Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2015 Thread

[MiamiVice]

Unless Miggy channels Babe Ruth and starts pitching... I doubt he changes much. Tigers were losing plenty with him in the lineup.

 

[burfboy]

Let's just see if they improve from now to the end of the season....

 

[Dutchis59]

I'm rooting for them to win e'ry night now that the deadline has came and went and we sold.

This isn't the NBA. Tanking achieves nothing as far I'm concerned at this point.

I agree Smitty
Vice Below is a list of the Tigers 1st rounders and from 65 to 2010 I count 9 or 10 players that have had or having a decent career in the bigs. That makes it around a 20% success rate. To me that 1st rounder doesn't necessarily mean he will make it so If they happen to lose and get a protected 1st rounder it could be a plus down the road. If not and they lose it to a free agent signing so be it.

2015 Beau Burrows RHP Weatherford (Texas) High School
2015 Christin Stewart OF Tennessee
2014 Derek Hill OF Elk Grove (Calif.) HS
2013 Jonathon Crawford RHP Florida
2010 Nick Castellanos 3B Archbishop McCarthy HS, Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
2010 Chance Ruffin RHP Texas
2009 Jacob Turner RHP Westminster Christian Academy, St. Louis, Mo.
2008 Ryan Perry RHP Univ. of Arizona
2007 Rick Porcello RHP Seton Hall Prep, West Orange, N.J.
2006 Andrew Miller LHP North Carolina
2005 Cameron Maybin CF T C Roberson HS (NC)
2004 Justin Verlander RHP Old Dominion
2003 Kyle Sleeth RHP Wake Forest U
2002 Scott Moore SS Cypress, CA
2001 Kenny Baugh RHP Rice U
2000 Matt Wheatland RHP San Diego, CA
1999 Eric Munson C U. of Southern California
1998 Jeff Weaver RHP Fresno State U.
1997 Matt Anderson RHP Rice U
1996 Seth Greisinger RHP U of Virginia
1995 Mike Drumright RHP Wichita State U
1994 Cade Gaspar RHP Pepperdine U
1993 Matt Brunson SS Englewood, CO
1992 Richard Greene RHP Louisiana State U
1990 Tony Clark OF El Cajon, CA
1989 Greg Gohr RHP Santa Clara U
1988 Rico Brogna 1B Watertown, CT
1987 Bill Henderson C Miami, FL
1987 Steve Pegues OF Pontotoc, MS
1986 Phil Clark C Crockett, TX
1985 Randy Nosek RHP Chillicothe, MO
1983 Wayne Dotson RHP Lubbock, TX
1982 Rich Monteleone RHP Tampa, FL
1981 Ricky Barlow RHP Woodville, TX
1980 Glenn Wilson 3B Sam Houston State U
1979 Rick Leach OF U of Michigan
1979 Chris Baker OF Dearborn Heights, MI
1978 Kirk Gibson OF Michigan State U
1977 Kevin Richards RHP Wyandotte, MI
1976 Pat Underwood LHP Kokomo, IN
1975 Les Filkins OF Chicago, IL
1974 Lance Parrish 3B Diamond Bar, CA
1973 Charles Bates 1B Cal State Los Angeles
1972 Jerry Manuel SS Rancho Cordova, CA
1971 Tom Veryzer SS Islip, NY
1970 Terry Mappin C Louisville, KY
1969 Lenny Baxley 1B Redding, CA
1968 Robert Robinson OF Chester, VA
1967 Jim Foor LHP Ferguson, MO
1966 *-Rick Konik 1B Detroit, MI
1965 Gene Lamont C Kirkland, IL

 

[MiamiVice]

I agree Smitty
Vice Below is a list of the Tigers 1st rounders and from 65 to 2010 I count 9 or 10 players that have had or having a decent career in the bigs. That makes it around a 20% success rate. To me that 1st rounder doesn't necessarily mean he will make it so If they happen to lose and get a protected 1st rounder it could be a plus down the road. If not and they lose it to a free agent signing so be it.

