Defensively Speaking

[imac_21]

Rank the players on the Niners defense in terms of importance to the unit.

1. Justin Smith
2. Aldon Smith
3. Patrick Willis
4. Carlos Rogers
5. Ray McDonald
6. The rest.

Frankly, I think a case could be made for Rogers over Willis.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'd probably keep those rankings how they are unless "the rest" includes Sopoaga. In which case I'd put Soap in there behind Aldon and ahead of the VP of Carnage .

 

[imac_21]

I'd probably keep those rankings how they are unless "the rest" includes Sopoaga. In which case I'd put Soap in there behind Aldon and ahead of the VP of Carnage .

The rest does include Sopoaga. So your list would go. . .

1. Justin Smith
2. Aldon Smith
3. Sopoaga
4. Willis
5. Rogers
6. Ray McDonald
7. Everyone else

I was tempted to put Goldson at 6 by himself on my list.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

For players that would hurt us the most if they missed a playoff game:

1. Patrick Willis
2.Carlos Rogers
3. Justin Smith.
4.Aldon Smith.
5.Goldson
5.McDonald
6.Brooks
7.Sop

 

[imac_21]

For players that would hurt us the most if they missed a playoff game:

1. Patrick Willis
2.Carlos Rogers
3. Justin Smith.
4.Aldon Smith.
5.Goldson
5.McDonald
6.Brooks
7.Sop

There's no way I can agree with that. How much did not having Willis hurt us Monday night?

How much would not having Justin Smith hurt us?

But that's a different question. That's incorporating who the current backup is. Presumably if we were to replace one of these guys long term (multiple seasons) we would be using a draft pick or adding a FA.

It's also not just about replacing the numbers the player provides (I think Aldon would be the unquestioned #1 then, how hard would it be to replace those sacks?). I think in terms of what each player brings, J Smith has to be the most valuable. Could we replace Willis' play completely? Of course not, but I think having a good ILB instead of Willis playing behind a DL with J Smith leaves us in better shape than having Willis play behind a DL with a good DE instead of J Smith.

This doesn't necessarily mean that Smith is better than Willis (there's no way Aldon is, a very good case can be made for Justin). It simply about value to the unit.

If we were to look at the same situation offensively, I think losing Staley would hurt more than losing Gore, however, Gore is a considerably better player than Staley. I think losing Snyder would hurt more than losing Gore, but Gore is better than Snyder (of course, this is considering the backups in this case).

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

There's no way I can agree with that. How much did not having Willis hurt us Monday night?

How much would not having Justin Smith hurt us? But that's a different question. That's incorporating who the current backup is. Presumably if we were to replace one of these guys long term (multiple seasons) we would be using a draft pick or adding a FA.

It's also not just about replacing the numbers the player provides (I think Aldon would be the unquestioned #1 then, how hard would it be to replace those sacks?). I think in terms of what each player brings, J Smith has to be the most valuable. Could we replace Willis' play completely? Of course not, but I think having a good ILB instead of Willis playing behind a DL with J Smith leaves us in better shape than having Willis play behind a DL with a good DE instead of J Smith.

This doesn't necessarily mean that Smith is better than Willis (there's no way Aldon is, a very good case can be made for Justin). It simply about value to the unit.

If we were to look at the same situation offensively, I think losing Staley would hurt more than losing Gore, however, Gore is a considerably better player than Staley. I think losing Snyder would hurt more than losing Gore, but Gore is better than Snyder (of course, this is considering the backups in this case).

These questions is bold can in no way be answered. It seems like because our defense has played pretty well with the games Willis has missed, you are now devaluing Willis. We have no way in knowing how we wouldve performed if Justin Smith was out and Patrick Willis was in.


