Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2014 Thread

[Cleaves2000]

Heres some stats for ya.....our most likely 7-8th inning guys...

Joba 4.98 ERA
AL AL 4.59 ERA
KROL 3.95 ERA

benoit had a 2.01 ERA
Smyly had 2.37 ERA
Veras 3.02 ERA

Like i said nathan was an upgrade, but we lost 3 decent pitchers from the pen...im sure these stats will be thrown aside since joba is good now that hes a tiger.

funny how are BP is fine, because we have nathan.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Benoit wasnt chopped liver....he was one of the best 8th inning guys....when given the closer roll, he went out and saved 22 straight games....24 out of 26...

We lost veras, who is now a closer once again....

Many thought smyly shouldve been in the AS game after his great first half...

But yeah....theres no way last years BP was better than this years

 

[gvsulaker82]

Why? I thought the whole point of this was to win the WS. Max gives them a much better chance than if he is gone. Even with Iggy and Rondon hurt, the Tigers are still the favorites to win the division. You might have a point if this were July and the Tigers were 10 back.

Worst case scenario is the Tigers get a 1st round pick and and additional $15MM to play with. If Max has a decent year he will get $25-30MM/yr for 5 years minimum. That money can to go Miggy (if hee is deemed worth it) or towards a rebuild.

Why? Because his trade value is as high as its going to get. Its a no brainer financial situation, and max scherzer of 2014 will not be max scherzer of 2013. If their goal is to win the WS, then why trade fister and fielder? It was supposedly to clear space financially to sign max, that isnt happening. They should have traded max initially instead of fister. They would have received much more in return, fisters contract will be cheaper and scherzer will not be much better than fister this year besides K per 9 innings.

 

[gvsulaker82]

No... Actually I didn't. Its like the Granderson trade that brought in Max. You may not know who Robbie Ray was before the trade... but I guarantee Dombrowski did.. and if anything else.. I think we owe him a little trust in his judgement for all the times he has ripped off other teams....

Tigers fans thought we got ripped off in the trade that brought us Fister.. because they had no idea who he was... They had no idea who Scherzer was when he was brought in... My point is.. Has DD not earned a little trust in the fact his deals work out more times than not?

I disagree, I knew who max scherzer was. I knew the talent and potential he had. He already had major league experience at the time. I will admit I was torn when they made the trade, I loved granderson and edwin had a solid year although he fell off later in the season. I hated how awful curtis was against lefties but I loved how talented he was. I was very familiar with ajax and scherzer though. Ray though? Never seen him play but jus based on reviews, Im not sold. I already know krols track record (not impressive) and alex gonzalez is a backup shortstop that doesnt benefit from PED use. Ajax and max were bonafide talents.

 

[gvsulaker82]

I would rather pay miggy 225 mil from 2015-2023 than give Max 24 mil a yr for 6 years. Flat out.. Miggy needs to retire a Tiger... He is a future HOFer... Max most likely is not even going to be put on a HOF ballot.

I agree, this should be a no brainer even with max being a few years younger.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Scherzer was a gamble. He had zero consistency. DD is either a genius or very lucky.

Scherzer was a gamble and ray isnt? Come on. Ive been saying for years scherzer is a stud...he finally pulled it out last year and now Im saying he will have a much worse season.

 

[Cleaves2000]

I disagree, I knew who max scherzer was. I knew the talent and potential he had. He already had major league experience at the time. I will admit I was torn when they made the trade, I loved granderson and edwin had a solid year although he fell off later in the season. I hated how awful curtis was against lefties but I loved how talented he was. I was very familiar with ajax and scherzer though. Ray though? Never seen him play but jus based on reviews, Im not sold. I already know krols track record (not impressive) and alex gonzalez is a backup shortstop that doesnt benefit from PED use. Ajax and max were bonafide talents.

 

[gvsulaker82]

1st point... Miggy will get paid... By the Tigers... A ton.. enough to get him into his age 40 season... I bet my left nut on it. No way he gets a 5 year deal.. try 7-10 yrs.

2nd point... Fister didn't have a great era before being traded to the Tigers.. he had an ok era and then went nuts after the trade. No Tiger fan I talked to on CBS knew who he was and was pissed we went the cheap route and got Fister and not Jimenez...