2015 Beau Burrows RHP Weatherford (Texas) High School
2015 Christin Stewart OF Tennessee
2014 Derek Hill OF Elk Grove (Calif.) HS
2013 Jonathon Crawford RHP Florida
2010 Nick Castellanos 3B Archbishop McCarthy HS, Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
2010 Chance Ruffin RHP Texas
2009 Jacob Turner RHP Westminster Christian Academy, St. Louis, Mo.
2008 Ryan Perry RHP Univ. of Arizona
2007 Rick Porcello RHP Seton Hall Prep, West Orange, N.J.
2006 Andrew Miller LHP North Carolina
2005 Cameron Maybin CF T C Roberson HS (NC)
2004 Justin Verlander RHP Old Dominion
2003 Kyle Sleeth RHP Wake Forest U
2002 Scott Moore SS Cypress, CA
2001 Kenny Baugh RHP Rice U
2000 Matt Wheatland RHP San Diego, CA
1999 Eric Munson C U. of Southern California
1998 Jeff Weaver RHP Fresno State U.
1997 Matt Anderson RHP Rice U
1996 Seth Greisinger RHP U of Virginia
1995 Mike Drumright RHP Wichita State U
1994 Cade Gaspar RHP Pepperdine U
1993 Matt Brunson SS Englewood, CO
1992 Richard Greene RHP Louisiana State U
1990 Tony Clark OF El Cajon, CA
1989 Greg Gohr RHP Santa Clara U
1988 Rico Brogna 1B Watertown, CT
1987 Bill Henderson C Miami, FL
1987 Steve Pegues OF Pontotoc, MS
1986 Phil Clark C Crockett, TX
1985 Randy Nosek RHP Chillicothe, MO
1983 Wayne Dotson RHP Lubbock, TX
1982 Rich Monteleone RHP Tampa, FL
1981 Ricky Barlow RHP Woodville, TX
1980 Glenn Wilson 3B Sam Houston State U
1979 Rick Leach OF U of Michigan
1979 Chris Baker OF Dearborn Heights, MI
1978 Kirk Gibson OF Michigan State U
1977 Kevin Richards RHP Wyandotte, MI
1976 Pat Underwood LHP Kokomo, IN
1975 Les Filkins OF Chicago, IL
1974 Lance Parrish 3B Diamond Bar, CA
1973 Charles Bates 1B Cal State Los Angeles
1972 Jerry Manuel SS Rancho Cordova, CA
1971 Tom Veryzer SS Islip, NY
1970 Terry Mappin C Louisville, KY
1969 Lenny Baxley 1B Redding, CA
1968 Robert Robinson OF Chester, VA
1967 Jim Foor LHP Ferguson, MO
1966 *-Rick Konik 1B Detroit, MI
1965 Gene Lamont C Kirkland, IL

This list is nothing more than proof that for the better part of 50 years the Tigers have been god awful at evaluating talent. Tell the Cardinals, A's, Giants, ect that 1st round picks are not worth anything... You guys that act like the draft is unimportant are the same to cry about the Tigers not having any young talent to call up... and the same to cry about the bullpen being shit. Good bullpens are not bought in free agency or trade. They are developed on the farm. If something hasn't worked in the past.. why keep doing stuff the same way? Seriously... neglecting player development and scouting is why the Tigers were not able to build a pen all these years. Its not that hard to build a pen if you have a decent farm system... Even shit bag teams with 40 mil payrolls have better bullpens than the Tigers... why? Not because they spend big on it.

You guys calling for signing more high priced free agent to long crap contracts are the first ones to complain about the contracts when they go bad.. like verlander's has. But hey... lets just keep spending on 30+ yr old guys.... It has worked for the Yankees... oh wait.. no it hasn't.. but the Dodgers do it... oh wait.. not working for them either... but maybe the Nationals?? Nope they haven't won anything either... Teams that win have respectable farms systems.... You get respectable farm systems by drafting well and investing in international prospects... drafting well doesn't happen when you are giving up your first rounder for a 30+ yr old that wants a 5 yr 100+ mil contract.

 

[MiamiVice]

Yeah... lets win for pride... lose a high draft pick.. they don't matter anyways... not having a first round pick in 2011, 2012 didn't matter...

Do you know why the Tigers farm is rated so low? Its not because of the 10-50 ranked prospects.. its the fact the Tigers top 10 prospects ceiling is at best an average MLB player... why is that? Because they lost 2 first round picks a few years back to free agent signings... haven't invested in international prospects the way they should.... and have traded away any prospect that showed potential for a bunch expensive short term players...