Just looking at the Pittsburgh game, look at the players on the defensive side of the ball that had the biggest impact. For this game alone, where would you rank Justin Smith? For this game, I'd rank the players like this
1. Aldon Smith
2. Carlos Rogers
3. Goldson
4,5, and 6 are all close in my mind between Justin Smith, Brown and Ray Mac

 

[imac_21]

These questions is bold can in no way be answered. It seems like because our defense has played pretty well with the games Willis has missed, you are now devaluing Willis. We have no way in knowing how we wouldve performed if Justin Smith was out and Patrick Willis was in.


Just looking at the Pittsburgh game, look at the players on the defensive side of the ball that had the biggest impact. For this game alone, where would you rank Justin Smith? For this game, I'd rank the players like this
1. Aldon Smith
2. Carlos Rogers
3. Goldson
4,5, and 6 are all close in my mind between Justin Smith, Brown and Ray Mac

You can't even have an opinion? Would you have felt better about answering the question if I prefaced it with "In your opinion. . . " Would you not avoid it then?


Since Justin Smith played a vital role in creating all of Aldon's sacks Monday, I think you have him a little low.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Youre asking questions that dont need to be answered and are obviously bias. How much did not having Willis hurt us? Well obviously not that much because our defense as a whole played well, we gave up 3 points. And thats your argument, one game. Youre saying "see, we played good defense so Willis wasnt missed."

How much would it have hurt us if Justin Smith didnt play and Willis did? I think the result would have been very similar.

 

[imac_21]

Youre asking questions that dont need to be answered and are obviously bias. How much did not having Willis hurt us? Well obviously not that much because our defense as a whole played well, we gave up 3 points. And thats your argument, one game. Youre saying "see, we played good defense so Willis wasnt missed."

How much would it have hurt us if Justin Smith didnt play and Willis did? I think the result would have been very similar.

You're right. I guess it's because you're avoiding the topic of the thread. I'm trying to find questions that you WILL answer.

I could, instead, assume that you are unwilling to answer the original question because when you take the time to think about it you realize Willis isn't as important to the unit as you want to believe he is.

 

[Flyingiguana]

bowman's play seems to have went down a lot since willis went out. grant has been a fine replacement, but willis does so much on the d. heath miller was abusing brooks, but ben couldn't throw the ball.

justin smith is having a monster year but willis is a close 2nd. for the rest i would go rogers, aldon then mcdonald

 

[shouldakepowens]

As much as I want to say willis 1 i can't
1. Justin smith
2. Aldon smith
3. Willis
4. Rogers
5. Sop


Quick question how valuable so you guys think harrison is to pitts d?

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

You're right. I guess it's because you're avoiding the topic of the thread. I'm trying to find questions that you WILL answer.

I could, instead, assume that you are unwilling to answer the original question because when you take the time to think about it you realize Willis isn't as important to the unit as you want to believe he is.

I havent avoided anything here. I have answered the original question. I didnt at first answer the question what we would have looked like on Monday night w/o Justin Smith because no one could possibly give any evidence to support their claim. Its a dumb question that anyone could throw out any answer too.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Aldon Smith over Patrick? No way.

 

[MW49ers5]

You're right. I guess it's because you're avoiding the topic of the thread. I'm trying to find questions that you WILL answer.

I could, instead, assume that you are unwilling to answer the original question because when you take the time to think about it you realize Willis isn't as important to the unit as you want to believe he is.

Could we also not make the same argument that Luck was equally as unimportant to our offensive unit on Monday night?

Wouldn't an equally good question be, how much did not having Andrew Luck hurt us on Monday? And would not the answer be, "not one bit"?

For that matter, what would our record be this year if we had only Willis but did not have Luck?

So, tell me again why you would you get rid of a future HOF'er that, according to you we don't need, for an unknown comodity that we clearly don't need in order to be SB contenders and we certainly don't need to get rid of our future HOF'er for in order to improve our performance?

Once again, we just keep coming back to keeping Willis over Luck as I see it.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Aldon Smith over Patrick? No way.

Agreed. One player is the leader of the defense, is an every down player, has to read plays, play the run, play the pass and receives the plays.