3rd point... Name one trade Dombrowski got schooled on over the long term? The closest thing would be the Renteria trade.. and that looked a whole lot worse than it really was at first.. now... who wants Jurrgens?

You guys over react. Its pretty funny. I am willing to bet that Ray will be a Smyly type starter. Mid rotation ceiling. Just like Fister. They saved money and got younger. He is doing his job. Dombrowski is the best manager in baseball... nit picking him is comical at best.

Any Tigers fan that second guesses Dombrowski makes me just laugh... Seriously... the guy has ripped off so many other gm's the last 6 years its not even funny. He always pulls stuff out of his ass that fans question or judge.. then when it works out they jump for joy... the fact you guys don't trust his judgement calls after the success he has had is pretty funny.

First, you are confused. Fister had a very impressive ERA in seattle when detroit trades for him. It was his wins loss record that was awful, because he played on a team with zero run support. He was sporting a 3.3 and was like 3-12. I snagged him off of the waiver wire immediately and he was a stud the rest of the season. Tigers fans that didnt like the trade at the time were probably caught up in his wins loss.

Second, I agree. I love me some DD? Hes an excellent GM. He has swung and missed though. As you said renteria. But also lets not forget aubrey huff and washburn. Lets not forget how he went into last season without a closer. He does make mistakes, so dont be so quick to assume fans are overreacting, because the fister trade is a mistake. I thought the fielder trade was impressive, like I said..I love DD! But hes not perfect.

 

[gvsulaker82]

I was going off the 3.33 era... which is not great.... it is ok...

Uh, 3.3 ERA is very good for a starting pitcher.

 

[gvsulaker82]

I don't get why you are acting like to win you need high priced bullpen guys.... Maybe one... but teams that win do so with low cost young bullpen guys... that they catch lighting in a bottle with. Name the bullpens from the last 5 WS champions... and see how many were no name call ups from the minor leagues. Do you know who the closer is in St Louis? Was he a high priced guy? Take a look at the money spent with the Dodgers.. would you want their over priced pen over say the bullpen of the Rays? Bullpens are not built out of free agency... they should be built from within... there are much better places to spend your dollars. Flat out... you are over reacting...

They need someone decent in the pen besides nathan. It doesnt need to be high priced. You yourself said that a 3.3 ERA is just ok so I cant imagine what you think about the guys eras besides nathan in the pen. The pen was a huge reason they lost last year, and somehow they made it worst.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Tigers pen was not the reason they didn't win the world series last year... outside of the obvious runs given up.... they didn't win in a seven game series because the offense went stale and could not produce runs outside of a hr. Manufacturing runs will be easier the way this team is built. Bullpen arms can be added in the season if needed.

It was one of the main reasons. You may have missed the big papi home run. Their bullpen and their inability to score runs were the main reasons..

 

[gvsulaker82]

Man im so done with the blind homer fans...i dont want other good posters who im cool with to think im negative iffy or something.....i said the few things that worry me about this team....and a month later its the same thing over and over....in all truth nobody is going to change my mind BUT the tigers themselves....not that they care....but for the few homer fans....im just gonna agree with everything tiger being Greeeeeeaaaaaat!!!!!

Phil coke is awesome

Man danny worth is such a great SS, why go get gonzalez?

Smyly is the next mark langston

Rajai davis is fast...

Cant wait for all our top end bullpen prospects to come up sometime this year and moe the league down...

Im so happy the tigers are finally gonna win it all....junior high was a long time ago...i wanIna drink to this WS....

I agree with just about everything you have said minus your comments on prince. I dont see you as negative.

 

[gvsulaker82]

The top closer in the league and the bullpen is the weakest in the league? C'mon fuzzy. I now the loss of Rondon hurts but if Nathan saves games at a 90% clip, the bullpen is top 5 in the league.

One good closer does not make a pen.
Is nathan going to be pitching 3-4 innings nightly?

Top five? Come on, now you are just trolling.

This is unreal.

 

[gvsulaker82]

.....and yet it is worse this year with the addition of Nathan? That is called contradiction and is common when you don't consistently use facts.

