rondon, Wilson and Hardy. pretty ballsy yet confident if that's your approach. I damn for sure wouldn't want to see another 10M+ closer on staff. although I do like Clippard and Kimbrel, history for Tigers signing closers or set-up men just haven't worked out.

he is around 5.5 mil.. with another 6 mil in 2017.. but he is 34 next year.. and we all know how that seems to work out for tigers.. the whole bring in established closer thing...

the tigers should use september to take a look at young pitchers in the minors, and see if any could help the bullpen next year.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

tigers have been trying to find a proven closer for over a decade... it just keeps blowing up in their face and costing them money. good teams develop depth and talent in their pitching ranks and call guys up for the pen.. regardless of if they were a starter or reliever in the minors... and let it sort itself out by who performs the best.

you don't see the marlins struggling to find closers... and they certainly are not out spending big to get them.

I was asking Smitty and Gandy this very same thing back in first of July. How is it that Oak, Mia, Atl, Stl, SF, always coming up with very good to great arms from within. You had touched on it in here as it might be related to scouting and development in the minors. I was more or less blaming it strictly on minor league pitching coaches sucking ass for the lack of development of any arms. JV, Ricky P, Smiley are the only ones developed from within. Ryan Perry hasn't done shit and neither has Jacob Turner and Andrew Miller wasn't jack squat as a starter but he has become a very good RP over the last 3 years. Zumaya was a favorite of mine but that went into the tank as he blew his arm out. Ahhhh, Furbush has faired very well as a RP.

Tigers pitching coaches suck... period

 

[MiamiVice]

I was asking Smitty and Gandy this very same thing back in first of July. How is it that Oak, Mia, Atl, Stl, SF, always coming up with very good to great arms from within. You had touched on it in here as it might be related to scouting and development in the minors. I was more or less blaming it strictly on minor league pitching coaches sucking ass for the lack of development of any arms. JV, Ricky P, Smiley are the only ones developed from within. Ryan Perry hasn't done shit and neither has Jacob Turner and Andrew Miller wasn't jack squat as a starter but he has become a very good RP over the last 3 years. Zumaya was a favorite of mine but that went into the tank as he blew his arm out. Ahhhh, Furbush has faired very well as a RP.

Tigers pitching coaches suck... period

Jacob Turner is only 24 still.. so i wouldn't write him off yet..

This is the thing.. Most teams call up pitching prospects and put them in the pen regardless of if they were starters or relievers in the minors.. they just accumulate talent. The tigers rarely do this. Hardy was a failure as a starter in the minors.. but as a reliever in the mlb.. he is pretty solid.. verhagen could end up the same way. Ryan isn't going to be a big league starter... but put him in the pen and see what he does.. he was good in that role last year. Boyd could be in the pen as well. Tigers have guys they could use there.. they just keep ignoring them.

Drafting college relievers is a recipe for failure. Guys like Ryan Perry... they were not good enough to start in college.. so lets draft them.. its so stupid.. draft talent.. if they don't work as a starter.. then shift them to the pen.. that is a HUGE reason the tigers haven't developed bullpen in house... their talent pool for pitchers drops off big time...

 

[MiamiVice]

avila has a scouting background and i hope he goes back to that. if not.. i hope they hire some guys from a team like miami, tampa, or oakland that know how to develop pitching in the minors.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

well shit, Rondon was in the international league for 3 years and now 4 years here starting at rookie league and he still doesn't have a slider that's all that great or a change-up that's A+. That's alot of time to develop a pitcher who is honestly a thrower (as smitty said)

 

[MiamiVice]

well shit, Rondon was in the international league for 3 years and now 4 years here starting at rookie league and he still doesn't have a slider that's all that great or a change-up that's A+. That's alot of time to develop a pitcher who is honestly a thrower (as smitty said)

Rondon is a prime example of the tigers development strategy.. he never was a starter.. he just throws hard so they figured it would be enough... If they drafted nothing but guys with 3 or more above average pitches.. they would be able to put some of them into the pen because they would have enough depth at starter... They need to stop drafting guys just to be relievers.. rondon didn't cost much so its not a huge deal if he doesn't pan out.. but the fact remains.. he never had much more than a plus fast ball...

Sign and draft talent... let it sort itself out whether they start or relieve... stop drafting for roles. That is what they need to do.

 

[MiamiVice]

drafting college relievers at any point of the draft should be completely ended too.. its just so stupid to draft someone that wasn't good enough to start in college and expect them to get MLB level hitters out on the regular even in only in a 1 inning role.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

as Gandy stated to me and Smitty, you draft FNP (Friday Night Pitchers), who are usually the aces of the staff.

I seriously never knew that term or even thought of it. But Gandy is dead on right with his theory.

I just find it hard to fathom after having drafted 20+ pitchers over the last 4-5 years and only a couple from within the farm system have panned out, meaning Smyly and Furbush, Hell they were probably drafted before that time. That's either shit scouting or shitty development. I'll lean to the shitty development of these pitchers for now.

I do want to see Joe Mantiply up for the september expansion. you had mentioned him. even Fuller and possibly Jimenez.