The other player is specifically a pass rusher. He rarely has to worry about the run or even reading plays. His responsibilities are no where near Willis's. He's not an every down player yet at this point in his career and still has some growth to do before we should be bumping him this high.

 

[BINGO]

1.) Patrick Willis
2.) Aldon Smith
3.) Justin Smith
4.) Carlos Rogers
5.) Dashon Goldson
6.) Ray McDonald
7.) Navarro Bowman
8.) Ahmad Brooks
9.) Terrell Brown
10.) Donte Whitner
11.) Isaac Sopoaga / Parys Haralson
12.) The other rookie

 

[CalamityX11]

Question is importance to the unit.

1. Willis - heart & soul of the team. The team has been playing well w/o him but that shouldn't devalue Willis at all. That speaks to the preparation, commitment and confidence of the team as a unit(IMO). Grant hasn't been a liability and has played well thus earning his spot/role on the team. Its a small sample size, but who here would have Grant starting at ILB all season over a healthy Willis?
2. Justin Smith
3a. Carlos Rogers - I have him over Aldon for that he brings some form trust and reliability in the secondary that is needed.
3b. Aldon (finally a freaking pass rusher
5. Andy Lee

 

[tallglassofwater007]

I think you go J. Smith and Willis at 1a and 1b. Grant is a more than capable back up but you can see a difference in the coverage when Grant came in. And in the Pittsburgh game there were more big runs up the middle. I think Bowman didn't look so great in that game, missing a few tackles and I think it showed how valuable Willis is. Bowman had to cover more ground with Grant in there and he wasn't making all of the plays he normally would. And the pass rush has gone quiet for stretches this year. I would say this

1. Willis
2. J. Smith
3. A. Smith- I put him over Rogers cause if he's on then he is making anybody in the secondary that much better. If he is ON I would put him 2.
4. Rogers
5. McDonald

And shouldakepowens... I think Harrison is pretty valuable to their D. He is always making plays and making other teams guys think about going into the area he is at. He would also be pretty valuable to our offense. He's always good for a couple 15 yard penalties in a game.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

I think you go J. Smith and Willis at 1a and 1b. Grant is a more than capable back up but you can see a difference in the coverage when Grant came in. And in the Pittsburgh game there were more big runs up the middle. I think Bowman didn't look so great in that game, missing a few tackles and I think it showed how valuable Willis is. Bowman had to cover more ground with Grant in there and he wasn't making all of the plays he normally would. And the pass rush has gone quiet for stretches this year. I would say this

1. Willis
2. J. Smith
3. A. Smith- I put him over Rogers cause if he's on then he is making anybody in the secondary that much better. If he is ON I would put him 2.
4. Rogers
5. McDonald

And shouldakepowens... I think Harrison is pretty valuable to their D. He is always making plays and making other teams guys think about going into the area he is at. He would also be pretty valuable to our offense. He's always good for a couple 15 yard penalties in a game.

I agree with the bolded part. Give this a long stretch of games and the impact would start to show. Even with all the recognition this year, Justin Smith's importance to the defense is understated. I put him #1. We lose him and we lose a pretty good part of Aldon's pass rush, and teams can actually try to run.

I'd go:
1. Justin Smith
2. Willis
3. Rogers
4. Aldon Smith
5. the rest (Goldson)
6. McDonald

Aldon is now eying #3, and 1-4 are all very close. It's a sizable drop after #4, but McDonald and Goldson have both been awesome.

 

[jordan20_3]

Rank the players on the Niners defense in terms of importance to the unit.

1. Justin Smith #1b
2. Aldon Smith #3
3. Patrick Willis #1
4. Carlos Rogers #4
5. Ray McDonald #2
6. The rest.

Frankly, I think a case could be made for Rogers over Willis.

1. Justin Smith #1b
2. Aldon Smith #3
3. Patrick Willis #1
4. Carlos Rogers #4
5. Ray McDonald #2
6. The rest.