Closer was their strength last year and will be again this year. Benoit had an incredible season. Lets not sell him short just because hes not the ideal closer. He was phenomenal. Nathan is filling benoits shoes, benoit is gone, veras is gone, and smyly out of the pen. They were replaced by krol and chamberlain. Two phil coke clones.

Raburn river.
Putkonen and reeds chances of succeeding are about as good as nathans chances of struggling. Why is it that year after year fans must hope several average joes on the tigers must succeed in their pen? You talked abou consistency earlier with scherzer, theres no consistency for anyone in the pen other than nathan. Theres no one with great strike out stuff other than nathan.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Yup jalopy im done with you.....i didnt need an english course....,i know how probably is spelled....i use prolly all the time....i use u instead of you....but yup done talking with your all smarter than everyone else.....just fuck off and do what you said you were gonna do.....dont come on here much.....guess that was an iffy lie eh?

Fucking grammar police....but hey...when people poke at spelling in a sports forum, i guess they aint got shit else to say..

Yeah he always talks about how hes not a condescending dick though..so its ok.

 

[MiamiVice]

Benoit wasnt chopped liver....he was one of the best 8th inning guys....when given the closer roll, he went out and saved 22 straight games....24 out of 26...

We lost veras, who is now a closer once again....

Many thought smyly shouldve been in the AS game after his great first half...

But yeah....theres no way last years BP was better than this years

Veras is trash.. and he wanted to get paid like a closer... which if he is your closer.. you aren't good.

 

[jalopy]

Why? Because his trade value is as high as its going to get. Its a no brainer financial situation, and max scherzer of 2014 will not be max scherzer of 2013. If their goal is to win the WS, then why trade fister and fielder? It was supposedly to clear space financially to sign max, that isnt happening. They should have traded max initially instead of fister. They would have received much more in return, fisters contract will be cheaper and scherzer will not be much better than fister this year besides K per 9 innings.

First, I agree with many of your points but I don't think the Fielder trade hurt their WS chnces at all. In fact, if you assume that they make it to the playoffs, I could easily argue that it increases their chances based on Prince's postseason stats thus far. Trading Max would be a huge blow to their chances and we have no idea what they could get in return. If the Fister trade is any evidence, I would think that trading Max would have people calling for DD's head. Max was on the block and it's not like teams were falling over themselves trying to get him.

 

[jalopy]

Scherzer was a gamble and ray isnt? Come on. Ive been saying for years scherzer is a stud...he finally pulled it out last year and now Im saying he will have a much worse season.

Ray is a huge gamble! If you think Max is such a stud, why do you think he will have a setback this year?

 

[jalopy]

Benoit wasnt chopped liver....he was one of the best 8th inning guys....when given the closer roll, he went out and saved 22 straight games....24 out of 26...

We lost veras, who is now a closer once again....

Many thought smyly shouldve been in the AS game after his great first half...

But yeah....theres no way last years BP was better than this years

Benoit wasn't chopped liver but this does expose a huge whole in your contentions.

1) You state that Nathan isn't a big step up from Benoit. I disagree but the idea does have merit.
2) You say that Benoit was one of the best 8th inning guys

You can't have it both ways when comparing the '14 pen to the '13 version. Benoit can't be a closer and a set-up guy. I agree that he would have been the ideal set-up guy but he wanted to be a closer and the Tigers decided to go with Nathan. It's not like DD knew that Rondon was going to blow his arm out.

There is no doubt that the Tigers BP is their achilles heel but let's wait until the season starts until we start calling it a disaster.

 

[MiamiVice]

Scherzer may regress... but I doubt he doesn't at least have a decent season. He won't win the Cy again.. or 20 games... but I bet he will be solid. Robbie Ray is a gamble... but Dombrowski is a gambler and I like the trade over the long haul. Many believe he has top of rotation stuff. Tigers need starter prospects bad... they only have 3 or 4 guys that could be MLB ready in the next year or so... and they need depth. That being said... I don't think the Fister move hurts the tigers as bad as people think... Fister was out number 4.... and if Porcello or Smyly even remotely surprise... the Tigers might actually be better because of the trade.