Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2014 Thread

[Cleaves2000]

Seriously?

Yup nothing......we lost smyly, benoit, and veras from the pen and added nathan, joba, and krol....

Yes nathan is solid, but i dont remember benoit blowing many 9th inning saves....closer wasnt a huge issue....it was getting through the 7th and 8th inning....

Im just hoping we can still cruise to the central title and add the help needed in the pen at trade deadline.

 

[Cleaves2000]

How many extra-inning games went into the 12th, 13th, 14th because the Tiger offense was in one of its puke stretches? I don't call those games a bullpen failure. That's on the offense.

The bullpen lost a lot of leads in April-May last season. After that, the BP was pretty darn good, especially once you got the ball to Smyly (+Veras later) and Benoit. Pretty darn good until the ALCS, that is.

I agree...i liked our pen....i thought we were a few pieces from having a pretty dam good pen.....if nathan was on last years team and benoit was the set up guy, we would of had a great BP...

I actually didnt mind veras as the 7th inning guy...losing smyly is what concerns me....that and watching joba in a detroit uni.....

 

[jalopy]

I agree...i liked our pen....i thought we were a few pieces from having a pretty dam good pen.....if nathan was on last years team and benoit was the set up guy, we would of had a great BP...

I actually didnt mind veras as the 7th inning guy...losing smyly is what concerns me....that and watching joba in a detroit uni.....

I still don't get it Cleaves.
Questions:
Is Nathan an upgrade at closer or not?
Why do you assume Rondon will flop when he showed in stretches that he can be very effective?
Why don't you think Krol will be good as a situational lefty?
Do you think the '14 Tigers will fair as poorly as the '13 Tigers in 1-run and xtra inning games?

The 2013 Tigers flopped in close games. The 2014 BP is constructed to improve that statistic dramatically.

Quit cherry picking partial stats and using only the negative to bolster your opinion.

 

[broncosmitty]

The pen did blow another save today. Virtually eliminating us from The Grapefruit post season.

 

[burfboy]

 

[burfboy]

I thought I was watching Coke today but it was Krol.....it was bad

 

[jalopy]

The pen did blow another save today. Virtually eliminating us from The Grapefruit post season.

Damn, I can imagine what is keeping the sky from falling at this point. Maybe we should all plan a fishing trip in October this year.

 

[burfboy]

I have been positive about the Tigers, except Krol today, just a joke. I believe the team is improved from last season and am looking forward to a great season....guys that are cherry picking stats and give the WS to other teams on paper have what I might call "Iffy syndrome" or something like it......lol

 

[Cleaves2000]

I still don't get it Cleaves.
Questions:
Is Nathan an upgrade at closer or not?
Why do you assume Rondon will flop when he showed in stretches that he can be very effective?
Why don't you think Krol will be good as a situational lefty?
Do you think the '14 Tigers will fair as poorly as the '13 Tigers in 1-run and xtra inning games?

The 2013 Tigers flopped in close games. The 2014 BP is constructed to improve that statistic dramatically.

Quit cherry picking partial stats and using only the negative to bolster your opinion.

Why should i have faith in rondon? In stretches doesnt cut it....why would i think krol will be good? In the short time hes pitched, he hasnt been impressive.....including today....

How is the 2014 BP constructed to improve stats in close games? Benoit and smyly were the 2 good pitchers, ERA wise last year.....look at jobas, krols, rondons, AL AL's, cokes ERA from last year and tell me why i should believe they will be better....not one was under 3.00.....

Yeah nathan is an upgrade, but not by much.....benoit was solid as a closer.....so its not a huge upgrade....you still have to get him the ball...

I get it....im suposed to be all RAH RAH...the tigers are great RAH RAH.....i love the tigers but im sorry, im not homer blinded by our BP...


Quit cherry picking partial stats? Youre the one who said rondon was good IN STRETCHES....thats cherry picking.....im looking at season stats..,career stats......and nothing joba, coke, krol or rondon have done has impressed me.........sorry

 

[Cleaves2000]

I have been positive about the Tigers, except Krol today, just a joke. I believe the team is improved from last season and am looking forward to a great season....guys that are cherry picking stats and give the WS to other teams on paper have what I might call "Iffy syndrome" or something like it......lol

Hope youre not referring to me.....im nothing like iffy....

I havent been negative towards this team in the last 3 years, but im sorry.....the BP is not good......but im starting to see, if you dont agree that everything tiger related is great, then you are negative or saying we cant win or whatever.....slowly turning into the lions board..

Ive stated many times...this team should still win central, but if BP isnt upgraded, it could be one series and done.....

 

[jalopy]

In stretches doesnt cut it

It did for Benoit

I get it....im suposed to be all RAH RAH...the tigers are great RAH RAH

Nope, but you take the worst possible outcome and talk it up as probable. Your glass isn't half empty, it is half empty in a cracked glass sitting precipitously on the edge of a wobbly table with a two-ton elephant entering the room.

Quit cherry picking partial stats? Youre the one who said rondon was good IN STRETCHES....thats cherry picking.

No that is qualifying my opinion of a young player who will do nothing to improve. Rondon was thrown to the wolves and failed. He will either learn from it or it will destroy his career. I think he has too much talent not to overcome it.

Like it or not, you have to consider Coke, ValVerde, etc. when you evaluate the '13 pen. You also have to consider that to keep Benoit would have cost a pretty penny. As or him being a reliable closer, Ortiz might disagree and using the excuse that he shouldn't have been pitching o him is a cop out.

I know this BP has issues but to say that it is worse than last year is premature.

I repeat mysef but do you think the team will improve in xtra inning games and 1-run games or get worse? For me, that is what a bullpen needs to do.