So yeah.. the hell with it.. lets not worry about that draft pick.. it probably won't pan out anyways... we can just spend our way to a title.. because acquiring high priced 30+ yr old players is a proven way to win a title.

 

[MiamiVice]

Plain and simple.. The Tigers have not been able to build a bullpen because they had nobody in the farm system to call up into that role. None... Nobody... The Tigers best pitching prospect to be put into the pen is Bruce Rondon... over the last 6 years... that is comically sad and a telling reason why they didn't have a bullpen. No depth on the farm = no depth in the pen.

The Tigers have spent big money on the pen for a long time. They have given up prospects for guys to shore up the pen through trades... its not like they didn't try to fix it.. they did.. often... they just did it the wrong way.

Tigers best bullpen arm was acquired as a throw in piece in the Cespedes trade, and the others as minor league free agent deals.. castoffs from other teams farm like the royals (hardy) and cubs (Al Al)... Yet they have spend at least 100 mil on bullpen arms in the last 5 years alone...

 

[broncosmitty]

Haven't seen anyone calling for more high priced free agents. Which goes along with not worrying aboot finishing in the bottom third of the league on purpose.

Not everyone plans on seeing Detroit spend 170mil e'ry year.

I'm not even interested in Cespedes for more than 3 years. (Could be wrong, but I think the Cardinals only have three of their first rounders on their big league team right now. Wacha, Wong and Lynn. Maybe I'm wrong, idk. Couldnt care less what the As do. They've won One playoff series since BB took power. The Giants are impressive when it comes to first rounders. They're impressive at most e'ry thing really.) And he wouldn't even cost a first round pick.

Remember when I mentioned a good portion of our team not even being drafted? Maybe I have different hopes for what Big Al and David Chad will focus their energies on? The draft isn't as impactful as it was when Tony Clark was our best pick in over a decade. The talent pool is larger and spread worldwide more than ever.

Having the only Cuban born GM in MLB history is a unique asset. (Big Al started his career scouting Latin America for the Marlins. Signed a kid out of Venezuela that might play for the Tigers this weekend. I'd like to see him invest more time, energy and money into Latin America personally.). One that doesn't require losing on purpose to take advantage of.

There's more than Pride on the line down the stretch, imo.

 

[burfboy]

With relationships opening between Cuba and the United States will it be a benefit to the Tigers because of our new general managers Cuban heritage..... GM Avila also wants to change the way Tigers evaluate players using cyber metrics.
.. I think that is the right term correct me if I'm wrong..... it looks like he has some different ideas and direction then did DD..... I read an interesting article on the site Bess you Boys about the trouble the Tigers are going to have with signing free agents because of the money over 100 million dollars dedicated to 5 players.... it was an interesting article but I don't know how to post it here.....

 

[MiamiVice]

With relationships opening between Cuba and the United States will it be a benefit to the Tigers because of our new general managers Cuban heritage..... GM Avila also wants to change the way Tigers evaluate players using cyber metrics.
.. I think that is the right term correct me if I'm wrong..... it looks like he has some different ideas and direction then did DD..... I read an interesting article on the site Bess you Boys about the trouble the Tigers are going to have with signing free agents because of the money over 100 million dollars dedicated to 5 players.... it was an interesting article but I don't know how to post it here.....

sabermetrics.

 

[MiamiVice]

The Tigers can probably afford to sign 1 large contract this offseason... and it won't be for a LFer. Cespedes most likely isn't coming back because the Tigers are not going to put a large contract on offense before they shore up the rotation. Cespedes is going to be 30 years old... he isn't signing a 3 year deal. He is going to sign a 5/6 year deal with someone. Its his last big payday.

Tigers will go after one of the top 5 starters on the market. That is almost guaranteed. They will for sure work the trade market for bullpen/LF... because there is almost NOTHING on the free agent market that is worth a piss for bullpen arms... and I doubt the Tigers want to invest a large contract into the outfield. I wouldn't even be surprised to see them run with Collins next year and just put their money into the rotation.

At some point the Tigers and their fans need to understand that spending prospects or money on bullpen arms is a recipe for disaster. The lifespan of a bullpen arm is 1.5 seasons... You don't need to be a genius to understand that you shouldn't invest a lot into something like that.