 

[Cleaves2000]

It did for Benoit


Nope, but you take the worst possible outcome and talk it up as probable. Your glass isn't half empty, it is half empty in a cracked glass sitting precipitously on the edge of a wobbly table with a two-ton elephant entering the room.


No that is qualifying my opinion of a young player who will do nothing to improve. Rondon was thrown to the wolves and failed. He will either learn from it or it will destroy his career. I think he has too much talent not to overcome it.

Like it or not, you have to consider Coke, ValVerde, etc. when you evaluate the '13 pen. You also have to consider that to keep Benoit would have cost a pretty penny. As or him being a reliable closer, Ortiz might disagree and using the excuse that he shouldn't have been pitching o him is a cop out.

I know this BP has issues but to say that it is worse than last year is premature.

I repeat mysef but do you think the team will improve in xtra inning games and 1-run games or get worse? For me, that is what a bullpen needs to do.

In 209 games with detroit benoit had a 2.89 ERA.....i dont see that as having ups and downs....he got the job done....nobody has an ERA of 0.00 in 209 games.....who outside of nathan in the pen is even close to 2.89?

Why is it a cop out to say benoit shouldnt had faced ortiz? He shouldnt had....smyly should of faced ortiz BUT smokey burned him to face elsbury with one guy on in a 5-1 game.....same thing will happen this year if we dont get a dependable LH to get a BIG out in the playoffs....but hey, we still got the lefty coke who they didnt trust last year to get the big out.

Consider coke and valverde? MmmmOK.....coke is still here and valverde was long gone by the time we hit the playoffs....ill take veras smyly and benoit over krol, joba, and nathan anyday in the pen...

But whatever.....i guess if people dont agree with you we have to argue day in and day out about it.....i hope youre right about everything because in your eyes it seems the tigers are headed for the WS title and the lions are going to win the superbowl....i sure hope youre right....will be a happy year...

Ive already said ill be ready to eat crow if the BP is good.....will you do the same?

 

[jalopy]

Cleaves, you make great points. I will just say that reality lies somewhere in-between. I think the Tigers have decreased their chances of making the postseason but a weak division helps them out considerably. If they do make the postseason, I believe their new look gives them a better chance than their old lineup. Smyly would likely move back to the pen and the guys like Joba and AA don't play as much of a part.

As for Benoit. The fact is he didn't get the guy out, although it was a "cheap" HR. a 2.89ERA coming out of the 'pen isn't that special. For me, it all boils down to Max, JV, Porcello and Sanchez. They stay healthy, Tigers win. If they don't, the shortcomings you have noted are brought to the forefront.

Ive already said ill be ready to eat crow if the BP is good.....will you do the same?

The BP isn't going to be great but if it is the reason the Tigers fail, I will acknowledge the errors of my way. It won't be the first time or the last time. That's what makes sports a great thing.

 

[jalopy]

Ive already said ill be ready to eat crow if the BP is good.....will you do the same?

Cleaves, I will make you a deal. You set the standards about how to judge the performance of the BP. If the '14 Tigers are under-performing the '13 Tigers at the All-Star break. I will accept a "punishment" of your choice. I ask nothing in return.

 

[Howie115]

.....same thing will happen this year if we dont get a dependable LH to get a
BIG out in the playoffs....

I imagine Dombrowski is thinking the same. He sees what we see. My guess is the asking price for a proven lefty setup guy is too high ... i.e. Castellanos, the one remaining high-level prospect in our system, or Porcello, a dependable starter that we now have to retain with Fister gone.

I guess we can forget about Crosby or Below helping from the port side, not that I had high hopes anyway. Crosby optioned to Toledo already, and Below assigned to minor league camp.

One guy in the pen not being talked about is Luke Putkonen. I know he was Luke PUKE-konen in 2012, but he was at least decent last season -- 3.03 ERA in about 30 IP. So far in spring: 7 IP, 4 hits, 0 walks, 9 Ks, 0 ER. Not gonna be a bullpen savior, but possibly a dependable 7th inning guy.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Cleaves, I will make you a deal. You set the standards about how to judge the performance of the BP. If the '14 Tigers are under-performing the '13 Tigers at the All-Star break. I will accept a "punishment" of your choice. I ask nothing in return.

Blown saves

 

[jalopy]

Blown saves

Save percentage would suit me better if that is determined the best route.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Save percentage would suit me better if that is determined the best route.

Works for me any game where the tigers pen takes the ball with the lead after the fifth inning and the other team ends up winning. Just what I think would be fair.

 

[gvsulaker82]

I imagine Dombrowski is thinking the same. He sees what we see. My guess is the asking price for a proven lefty setup guy is too high ... i.e. Castellanos, the one remaining high-level prospect in our system, or Porcello, a dependable starter that we now have to retain with Fister gone.

I guess we can forget about Crosby or Below helping from the port side, not that I had high hopes anyway. Crosby optioned to Toledo already, and Below assigned to minor league camp.

One guy in the pen not being talked about is Luke Putkonen. I know he was Luke PUKE-konen in 2012, but he was at least decent last season -- 3.03 ERA in about 30 IP. So far in spring: 7 IP, 4 hits, 0 walks, 9 Ks, 0 ER. Not gonna be a bullpen savior, but possibly a dependable 7th inning guy.

Well trading for a proven reliever at the deadline will always cost too much! Why cant DD just sign one or two good relievers in the offseason (not just a closer). Much cheaper route. I swear every year it seems like more teams than not have an abundance of pitchers out of the pen with impressive numbers and then the tigers have one or two. Never fails.

 

[burfboy]

Sweet day for Ajax...3/3 with a triple......Alverz looked good out of the pen....they were talking on TV Ajax will hit 6th and Avila #5....