That is why good/great teams build bullpens from within. The Tigers have drafted a TON of pitchers in the last few drafts and within the next 2 years will see an influx of guys they will try to use as bullpen arms come up.. but this is the issue... There draft strategy has been flawed since about 2009. They stopped drafting high upside talent in the early rounds and went after polished college arms (some college relievers, which is so dumb its not even funny). The Tigers were in win now mode in the MLB levels and draft. Instead of drafting a guy with a much more obvious upside.. they went after a college arm they thought would either make the majors faster or be used in a trade faster... Everything about that is just dumb. You ask why the Tigers have no above average pitching in the farm? The only guy they had that was above average in the last 5 years, they traded to get 1.5 years of Soria... Jake Thompson ( who also happens to be the only early round high school arm they drafted before Beau Borrows this year since Porcello). They drafted shit bag college relievers with no upside like ryan perry and chance ruffin because they thought they would make the MLB level faster... how dumb is that... a guy that can make it there faster but be average at best.. vs drafting a guy that can be a star but may take 2 or 3 years more?

You want a good bullpen? Draft high upside arms. If they fail as starters.. you put them as relievers. If you hit on 4/10. You did well. Drafting the way the Tigers have in the past is a recipe to not hit on any top picks. At least this year they finally went back to drafting upside high school pitchers....

 

[MiamiVice]

If you have prospects in your top 10 that profile as relievers... your farm sucks... I don't care if they are a future closer. No pitching prospect that profiles as a reliever and not a starter should EVER be in a top 10 of a teams mlb prospects... if they are... your farm has problems.

 

[burfboy]

The moves the Tigers made at the trade deadline hopefully will pan out in the near future and hopefully next year.... what are the chances the Tigers turn the kid they got from the Pirates into an outfielder?

 

[MiamiVice]

The moves the Tigers made at the trade deadline hopefully will pan out in the near future and hopefully next year.... what are the chances the Tigers turn the kid they got from the Pirates into an outfielder?

Not out of the question... but I doubt it. He is a middle of the road prospect really. So moving him to the outfield really isn't going to help much. There are better prospects than him as outfield prospects anyways. The kid the Tigers drafted in the compensation round this year is a better hitter... and is already an outfielder.

 

[MiamiVice]

I will say this... the 2008 draft was pretty crappy as a whole.. but taking Ryan Perry is a prime example of what has made the Tigers so weak in the pitching department.. by taking a college reliever with little upside... they passed on pitchers like Gerrit Cole, Wade Miley, Lance Lynn, Jake Ordrizzi, and Mike Montegomery... all 5 are starters picked within about 20 picks of Perry that are major league players now... and MUCH more useful.

 

[MiamiVice]

Tigers need to start drafting in the first 5 rounds not for need.. but based on the best player on the board. The last two drafts they have been much better... but before 2014.. they were drafting for need.. and reaching for scrub college relievers all over the place. The last 2 years they have drafted based on talent. Someone different definitely has been in charge of the draft the last 2 years.. because those 2 drafts look nothing like the last 10 before them.

 

[MiamiVice]

Miggy off the DL. Ryan sent down... Apparently they want to keep Gorzelanny around to negate any benefit from Miggy coming back... I can see it now.. Miggy hits 3 run HR... Gorzelanny inserted into the game next inning to give up a grand slam... lol

 

[burfboy]

Friday nite in Houston
Davis
Kinsler
Miggy
VMart
JD
Nick
McCann
Iggy
Gose
Simon on the hill. ...
Big boy is back.....

 

[MiamiVice]

Lets see if Simon can keep it under 5 earned today...

 

[da55bums]

they are major league baseball players, they aren't "tanking", for better draft picks. They are playing if anything to improve their own next contract negotiations.

This isn't college, HS or little league, they are men playing for their paychecks. Get real and over the imaginary "tanking"

 

[MiamiVice]

they are major league baseball players, they aren't "tanking", for better draft picks. They are playing if anything to improve their own next contract negotiations.

This isn't college, HS or little league, they are men playing for their paychecks. Get real and over the imaginary "tanking"

Is there going to be a point you stop following me around the internet?